The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

[StrawHat Patriot]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

You didn't like how in previous versions, the moment you hit the endzone everyone would just stand up and stop playing?

Ah, classic old-gen Madden. Running into the touchdown and everybody's power button turned off and they stand still.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I did like the tackle in the endzone, though. Nice momentum by the tackler in the endzone. That happens a lot in the NFL.

I feel you Road and this mini rant is not directed at you but whatever good does not justify the bad on this one, imo.. It is nice to see tackle improvements but disappointing that even after implementing an entirely new physics engine that has highlighted a first year accomplishment of effecting tackles, they still don't have some basic tackle animations addressed. With Infinity being described as controlling the existing animations, there is nothing the engine can do if the proper animations are not available, in this case attempted arm tackles and defender reaching for ball carriers.

I get that the decision was made to implement IE before upgrading all the needed animations, cool but if they are going to tout its' effects on tackles, it just seems logical to add more or address the tackle animations too. For example with the new passing game they added 430 new catch animations to coincide with the pass trajectories, "look" mechanic, etc. Imagine if they had added all the new passing upgrades without new catch animations, they overall effect would have been greatly diminished.

I really don't want this to get glanced over like it's no big deal because this seems to be a small fix, that could have a big impact on game play. Hopefully Sage can make a few animated gifs to illustrate the point but in Madden 13 videos defenders in the open field are sometimes running right by or beside ball carriers without attempting to reach out to grab them, which is totally unrealistic. I have noticed Bezo, LBz and others saying that same thing about engaged defenders but this is the first time I have ever thought of it in the context of unblocked defenders in the open field. This game needs some basic arm tackle attempt animations and defenders reaching for the ball carrier, which would seemingly compliment IE perfectly because it should calculate the proper effect of the minimal contact. It wouldn't address the underline issue of foot planting, treadmill running, etc but it should definitely make tackling play out more realistic without taking away any User control.

[Big FN Deal]

Here is what I am talking about;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N6DndXeFAI

This video illustrates how in Madden it has to either be a wrap tackle attempt or a whiff, no true arm tackle attempts to speak of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AyWLtterFA

This an engaged arm tackle in a real collegiate game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-ZyNN4yy1c

This is an exaggerated arm tackle from BB but at least they were in there.

I am not suggesting that players be clothes lined all over the field like NFL Blitz but adding attempted arm tackles and defenders reaching for the ball carrier animations is a necessity in Madden.

EDIT- Had to find it but this video is a perfect example of what I mean by the arm tackling and reaching animations that need to be in Madden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APSxK...layer_embedded

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Here is what I am talking about; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N6DndXeFAI This video illustrates how in Madden it has to either be a wrap tackle attempt or a whiff, no true arm tackle attempts to speak of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AyWLtterFA This an engaged arm tackle in a real collegiate game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-ZyNN4yy1c This is an exaggerated arm tackle from BB but at least they were in there. I am not suggesting that players be clothes lined all over the field like NFL Blitz but adding attempted arm tackles and defenders reaching for the ball carrier animations is a necessity in Madden. EDIT- Had to find it but this video is a perfect example of what I mean by the arm tackling and reaching animations that need to be in Madden. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APSxK...layer_embedded

Oh, yeah, definitely, I agree with you.

You know, that first one, near the goaline, I would have never picked up on that if it was replayed a few times and slowed down.

That is the exact same thing our son is accusing me of. lol

[jfsolo]

Before I retired from making wish lists(there are more than enough people who represent my wishes fighting the good fight), I would list in every one of them, that hundreds of additional animations should be added for each and every position on the field.

A lot are added in sports games every year, ten times as many are still needed. I keep waiting for a new technological breakthrough to occur that would make it less cost prohibitive to exponentially increase the number of animation in a given year. This is for all sports games, in every sub genre.

[shaunlmason]

Quote: Originally Posted by bukktown

Watching that over and over I can't say for sure that it's just L-stick movement or a quick inside juke ala last gens "tap R1" juke.

I'm pretty sure it's a swerve.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Oh, yeah, definitely, I agree with you. You know, that first one, near the goaline, I would have never picked up on that if it was replayed a few times and slowed down. That is the exact same thing our son is accusing me of. lol

I agree with you and I didn't even think it was relevant to arm tackling at first glance. However, even in full speed, like the guy in the video stated, it's still obvious "something wasn't quite right about it". That seems to be a theme in Madden, even when you can't easily put your finger on the specific issue, somethings just don't look right.

Hopefully a tackle like that in M13 results in the IE effecting the defenders limbs in such away that the process is more realistic and the ball carrier falls into the endzone but there is nothing the IE can do about defenders running by, behind and beside ball carriers without proper arm tackle attempts and defender reaching animations. It seems like another potential oversight on attention to detail because they likely feel they "nailed it" on the tackling with the IE and are focused on other areas. This is the type of thing that seems to occur consistently with next-gen Madden and is one of the areas I feel the EAGCs along with CE attendees can truly have an impact on, meaning with attention to detail and polish.

[slick589]

Hate to bring it up but apf2k8 had the reach tackle mechanic where engaged guys would reach out if you pressed the direction on the right stick. I think it would go a long way to making madden more realistic especially since once guys get blocked they tend to stay blocked.