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If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

EA Sports had a clear opening opening with NBA Live 14, and they didn’t even realize it.

NBA 2K14 fumbled its launch about as much as 2K Sports could manage, which is to say — there are still some problems, a few of which are quite serious which consumers are facing, but the game is largely quite good.

Connectivity issues, save file issues with MyCAREER, crashes, and some old legacy gameplay issues are hampering the product at this point. A patch has fixed some issues, but many remain it appears.

In all reality, there is a lot you can find wrong with NBA 2K14 if you look hard enough.

The biggest thing is of course, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that there is no need for a competitor. In fact, a few of the things 2K14 doesn’t do so well such as co-op seasons and a more traditional set of game modes, much less what is still one of the most complex control schemes in sports gaming, gave EA Sports every opportunity to step up to the plate and deliver something new and fresh along with familiar and comfortable.

And then came NBA Live 14. A game which needed only to be stable, solid, and ok in order to be considered a success wasn’t.

It’s a rare thing to have a AAA game releasing which doesn’t necessarily need to be great to be considered a success, it’s rarer still that such low expectations in place simply aren’t met on any level.

There are numerous and maddening questions which must be asked of why EA's basketball product, which has had several years come forth out of development, simply hasn’t come close to being a game which is an acceptable $60 purchase.

No one expected Live 14 was going to live up to the standard NBA 2K has set over the years. No one outside of camp EA even had illusions the game was going to be seen as an equal in quality — I personally wrote several times Live 14 simply needed to get a good and solid foundation of gameplay and online play right to be viable.

Neither happened.

There have been key areas of mismanagement which plague the NBA Live series, and until each is fixed individually, this series has no future.

Mismanaged Expectations

In an interview with the SportsBusiness Daily, EA CEO Andrew Wilson (and former head of EA Sports and ultimately the one responsible for the Live product) said the following:  “The game is releasing. It is happening, and this is very gratifying. We did ourselves absolutely no favors, but it was still the right decision in both instances. We’ve now built a great game, shifting focus entirely to the next-generation consoles, and are looking forward to getting back out there and competing in the marketplace. But we also know it will be a multiyear process.”

That quote was handed down on November 18, 2013, one day before the game released.

That was also one day before the reviews of the ‘great game’ which was ‘gratifying’ began to Metacritic in the 30s or 40s, depending on your platform.

In an interview with Review Fix, executive producer Sean O’Brien said when asked how he’d like NBA Live 14 to be remembered, “…that we stayed focused and delivered on our vision that NBA LIVE 14 is great basketball video game for the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. If we do that, I feel we’ve made progress in returning the NBA LIVE franchise and establishing a strong foundation for the future.”

When asked on Twitter if Live 14 had a chance against NBA 2K14, O’Brien answered, “of course.”

Reading these quotes, one of two things must be true: Either EA knew they were sitting on an absolutely horrible game and people promoting it publicly were lying about its condition or, perhaps worse, they actually thought the game was good.

Neither of the above scenarios promotes the idea that the future of the EA basketball product actually rests in viability and any future efforts, if there are to be any, must have radical differences to how the promotion and expectations of the game is handled.

The truth is, the act of trying to be authentic and real with fans has to go away, replaced by what is actual and real authenticity. EA cannot say or imply they are releasing a great basketball game which can compete in the marketplace if the game you are producing is simply not going to make it there.

EA’s number one task this year was to release a product which manages to build trust with what would be their future core audience on the new generation of consoles — one could make the argument, compellingly, that EA not only didn’t do that, but they actually have irreparably ruined trust forever when it comes to their basketball product.

If NBA Live is to have a future as a series, one thing has to happen and it has to happen quickly — there has to be an open and honest dialogue about the game like we’ve never seen before from EA on any previous product. Consumers have to be let in to the entire process, and we have to see the game being built — and we have to see the current mess fixed.

The only way EA is going to gain enough trust to have anything more than a few misguided parents plopping $60 down on this game next year is to get people involved like never before in a AAA title. Anything less and people are simply not going to trust the company’s basketball efforts.

Mismanaged Foundation

Perhaps the most puzzling move of the entire EA Sports Basketball debacle was the series of decisions after the release of NBA Live 10.

In NBA Live 10, EA Sports had just released a product which not only competed but in many ways bested 2Ks effort that same year. Everything seemed to finally be working right, and EA basketball was on track for a better tomorrow.

And gamers? Well gamers were set to enjoy what was going to be a fantastic future of basketball gaming.

The answer to that successful year, of course, was to completely scrap the game, the name, the foundational gameplay and start all over — at least, that’s what EA chose to do.

One has to wonder what led to those sorts of decisions being made after NBA Live 10 had such a successful release — it’s not the first or only time a company has done something as foolish, but such decisions are usually made out of desperation or legal position weakness, not from strategically minded and confident positions that EA should have found themselves in.

Think about it this way, had NBA Live 14 been built off of the NBA Live 10 engine, this year’s game could probably have done no worse than a 60% on Metacritic. Theoretically of course, but it's hard to imagine such a solid game which improved visuals and some subtle gameplay enhancements not getting received warmly by at least some.

Such a game was exactly the type of effort Live needed to produce too. Instead, from what we know, the series has been scrapped and code based dumped no less than twice since the last NBA Live release in late 2009.

This mismanagement has set the product back valuable years on getting the core basketball experience right while the competition continues to refine even the finest parts of the game of basketball.

As I said earlier in this column, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that competition is not needed — and now with Live 14 releasing with so many fundamental basketball gaffes — one has to wonder where any of the old Live 10 code went off to.

NBA Live product has to develop a competent foundation which can be built off of for the game of basketball. This process has to start immediately with important and much needed fixes to their current product which our own Jayson Young has outlined in the How To Fix NBA Live 14 article.

Mismanaged Vision

There was one common thread between NBA Elite 11 and NBA Live 14: both were banking on a dribbling engine being the thing which made gamers want to play their product over the 2K series.

And while yes, dribbling is an incredibly important piece of basketball — Live 14’s execution of a new dribbling system is actually inferior to 2K14’s improved dribbling mechanics. Focusing on such a narrow window of gameplay to best the competition on, and then losing in that small area is a recipe for disaster (which Live 14 currently is).

And granted, I’m writing this piece from the comfort of my home as a gaming and sports journalist, but the vision behind Live 14 and the Live series in particular, has been horribly flawed over the past several years.

Live 14 does something incredibly well, it has an amazing amount of strategic depth which could easily be leveraged if a competent game of basketball could be played on the court. Another thing Live 14 could have leveraged was an easier to pick up and master game of basketball — instead the game was perhaps more convoluted than 2K14 when it comes to mastering the intricacies of the game.

Even Ultimate Team feels mailed in with Live 14, with scant features compared to other offerings from EA.

Going forward, NBA Live can have a future but developers have to bring a vision which matches what is already in place. The game’s focus on strategic depth is something which should be expanded upon, but going forward the game has to find a way to differentiate itself from 2K14.

Becoming even more complex and convoluted is not the answer. I believe the game would benefit from a simpler approach with controls to allow the game to appear to play a much better game of basketball.

It is very possible the intense effort to try to get so many different controls and transistions perfect led to the gameplay being unnecessarily complex and thus the focus of development with the on-court action was so diffuse that we didn’t get a solid core of basketball.

If Live 15 exists, the game needs to be simplified and it needs to see the strategic options expanded upon in a way which guides the gamer into and through the in-game strategic options.

Live 15 will have to deliver a game which plays the basics of basketball well along with strategic depth which the game not only explains but actually presents in a compelling manner, there would be an angle EA could run with on the court.

Ultimately, the answer in establishing a vision for the NBA Live series is a simpler game of basketball which literally is built for fans by fans. Which brings us full circle.

The Future of EA Basketball

It’s simple: EA has a lot of fixes and about faces to do and a lot of medicine to take in order to secure a future in basketball.

An open and honest discussion about where the series is and where it is heading is the best possible course of action. At this point, you will gain more consumer goodwill by that than you will lose strategic advantage over the competition.

It is 2013, almost 2014. Openness and honesty, as well as authenticity and access are rewarded by consumers by loyalty when it comes time to check out. Imagine if fans were allowed access and an open window into the Live 15 development cycle and we were all updated on what was worked on and what the team is up to. Imagine what kind of good will could be created if at the same time, we were shown how the developers were real NBA fans who actually love basketball.

NBA Live has to be considered a desperate endeavor at this point — meaning that the company has literally nothing to lose if it is committed to delivering another basketball product.

I am not willing to give up on the Live franchise, as I believe the more sports games we have on the market, the better we all are. I also believe there is room for a second basketball title, but that opening comes with an expiration date which is approaching fast.

Doing things the traditional way isn’t going to result in EA basketball being viable in the future. No matter what EA does, they are not going to succeed with NBA Live 15 if they simply do what they've always done and control the conversation and have it be a one way conversation.

I see little way for the game to improve enough to justify that approach and what little trust potential fans had is now gone after the disastrous NBA Live 14.

To be cliche for a second: desperate times do call for desperate measures — and doing things radically different with a theoretical NBA Live 15 might be so crazy, it just might work.


NBA Live 14 Videos
Member Comments
# 161 The 24th Letter @ 12/11/13 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonWuan
You looked up someone's twitter? I must be getting old (27). Speaks volume's


Once again I do agree with OP.

Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk
People 27 and over shouldn't access twitter?
 
# 162 DonWuan @ 12/11/13 09:34 AM
Of course they can its built for old people.

Just kidding. But I will keep my thoughts to myself.



Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk
 
# 163 JoeDog10 @ 12/11/13 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundown
I played the Live demo and thought it looked and felt like an abomination, but that there were some promising animations.

I played it again later with a friend and discovered how terrible the actual basketball is with hop step cheese. Still, some of the animations looked kind of okay in moments if I didn't concentrate too hard.

I played it one more time while waiting for a 2K patch to download-- I was curious about Synergy updates and just wanted to mess around mindlessly for a few minutes. I wasn't even sure on the positives I saw previously. It looked worse AND played worse than even I remembered even when I wasn't trying overly hard to be critical. It's a bad looking, bad playing, bad feeling basketball game that doesn't even appear to be as good as Live 10.


No it doesn't.

Unless hopstep circus layups with Andrew Bynum is good basketball.

Terrible defense, horrible dribbling model, off-ball AI that does nothing (is this a demo only thing?), AI defenders that seem disinterested in contesting, AI forgetting to shoot the ball when quarters run down, zero explosiveness in player movement, not to mention all the bad animations that equal a bad simulation of player interactions.

A lot of the 2K issues can at least be mitigated by sliders and difficulty levels even though momentum has always been too strong in the game. But when the most effective move is to hopstep repeatedly regardless of player or handles, Live does not look or play like any semblance of good basketball. With all due respect, it seems that your frustration and familiarity with 2K's flaws have completely blinded you to everything that is more poorly done in Live in almost every aspect of the game outside of a few nice pass animations.
Sundown, you make a lot of good points here.

Live is strictly a single player game for me, so the hop step cheese doesn't ruin the game for me. Could I exploit it against the CPU every time down and get to the basket with ease? Yeah, pretty much. But I only use it in realistic situations, so this doesn't even bother me. I'm enjoying the game a lot playing against the CPU, but I couldn't imagine playing against someone in the same room or online. It wouldn't be pretty.

I don't play the demo anymore so I can't compare the demo and the retail version, but I can tell you that on the retail version, the players no longer just stand around on offense anymore. The "Automotion" option wasn't available in the demo, and I'm guessing that's probably the reason why. The offenses move well and play pretty realistically, and the spacing on the court is really evident.

The biggest problem I'm seeing after having spent a lot of time with game is the points in the paint. It's not always a problem, but I'd say maybe 3 out of every 5 games or so. Going back to the point you made about "hop step circus layups with Andrew Bynum", there are certain stretches of the game where you see that happening. And that's because you really can't "body up" someone in the post once they have the ball. So a lot of times, it results in an easy bucket for the CPU and it's usually an ugly animation too, LOL.

I guess any video game is what you make of it. But, I do think Live plays a good game of single player basketball. It's far from perfect, but it's also not nearly as bad as so many people make it out to be. It's stopped me from playing 2K outside of human vs. human games.
 
# 164 Slater James @ 12/11/13 01:08 PM
Live is really in a miraculous place if you think about it. This series should be stone dead. But the other game has somehow managed to keep gamers looking for an alternative. All EA has do is put out a solid game and they could actually force their way back into the conversation. The opportunity for them to reclaim their place is as open as its ever been.

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# 165 KG @ 12/11/13 01:16 PM
I don't understand why they released a demo without Synergy AND Automotion? Seems like self-sabotage. It's one thing to release a demo that has a few bugs, it's another thing to release it w/o major gameplay features.
 
# 166 alexthegreat @ 12/11/13 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater James
Live is really in a miraculous place if you think about it. This series should be stone dead. But the other game has somehow managed to keep gamers looking for an alternative. All EA has do is put out a solid game and they could actually force their way back into the conversation. The opportunity for them to reclaim their place is as open as its ever been.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk
 
# 167 shutdown10 @ 12/11/13 01:31 PM
The only agenda I have on this forum is to make sure EA is not let off the hook anymore with poor efforts like this one. If they cannot make a sound basketball game, then allow another company to take their place in the basketball market to compete with the other company.
 
# 168 Boilerbuzz @ 12/11/13 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater James
Live is really in a miraculous place if you think about it. This series should be stone dead. But the other game has somehow managed to keep gamers looking for an alternative. All EA has do is put out a solid game and they could actually force their way back into the conversation. The opportunity for them to reclaim their place is as open as its ever been.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk
Hit the wrong button. Do not like this post because I don't think it's true. "The other game" has pissed of many folks. But FEW of them see Live as an alternative. Those that do consider it quickly go back. But that is only a SMALL number of "hardcore" users and their parrots. People need to realize how small an audience forum posters represent. Sad, but true.

Also, EA has to do much more than just a "solid" game. People act like a few weeks of a rough next gen launch, which is VERY common, equates to multiple years of underachievement, to downright no release at all from the Live series. Joe Schmoe does not trust EA, let alone the Live franchise.

And this "reclaim their place" talk baffles me. It screams of the EA arrogance that is so pervasive in their marketing. As if being the top brand is their entitlement. And some fans buy right into it. I think that's why they don't do **** with their games. They didn't deserve the status and they need to learn how to really earn it in ALL of their titles.


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# 169 El_Poopador @ 12/11/13 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutdown10
The only agenda I have on this forum is to make sure EA is not let off the hook anymore with poor efforts like this one. If they cannot make a sound basketball game, then allow another company to take their place in the basketball market to compete with the other company.
there is nothing stopping any other company from making a basketball game so that doesnt really make any sense.
 
# 170 Boilerbuzz @ 12/11/13 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Poopador
there is nothing stopping any other company from making a basketball game so that doesnt really make any sense.
Uh... Yes there is. It's called business sense. It's FAR to expensive to make a game of this scope this day and age. And with the market dominated as it is, good luck making any of that money back. It's easy to sit there and say it's easy to do something if your money and livelihood isn't on the line, huh.


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# 171 blackceasar @ 12/11/13 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG
I don't understand why they released a demo without Synergy AND Automotion? Seems like self-sabotage. It's one thing to release a demo that has a few bugs, it's another thing to release it w/o major gameplay features.
It's called Board Members and Share Holders and Bonuses and Stock Options.

The people at the top don't really understand the business of video games. They understand the business of making money. They wanted the demo out to get people pumped about the game that came out at launch. Yes I know you have a point with saying the demo got no one pumped but what I'm saying is the people who are pushing these dates are NOT the people developing the game, which is what happens when a publisher gets TOO BIG and gets really top heavy with people with MBA's and have never even probably had a genuine interest in the video game market at all. To them EA and EA Sports is just a company they are a part of. They could work there, or work for Apply, or Sony, or Dyson Vacum Cleaners, or Whirlpool, you get the trend. Its not about the product for them, its about the business and their MBA's give blinds them to the fact that your product affects your business.
 
# 172 blackceasar @ 12/11/13 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater James
Live is really in a miraculous place if you think about it. This series should be stone dead. But the other game has somehow managed to keep gamers looking for an alternative. All EA has do is put out a solid game and they could actually force their way back into the conversation. The opportunity for them to reclaim their place is as open as its ever been.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk
This SOUNDS GOOD in PRINCIPLE. But the reality is that if they put out a good game and take advantage of the opening 2k left (this year) it wouldnt be because of how EA treats their Live franchise.. it would be in spite of how EA treats their live franchise.

Truth is, the reason why the Live franchise has been OUT of the conversation are the same reasons why they wont get back IN the conversation. It doesnt take 2k to put out a buggy broken basketball game (this year) for Live to actually do well. All Live needs to do is do Live Well and Live will DO WELL. Make sense? What I'm getting at is it's probably not the devs and the soldiers working on the game that have to change first.. the first change has to start at the top, well above the pay grade of the people working 80 hours a week there.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "miraculous" place... EA has a TON of money.. enough to buy an NFL License.. its not like bad sales of live (or that Elite 11) travesty would stop them from making a game. They have money and resources to publish Live every year regardless of what happens with the "other game".

You are romanticising something that just doesnt need it.
 
# 173 El_Poopador @ 12/11/13 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
Uh... Yes there is. It's called business sense. It's FAR to expensive to make a game of this scope this day and age. And with the market dominated as it is, good luck making any of that money back. It's easy to sit there and say it's easy to do something if your money and livelihood isn't on the line, huh.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
i was speaking in context of the post i quoted.

Quote:
The only agenda I have on this forum is to make sure EA is not let off the hook anymore with poor efforts like this one. If they cannot make a sound basketball game, then allow another company to take their place in the basketball market to compete with the other company.
let me rephrase my reply to that:

there is nothing that ea is doing that would prevent any other company from making a basketball game.
 
# 174 jyoung @ 12/11/13 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDog10
Live is strictly a single player game for me, so the hop step cheese doesn't ruin the game for me.
Even if you have the self-discipline not to use the hop step, the computer players will still use it all the time to clip through your defense and get cheesy layups.

So yes, it ruins the single player modes, too.
 
# 175 shutdown10 @ 12/11/13 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Poopador
i was speaking in context of the post i quoted.



let me rephrase my reply to that:

there is nothing that ea is doing that would prevent any other company from making a basketball game.
No other company has made an NBA sim basketball game in the past 4 years instead of 2k and EA sports. Both those companies have taken a large share of that market, so a third company is not going to come in a over-saturated market that has two games taking all the licenses, market share, and sales from consumers. Sony's last basketball game was in 09, but they axed the title because of low sales and the inability to expand on their game with resources basically taken by the other two companies. Even though EA did not come out with a basketball title for 3 years, they still had their paws on that EA license and still had a contract with the NBA to produce Nba games every year. Do you understand that the contract with the NBA and Espn could have been put to good use elsewhere? EA not putting a game out for three years shortened the market to one NBA basketball game because they still held on to the NBA contract and licenses which are expensive. No other company was going to come in and try to make a basketball game under those circumstances with EA and 2k hogging most of the resources.
 
# 176 El_Poopador @ 12/11/13 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutdown10
No other company has made a NBA sim basketball game in the past 4 years instead of 2k and EA sports. Both those companies have taken a large share of that market, so a third company is not going to come in a over-saturated market that is has two games taking all the licenses, market share, and sales from consumers. Sony's last basketball game was in 09, but they axed the title because they were not able to expand on their game with resources basically taken by the other two companies. Even though EA did not come with a basketball title for 3 years, they still had their paws on that EA license and had and still had a contract with the NBA to produce Nba games every year. Do you understand that the contract with the NBA and Espn could have been put to good use elsewhere? EA not putting a game out for three years shortened the market to one NBA basketball game because they still held on to the NBA contract and licenses which are expensive. No other company was going to come in and try to make a basketball game under those circumstances with EA and 2k hogging most of the resources.
that makes no sense. the only possible argument you provided was the espn license. but there are plenty of other stations that can be utilized (tnt fox etc.). or they could go with a generic package like 2k has done.

again my argument is that ea is doing nothing to prevent any company from making a game if they wanted. just because they might have a contract with the nba doesnt mean that another company couldnt do the same if they chose to. if they dont want to get into the market then thats their own decision but dont make it sound like they are blocked because of something ea is doing. if i wanted to put the time and resources into making an nba game i could do it.
 
# 177 JoeDog10 @ 12/11/13 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyoung
Even if you have the self-discipline not to use the hop step, the computer players will still use it all the time to clip through your defense and get cheesy layups.

So yes, it ruins the single player modes, too.
It ruins it for you. I clearly said that it didn't ruin it "for me" while acknowledging the CPU does use the hop step and it gets annoying at times.

I'm done posting in this particular thread. I'm well aware that I shouldn't be enjoying this game. But I'll stick to the impressions thread where there are a handful of other people that are enjoying it.
 
# 178 shutdown10 @ 12/11/13 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Poopador
that makes no sense. the only possible argument you provided was the espn license. but there are plenty of other stations that can be utilized (tnt fox etc.). or they could go with a generic package like 2k has done.

again my argument is that ea is doing nothing to prevent any company from making a game if they wanted. just because they might have a contract with the nba doesnt mean that another company couldnt do the same if they chose to. if they dont want to get into the market then thats their own decision but dont make it sound like they are blocked because of something ea is doing. if i wanted to put the time and resources into making an nba game i could do it.

I don't think you read my whole post carefully. I said EA and 2K basically have the available licenses locked up at the moment, not only EA. 2k has commentators who are contracted with TNT, so the they have that license. Fox is not in NBA basketball, so that would be false license marketing. Give me one license that is available at the moment for a new company to come in and use? Please don't use networks that are not invested in NBA basketball.
 
# 179 WTF @ 12/11/13 04:01 PM
Fox Sports Network

I know Fox Sports Indiana carries the Pacers games, FSOhio carries Cavs games, etc etc etc.

Fox Sports is in the NBA. It goes under FSN.
 
# 180 El_Poopador @ 12/11/13 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutdown10
I don't think you read my whole post carefully. I said EA and 2K basically have the available licenses locked up at the moment, not only EA. 2k has commentators who are contracted with TNT, so the they have that license. Fox is not in NBA basketball, so that would be false license marketing. Give me one license that is available at the moment for a new company to come in and use? Please don't use networks that are not invested in NBA basketball.
i was referring to fox sports. one of the greatest parts about the pc version of nba 2k is the modding community. plenty of different scorebugs (like tnt and fox sports) to replace the generic one that 2k uses. and again they dont even need an official license as 2k has done just fine without one. as far as commentary there are plenty of options out there. ea and 2k have a combined five commentators in their game. are you trying to tell me there are only five people who broadcast nba games?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ers#ESPN.2FABC

theres a list of all the possible real life broadcasters.
 


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