The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

If they would have done line interaction 1st then you would have people screaming about no physics. Lose/lose scenario. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Not really. No one was even aware of a new physics engine coming or that we would get one in this current gen, but they were very aware of line play needing to be fixed.

I also now understand that maybe it could not go that route due to the fact that a solid physics engine needs to be in place , so we can have solid line interaction.

Hey before you know it we will be weeks away from E3 2013 and looking at the new line play for 14.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

If they would have done line interaction 1st then you would have people screaming about no physics. Lose/lose scenario. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

As they buy the game because now JPP and Aldon Smith can shred scrub tackles and human walls on the offensive line create a virtual wall for their QB?

Line play + Read and React = I buy M13.

No lie.

I imagine many others would be just as happy with it, especially with EA blowing it out marketing-wise and re-highlight the fact they brought in a former NFL OL to help, etc, etc.

Not saying physics isn't going to do anything for the game, but I think those two features would have removed much of the problems many had with M12 (bad line play and psychic defenders).

[Broncos86]

Line play addressed but no physics = band aid.

Physics integrated with line play in the pipe = long term solution that benefits every faucet of the game.

I'll take #2.

[StrawHat Patriot]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Line play addressed but no physics = band aid. Physics integrated with line play in the pipe = long term solution that benefits every faucet of the game. I'll take #2.

true. But I think Big FN Deal mentioned that if they had addressed Line play and Running Animations, while simply addressing tackling with better animations, than I think people would've been happier than they are now with just the Infinity Engine, which I've been hearing doesn't affect gameplay that much from what I've heard recently.

[Broncos86]

Quote: Originally Posted by StrawHat Patriot

true. But I think Big FN Deal mentioned that if they had addressed Line play and Running Animations, while simply addressing tackling with better animations, than I think people would've been happier than they are now with just the Infinity Engine, which I've been hearing doesn't affect gameplay that much from what I've heard recently.

Yeah, I understand that. And though I may get flogged, I like the foundation that Infinity lays down. And I feel good knowing that the underlying tech is going to be something that will be more durable and robust. I'd prefer the effort go towards that than giving us a one-year band-aid. But that's just me.

[roadman]

Lot's of if's and many we won't know.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Line play addressed but no physics = band aid. Physics integrated with line play in the pipe = long term solution that benefits every faucet of the game. I'll take #2.

I don't think that's true. I think they could just as easily write the line logic with physics in mind. It is not a band aid to do it that way. I haven't seen anything that would suggest a developer needs physics to get adequate line play progressions in place. They do need a great catalog of animations. With the way EA is deploying physics in Madden it is not governing movement yet, if it ever will. Look at the way physics was incorporated this year. Are you saying that they couldn't do read and react defense and all the other things they did this year responsibly without physics? I would disagree with that completely. NCAA and Madden both have 430 + new catching animations. The only difference is one game will use physics calculations to manipulate and control the animations whereas the other one will not. It's still 430 + animations. There can be no more room for making exceptions for them. I don't see anything that suggests that line play logic and progressions cannot be written without physics. I'm not a programmer, but there are a lot of folks on this board who are and who are in the video game industry that I'm sure would say, no, you don't need the one before the other or else it is a band aid; especially with the way physics will be functioning in Madden at this early stage.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Yeah, I understand that. And though I may get flogged, I like the foundation that Infinity lays down. And I feel good knowing that the underlying tech is going to be something that will be more durable and robust. I'd prefer the effort go towards that than giving us a one-year band-aid. But that's just me.

Hmmm, the impression I got from the interviews and discussions from the physics team was that the infinity engine was a layer on top of the existing animation engine. So to me, wouldn't it have made more sense to get the player interactions and logic for the line play right first? I guess from an implementation standpoint it doesn't really matter, since the IE is not preventing them from changing what's underneath it. It's just that it really lessens the effect that IE has because the player movement and interaction is so bad. Line play and movement shouldn't even need to be specifically marketed, it should just be implied as part of an NFL simulation. What can be marketed is the realistic experience these parts that come together can deliver.

There really isn't an excuse as to why the gameplay team couldn't address player movement and line play in M13 along with the incremental improvements they made. A doubled gameplay team implemented QB drop backs (for the umpteenth time), read and react (great, but a whole year ?) and passing trajectories? We all know they spent longer than 9 months working on a lot of this too which is what's really scary. Then they said they "tuned" (everyone's favorite mythical word) the running and line play - which was already proven was a complete load of bull because it's exactly the same.

Regardless - when you think what you have is already good and you live in your own little vacuum, you don't see why it's a fail to deliver half built, sub standard elements.

All of this can be fixed. Stop with these small, incremental changes that are not even done well to begin with and make a big jump. If the team can produce a game that really nails down the gameplay elements and the realism factor, most of us will forget about all of the hot garbage they've delivered the last 9 years. However, in order to make that jump, you need to be both capable and willing. Neither of which seem to be apparent.