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If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

EA Sports had a clear opening opening with NBA Live 14, and they didn’t even realize it.

NBA 2K14 fumbled its launch about as much as 2K Sports could manage, which is to say — there are still some problems, a few of which are quite serious which consumers are facing, but the game is largely quite good.

Connectivity issues, save file issues with MyCAREER, crashes, and some old legacy gameplay issues are hampering the product at this point. A patch has fixed some issues, but many remain it appears.

In all reality, there is a lot you can find wrong with NBA 2K14 if you look hard enough.

The biggest thing is of course, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that there is no need for a competitor. In fact, a few of the things 2K14 doesn’t do so well such as co-op seasons and a more traditional set of game modes, much less what is still one of the most complex control schemes in sports gaming, gave EA Sports every opportunity to step up to the plate and deliver something new and fresh along with familiar and comfortable.

And then came NBA Live 14. A game which needed only to be stable, solid, and ok in order to be considered a success wasn’t.

It’s a rare thing to have a AAA game releasing which doesn’t necessarily need to be great to be considered a success, it’s rarer still that such low expectations in place simply aren’t met on any level.

There are numerous and maddening questions which must be asked of why EA's basketball product, which has had several years come forth out of development, simply hasn’t come close to being a game which is an acceptable $60 purchase.

No one expected Live 14 was going to live up to the standard NBA 2K has set over the years. No one outside of camp EA even had illusions the game was going to be seen as an equal in quality — I personally wrote several times Live 14 simply needed to get a good and solid foundation of gameplay and online play right to be viable.

Neither happened.

There have been key areas of mismanagement which plague the NBA Live series, and until each is fixed individually, this series has no future.

Mismanaged Expectations

In an interview with the SportsBusiness Daily, EA CEO Andrew Wilson (and former head of EA Sports and ultimately the one responsible for the Live product) said the following:  “The game is releasing. It is happening, and this is very gratifying. We did ourselves absolutely no favors, but it was still the right decision in both instances. We’ve now built a great game, shifting focus entirely to the next-generation consoles, and are looking forward to getting back out there and competing in the marketplace. But we also know it will be a multiyear process.”

That quote was handed down on November 18, 2013, one day before the game released.

That was also one day before the reviews of the ‘great game’ which was ‘gratifying’ began to Metacritic in the 30s or 40s, depending on your platform.

In an interview with Review Fix, executive producer Sean O’Brien said when asked how he’d like NBA Live 14 to be remembered, “…that we stayed focused and delivered on our vision that NBA LIVE 14 is great basketball video game for the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. If we do that, I feel we’ve made progress in returning the NBA LIVE franchise and establishing a strong foundation for the future.”

When asked on Twitter if Live 14 had a chance against NBA 2K14, O’Brien answered, “of course.”

Reading these quotes, one of two things must be true: Either EA knew they were sitting on an absolutely horrible game and people promoting it publicly were lying about its condition or, perhaps worse, they actually thought the game was good.

Neither of the above scenarios promotes the idea that the future of the EA basketball product actually rests in viability and any future efforts, if there are to be any, must have radical differences to how the promotion and expectations of the game is handled.

The truth is, the act of trying to be authentic and real with fans has to go away, replaced by what is actual and real authenticity. EA cannot say or imply they are releasing a great basketball game which can compete in the marketplace if the game you are producing is simply not going to make it there.

EA’s number one task this year was to release a product which manages to build trust with what would be their future core audience on the new generation of consoles — one could make the argument, compellingly, that EA not only didn’t do that, but they actually have irreparably ruined trust forever when it comes to their basketball product.

If NBA Live is to have a future as a series, one thing has to happen and it has to happen quickly — there has to be an open and honest dialogue about the game like we’ve never seen before from EA on any previous product. Consumers have to be let in to the entire process, and we have to see the game being built — and we have to see the current mess fixed.

The only way EA is going to gain enough trust to have anything more than a few misguided parents plopping $60 down on this game next year is to get people involved like never before in a AAA title. Anything less and people are simply not going to trust the company’s basketball efforts.

Mismanaged Foundation

Perhaps the most puzzling move of the entire EA Sports Basketball debacle was the series of decisions after the release of NBA Live 10.

In NBA Live 10, EA Sports had just released a product which not only competed but in many ways bested 2Ks effort that same year. Everything seemed to finally be working right, and EA basketball was on track for a better tomorrow.

And gamers? Well gamers were set to enjoy what was going to be a fantastic future of basketball gaming.

The answer to that successful year, of course, was to completely scrap the game, the name, the foundational gameplay and start all over — at least, that’s what EA chose to do.

One has to wonder what led to those sorts of decisions being made after NBA Live 10 had such a successful release — it’s not the first or only time a company has done something as foolish, but such decisions are usually made out of desperation or legal position weakness, not from strategically minded and confident positions that EA should have found themselves in.

Think about it this way, had NBA Live 14 been built off of the NBA Live 10 engine, this year’s game could probably have done no worse than a 60% on Metacritic. Theoretically of course, but it's hard to imagine such a solid game which improved visuals and some subtle gameplay enhancements not getting received warmly by at least some.

Such a game was exactly the type of effort Live needed to produce too. Instead, from what we know, the series has been scrapped and code based dumped no less than twice since the last NBA Live release in late 2009.

This mismanagement has set the product back valuable years on getting the core basketball experience right while the competition continues to refine even the finest parts of the game of basketball.

As I said earlier in this column, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that competition is not needed — and now with Live 14 releasing with so many fundamental basketball gaffes — one has to wonder where any of the old Live 10 code went off to.

NBA Live product has to develop a competent foundation which can be built off of for the game of basketball. This process has to start immediately with important and much needed fixes to their current product which our own Jayson Young has outlined in the How To Fix NBA Live 14 article.

Mismanaged Vision

There was one common thread between NBA Elite 11 and NBA Live 14: both were banking on a dribbling engine being the thing which made gamers want to play their product over the 2K series.

And while yes, dribbling is an incredibly important piece of basketball — Live 14’s execution of a new dribbling system is actually inferior to 2K14’s improved dribbling mechanics. Focusing on such a narrow window of gameplay to best the competition on, and then losing in that small area is a recipe for disaster (which Live 14 currently is).

And granted, I’m writing this piece from the comfort of my home as a gaming and sports journalist, but the vision behind Live 14 and the Live series in particular, has been horribly flawed over the past several years.

Live 14 does something incredibly well, it has an amazing amount of strategic depth which could easily be leveraged if a competent game of basketball could be played on the court. Another thing Live 14 could have leveraged was an easier to pick up and master game of basketball — instead the game was perhaps more convoluted than 2K14 when it comes to mastering the intricacies of the game.

Even Ultimate Team feels mailed in with Live 14, with scant features compared to other offerings from EA.

Going forward, NBA Live can have a future but developers have to bring a vision which matches what is already in place. The game’s focus on strategic depth is something which should be expanded upon, but going forward the game has to find a way to differentiate itself from 2K14.

Becoming even more complex and convoluted is not the answer. I believe the game would benefit from a simpler approach with controls to allow the game to appear to play a much better game of basketball.

It is very possible the intense effort to try to get so many different controls and transistions perfect led to the gameplay being unnecessarily complex and thus the focus of development with the on-court action was so diffuse that we didn’t get a solid core of basketball.

If Live 15 exists, the game needs to be simplified and it needs to see the strategic options expanded upon in a way which guides the gamer into and through the in-game strategic options.

Live 15 will have to deliver a game which plays the basics of basketball well along with strategic depth which the game not only explains but actually presents in a compelling manner, there would be an angle EA could run with on the court.

Ultimately, the answer in establishing a vision for the NBA Live series is a simpler game of basketball which literally is built for fans by fans. Which brings us full circle.

The Future of EA Basketball

It’s simple: EA has a lot of fixes and about faces to do and a lot of medicine to take in order to secure a future in basketball.

An open and honest discussion about where the series is and where it is heading is the best possible course of action. At this point, you will gain more consumer goodwill by that than you will lose strategic advantage over the competition.

It is 2013, almost 2014. Openness and honesty, as well as authenticity and access are rewarded by consumers by loyalty when it comes time to check out. Imagine if fans were allowed access and an open window into the Live 15 development cycle and we were all updated on what was worked on and what the team is up to. Imagine what kind of good will could be created if at the same time, we were shown how the developers were real NBA fans who actually love basketball.

NBA Live has to be considered a desperate endeavor at this point — meaning that the company has literally nothing to lose if it is committed to delivering another basketball product.

I am not willing to give up on the Live franchise, as I believe the more sports games we have on the market, the better we all are. I also believe there is room for a second basketball title, but that opening comes with an expiration date which is approaching fast.

Doing things the traditional way isn’t going to result in EA basketball being viable in the future. No matter what EA does, they are not going to succeed with NBA Live 15 if they simply do what they've always done and control the conversation and have it be a one way conversation.

I see little way for the game to improve enough to justify that approach and what little trust potential fans had is now gone after the disastrous NBA Live 14.

To be cliche for a second: desperate times do call for desperate measures — and doing things radically different with a theoretical NBA Live 15 might be so crazy, it just might work.


NBA Live 14 Videos
Member Comments
# 141 Pared @ 12/10/13 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTWHITE
Now you know if I had an issue with you I would have pm'd you. Of course you Mods tick me off at times but I'd rather have you around keeping myself included in order. I have crossed the line a time or 2 and I'm not perfect.

If everyone agreed on everything this would be one boring forum.


Sent from my iPhone

Sorry I was busy replying to your PM.

It's all gravy. Personally, I think some (including WTF) are just fed up with the extra bull in 2k and like the "complexity in the simplicity" in Live. It happens as you get older and I find myself no longer interested in altering rosters and publishing sliders for others to argue about and so on and so forth.

But me saying that could be taken the wrong way so I've held that one back until now. It's not a slight, it's just how I see it. I don't see anything that is being mentioned here so I guess I am just blind in that sense. I think some guys here have a solid opinion and I like hearing them explain it. I know Dre and I didn't see eye to eye on the direction of Live and 2k (and this was when I was visiting EA!). I genuinely wanted us to have more options and better games that weren't copies of one another; you would still have similarities because they were emulating bball but there WAS a way to do it. If only EA listened to feedback more closely.

We probably wouldn't be where we are today. I honestly don't know how many times EA is going to keep going with a game that sells this poorly. I bet you they would make more money selling this in the App Store than on the PS4 and XB1.
 
# 142 DonWuan @ 12/10/13 06:37 PM
I though the NBA determined price.

Even though I got it for about half off, as of today I would pay 60. When demo dropped, a big no.

But I knew I wasn't picking up 2k till 2k15. I play on PC though but 95% of that game is cosmetic.

Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk
 
# 143 nick_sr @ 12/10/13 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
...and for the record coming in here with more 2k stuff has no bearing on the article at hand and its off topic.

This game has enough issues within itself and im sorry WTF... there are a ton of things that have been shown already that isnt fixed with synergy that are expoloitable in itself that shouldn't be there.

You guys can keep picking on other games and ignoring the flaws in this one all day, but the truth of the matter is, this one is the only nex gen game in danger of falling off the map at this point.
"You guys can keep picking on other games and ignoring the flaws in this one all day"

I find this very ironic
 
# 144 DonWuan @ 12/10/13 07:11 PM
Who is ignoring flaws?

Hey thousands of people still play WarZ/Infested everyday.

Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk
 
# 145 JoeDog10 @ 12/10/13 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackceasar
I guess what all of this boils down to amongst the "basketball experts" The Live Fanboys, the 2k Fanboys, the people from EA signing up in secret on here to praise the game, and then the regular real OS members.... I have one question for you... do you feel EA Sports is legitmately warranted in asking for a full 59.99 for this year's title?

That's all want to know. Yes or no.

No "you just need to learn to play the game"... or "Iv'e seen this game do things I haven't seen in a basketball game in 10 years"... or EA Sucks 2k RULES!!!...

Do you think EA should charge people full price for this game.. I don't mean the "patched" version. I mean that game that people actually dropped their money on.. the game that's on the disk.. not the patches that are "in the works".. 60.00... yes or no.

It's a legitimate question seeing that not all games launch at full price... so I wanna know.
Of the two next gen basketball games, why do I always see so many people either questioning or saying this isn't worth $60? The only reason I put so much time into this game in the first place is because that other game - the one with the pretty graphics - is completely broken (figuratively and at times literally, too). And since I purchased this game, I haven't had the slightest itch to even play the other one.

I realize 90% of the board doesn't like this game, and that's fine. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not here to try and change anyone's mind or "justify" my purchase. If I couldn't afford to throw $60 away on a game, I sure as hell wouldn't have purchased a $400 system. But for me, it's totally been worth my $60 while the other game has turned into an expensive coaster.
 
# 146 23 @ 12/10/13 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_sr
"You guys can keep picking on other games and ignoring the flaws in this one all day"

I find this very ironic

What's ironic is how you continue supporting games that sell poorly and get cancelled and you take a piece of an entire post to pick out something to attach your agenda too.

At least say something worth posting in the thread on the topic. Couldn't have been more obvious.

Like Pared stated it doesn't matter if you individually agree with reviews or not..... There is just not enough support for this and people are speaking more loudly with their pocketbooks than you're willing to let off because you're having fun.

It's not rocket science.



Galaxy Note 2
 
# 147 JBulls @ 12/10/13 09:01 PM
I think Andrew Wilson supports this project. If he is actually going to attempt to pursue Live's development into the future he's gonna have a hard time convincing investors to pour more money into it though if he hasn't already, and if that's how the internal process goes at EA.
 
# 148 nick_sr @ 12/10/13 09:52 PM
there's a group of posters on this site with an agenda, not me bruh
 
# 149 Boilerbuzz @ 12/10/13 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Poopador
nba live 13 was officially canceled on 9/27/2012 so im not sure where youre getting the two years from. granted no one outside of ea knows for sure how long this team has had to work on this game but i find it hard to believe they were working on this with a new team while live 13 was still in development.
This part is right and off a little. Yes, they cancelled Live 13. But that project rolled directly into Live 14. For EA to imply otherwise is disingenuous in my opinion. And that's what they do when they say they only had a year. Yeah, for "Live 14".
 
# 150 Boilerbuzz @ 12/10/13 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTWHITE
You need to do your research before posting/giving advice. Check BestBuys trade in. $40. If you were talking about GameStop. Then you are correct. I always check BB



Sent from my iPhone
He clearly said GameStop.
 
# 151 KG @ 12/10/13 11:30 PM
How do you know if you have the Synergy demo? I dl'd the demo today and immediately noticed players just standing idle on the court.
 
# 152 DonWuan @ 12/10/13 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG
How do you know if you have the Synergy demo? I dl'd the demo today and immediately noticed players just standing idle on the court.
One thing that the demo doesn't include is auto movement setting(can't think of name).



Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk
 
# 153 noshun @ 12/10/13 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_sr
"You guys can keep picking on other games and ignoring the flaws in this one all day"

I find this very ironic
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_sr
there's a group of posters on this site with an agenda, not me bruh

Per your twitter: irony indeed


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 30 Nov
@ThaLiveKing 13. That game might have live on graphics but that **** don't play like real ball. The community is brainwashed


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 30 Nov
After just playinh 2k, i will never play that crap game again as long as nba live is around lol


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 25 Nov
Who gave these clowns review credentials?


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 25 Nov
@ScottOGallagher a 3.5 ? Dont know how you let these guys thrash a beautiful game like @EASPORTSNBA live 14 smh


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 22 Nov
"@CuffsTheLegend: Give NBA Live 14 and the #LonelyBarber a chance today"nba live is authentic!


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 20 Nov
Ign is some haters! Gn


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 20 Nov
@ScottOGallagher @EASPORTSNBA finally downloaded the demo. Now that's how basketball is suppose to play #greatjob


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 19 Nov
"@ThaLiveKing: @therealknickz can't play their game cause the servers ain't working in 2K. They need something to do lol"lol


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 16 Nov
@OptimusP76 2k fans are nothing but haters bruh!!! These are like some pest!


Nick Sr 84@therealknickz 16 Nov
@ThaLiveKing not me. I need a basketball game until @MLBTheShow 14 drops. Refuse to buy that gimmick *** 2k game lol




SLA..
 
# 154 DonWuan @ 12/10/13 11:59 PM
You looked up someone's twitter? I must be getting old (27). Speaks volume's


Once again I do agree with OP.

Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk
 
# 155 noshun @ 12/11/13 12:01 AM
he put it out there for the world to see, so its fair game. anything else?
 
# 156 King_B_Mack @ 12/11/13 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonWuan
You looked up someone's twitter? I must be getting old (27). Speaks volume's


Once again I do agree with OP.

Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk
Or he could follow him and saw it on his newsfeed and remembered seeing that from him. Just a thought.
 
# 157 DonWuan @ 12/11/13 12:09 AM
Right.......

Moment I seen that, Ray Liotta 1800 commercial ran through my mind.

But I do agree with everyone. No excuses come Live 15 release.

Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk
 
# 158 DogWillHunt @ 12/11/13 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
First sign that the thread is dying: the parrots come out.
You might eat these words.

Dare I say, the animation is beginning to look great?
 
# 159 Sundown @ 12/11/13 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Poopador
fans dont prefer it because its not pretty and its not what theyre used to. the problem is that no one gives it a chance because of the graphics. the few people on here who have gone back to play it since 2k doesnt work have said its much better than they originally thought.
I played the Live demo and thought it looked and felt like an abomination, but that there were some promising animations.

I played it again later with a friend and discovered how terrible the actual basketball is with hop step cheese. Still, some of the animations looked kind of okay in moments if I didn't concentrate too hard.

I played it one more time while waiting for a 2K patch to download-- I was curious about Synergy updates and just wanted to mess around mindlessly for a few minutes. I wasn't even sure on the positives I saw previously. It looked worse AND played worse than even I remembered even when I wasn't trying overly hard to be critical. It's a bad looking, bad playing, bad feeling basketball game that doesn't even appear to be as good as Live 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF
If you fellas are happy with that type of ball game, then that's fine. I will applaud EA for everything that it's doing, sans the graphics. If this game came out swinging with the graphics of NBA 2k, or better, and with a tutorial/practice mode, you'd see a LOT more guys on the forums over here. But it doesn't look next gen. It's not pretty. But it plays a damn good game of basketball.
No it doesn't.

Unless hopstep circus layups with Andrew Bynum is good basketball.

Terrible defense, horrible dribbling model, off-ball AI that does nothing (is this a demo only thing?), AI defenders that seem disinterested in contesting, AI forgetting to shoot the ball when quarters run down, zero explosiveness in player movement, not to mention all the bad animations that equal a bad simulation of player interactions.

A lot of the 2K issues can at least be mitigated by sliders and difficulty levels even though momentum has always been too strong in the game. But when the most effective move is to hopstep repeatedly regardless of player or handles, Live does not look or play like any semblance of good basketball. With all due respect, it seems that your frustration and familiarity with 2K's flaws have completely blinded you to everything that is more poorly done in Live in almost every aspect of the game outside of a few nice pass animations.
 
# 160 El_Poopador @ 12/11/13 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundown
I played the Live demo and thought it looked and felt like an abomination, but that there were some promising animations.

I played it again later with a friend and discovered how terrible the actual basketball is with hop step cheese. Still, some of the animations looked kind of okay in moments if I didn't concentrate too hard.

I played it one more time while waiting for a 2K patch to download-- I was curious about Synergy updates and just wanted to mess around mindlessly for a few minutes. I wasn't even sure on the positives I saw previously. It looked worse AND played worse than even I remembered even when I wasn't trying overly hard to be critical. It's a bad looking, bad playing, bad feeling basketball game that doesn't even appear to be as good as Live 10.


No it doesn't.

Unless hopstep circus layups with Andrew Bynum is good basketball.

Terrible defense, horrible dribbling model, off-ball AI that does nothing (is this a demo only thing?), AI defenders that seem disinterested in contesting, AI forgetting to shoot the ball when quarters run down, zero explosiveness in player movement, not to mention all the bad animations that equal a bad simulation of player interactions.

A lot of the 2K issues can at least be mitigated by sliders and difficulty levels even though momentum has always been too strong in the game. But when the most effective move is to hopstep repeatedly regardless of player or handles, Live does not look or play like any semblance of good basketball. With all due respect, it seems that your frustration and familiarity with 2K's flaws have completely blinded you to everything that is more poorly done in Live in almost every aspect of the game outside of a few nice pass animations.
i think everyone has agreed the hop step is an issue. but we also remember the spin dunk from nba 2k11 that was the hop step of that game. yet it is still regarded by many as the best basketball game ever.

you say terrible ai but from what ive seen the play to play ai is pretty decent. theyre not disinterested in contesting. they just cant warp/slide into position for a good contest every time. is the ai perfect? far from it. and not taking that last shot of the quarter is definitely an issue. but for the most part the ai plays pretty realistically.

personally i like the dribbling system. but i do agree about the explosiveness on the first step. again no one here is saying that the game is flawless. we all agree the game has issues. but it also does a lot well.
 


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