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If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

EA Sports had a clear opening opening with NBA Live 14, and they didn’t even realize it.

NBA 2K14 fumbled its launch about as much as 2K Sports could manage, which is to say — there are still some problems, a few of which are quite serious which consumers are facing, but the game is largely quite good.

Connectivity issues, save file issues with MyCAREER, crashes, and some old legacy gameplay issues are hampering the product at this point. A patch has fixed some issues, but many remain it appears.

In all reality, there is a lot you can find wrong with NBA 2K14 if you look hard enough.

The biggest thing is of course, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that there is no need for a competitor. In fact, a few of the things 2K14 doesn’t do so well such as co-op seasons and a more traditional set of game modes, much less what is still one of the most complex control schemes in sports gaming, gave EA Sports every opportunity to step up to the plate and deliver something new and fresh along with familiar and comfortable.

And then came NBA Live 14. A game which needed only to be stable, solid, and ok in order to be considered a success wasn’t.

It’s a rare thing to have a AAA game releasing which doesn’t necessarily need to be great to be considered a success, it’s rarer still that such low expectations in place simply aren’t met on any level.

There are numerous and maddening questions which must be asked of why EA's basketball product, which has had several years come forth out of development, simply hasn’t come close to being a game which is an acceptable $60 purchase.

No one expected Live 14 was going to live up to the standard NBA 2K has set over the years. No one outside of camp EA even had illusions the game was going to be seen as an equal in quality — I personally wrote several times Live 14 simply needed to get a good and solid foundation of gameplay and online play right to be viable.

Neither happened.

There have been key areas of mismanagement which plague the NBA Live series, and until each is fixed individually, this series has no future.

Mismanaged Expectations

In an interview with the SportsBusiness Daily, EA CEO Andrew Wilson (and former head of EA Sports and ultimately the one responsible for the Live product) said the following:  “The game is releasing. It is happening, and this is very gratifying. We did ourselves absolutely no favors, but it was still the right decision in both instances. We’ve now built a great game, shifting focus entirely to the next-generation consoles, and are looking forward to getting back out there and competing in the marketplace. But we also know it will be a multiyear process.”

That quote was handed down on November 18, 2013, one day before the game released.

That was also one day before the reviews of the ‘great game’ which was ‘gratifying’ began to Metacritic in the 30s or 40s, depending on your platform.

In an interview with Review Fix, executive producer Sean O’Brien said when asked how he’d like NBA Live 14 to be remembered, “…that we stayed focused and delivered on our vision that NBA LIVE 14 is great basketball video game for the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. If we do that, I feel we’ve made progress in returning the NBA LIVE franchise and establishing a strong foundation for the future.”

When asked on Twitter if Live 14 had a chance against NBA 2K14, O’Brien answered, “of course.”

Reading these quotes, one of two things must be true: Either EA knew they were sitting on an absolutely horrible game and people promoting it publicly were lying about its condition or, perhaps worse, they actually thought the game was good.

Neither of the above scenarios promotes the idea that the future of the EA basketball product actually rests in viability and any future efforts, if there are to be any, must have radical differences to how the promotion and expectations of the game is handled.

The truth is, the act of trying to be authentic and real with fans has to go away, replaced by what is actual and real authenticity. EA cannot say or imply they are releasing a great basketball game which can compete in the marketplace if the game you are producing is simply not going to make it there.

EA’s number one task this year was to release a product which manages to build trust with what would be their future core audience on the new generation of consoles — one could make the argument, compellingly, that EA not only didn’t do that, but they actually have irreparably ruined trust forever when it comes to their basketball product.

If NBA Live is to have a future as a series, one thing has to happen and it has to happen quickly — there has to be an open and honest dialogue about the game like we’ve never seen before from EA on any previous product. Consumers have to be let in to the entire process, and we have to see the game being built — and we have to see the current mess fixed.

The only way EA is going to gain enough trust to have anything more than a few misguided parents plopping $60 down on this game next year is to get people involved like never before in a AAA title. Anything less and people are simply not going to trust the company’s basketball efforts.

Mismanaged Foundation

Perhaps the most puzzling move of the entire EA Sports Basketball debacle was the series of decisions after the release of NBA Live 10.

In NBA Live 10, EA Sports had just released a product which not only competed but in many ways bested 2Ks effort that same year. Everything seemed to finally be working right, and EA basketball was on track for a better tomorrow.

And gamers? Well gamers were set to enjoy what was going to be a fantastic future of basketball gaming.

The answer to that successful year, of course, was to completely scrap the game, the name, the foundational gameplay and start all over — at least, that’s what EA chose to do.

One has to wonder what led to those sorts of decisions being made after NBA Live 10 had such a successful release — it’s not the first or only time a company has done something as foolish, but such decisions are usually made out of desperation or legal position weakness, not from strategically minded and confident positions that EA should have found themselves in.

Think about it this way, had NBA Live 14 been built off of the NBA Live 10 engine, this year’s game could probably have done no worse than a 60% on Metacritic. Theoretically of course, but it's hard to imagine such a solid game which improved visuals and some subtle gameplay enhancements not getting received warmly by at least some.

Such a game was exactly the type of effort Live needed to produce too. Instead, from what we know, the series has been scrapped and code based dumped no less than twice since the last NBA Live release in late 2009.

This mismanagement has set the product back valuable years on getting the core basketball experience right while the competition continues to refine even the finest parts of the game of basketball.

As I said earlier in this column, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that competition is not needed — and now with Live 14 releasing with so many fundamental basketball gaffes — one has to wonder where any of the old Live 10 code went off to.

NBA Live product has to develop a competent foundation which can be built off of for the game of basketball. This process has to start immediately with important and much needed fixes to their current product which our own Jayson Young has outlined in the How To Fix NBA Live 14 article.

Mismanaged Vision

There was one common thread between NBA Elite 11 and NBA Live 14: both were banking on a dribbling engine being the thing which made gamers want to play their product over the 2K series.

And while yes, dribbling is an incredibly important piece of basketball — Live 14’s execution of a new dribbling system is actually inferior to 2K14’s improved dribbling mechanics. Focusing on such a narrow window of gameplay to best the competition on, and then losing in that small area is a recipe for disaster (which Live 14 currently is).

And granted, I’m writing this piece from the comfort of my home as a gaming and sports journalist, but the vision behind Live 14 and the Live series in particular, has been horribly flawed over the past several years.

Live 14 does something incredibly well, it has an amazing amount of strategic depth which could easily be leveraged if a competent game of basketball could be played on the court. Another thing Live 14 could have leveraged was an easier to pick up and master game of basketball — instead the game was perhaps more convoluted than 2K14 when it comes to mastering the intricacies of the game.

Even Ultimate Team feels mailed in with Live 14, with scant features compared to other offerings from EA.

Going forward, NBA Live can have a future but developers have to bring a vision which matches what is already in place. The game’s focus on strategic depth is something which should be expanded upon, but going forward the game has to find a way to differentiate itself from 2K14.

Becoming even more complex and convoluted is not the answer. I believe the game would benefit from a simpler approach with controls to allow the game to appear to play a much better game of basketball.

It is very possible the intense effort to try to get so many different controls and transistions perfect led to the gameplay being unnecessarily complex and thus the focus of development with the on-court action was so diffuse that we didn’t get a solid core of basketball.

If Live 15 exists, the game needs to be simplified and it needs to see the strategic options expanded upon in a way which guides the gamer into and through the in-game strategic options.

Live 15 will have to deliver a game which plays the basics of basketball well along with strategic depth which the game not only explains but actually presents in a compelling manner, there would be an angle EA could run with on the court.

Ultimately, the answer in establishing a vision for the NBA Live series is a simpler game of basketball which literally is built for fans by fans. Which brings us full circle.

The Future of EA Basketball

It’s simple: EA has a lot of fixes and about faces to do and a lot of medicine to take in order to secure a future in basketball.

An open and honest discussion about where the series is and where it is heading is the best possible course of action. At this point, you will gain more consumer goodwill by that than you will lose strategic advantage over the competition.

It is 2013, almost 2014. Openness and honesty, as well as authenticity and access are rewarded by consumers by loyalty when it comes time to check out. Imagine if fans were allowed access and an open window into the Live 15 development cycle and we were all updated on what was worked on and what the team is up to. Imagine what kind of good will could be created if at the same time, we were shown how the developers were real NBA fans who actually love basketball.

NBA Live has to be considered a desperate endeavor at this point — meaning that the company has literally nothing to lose if it is committed to delivering another basketball product.

I am not willing to give up on the Live franchise, as I believe the more sports games we have on the market, the better we all are. I also believe there is room for a second basketball title, but that opening comes with an expiration date which is approaching fast.

Doing things the traditional way isn’t going to result in EA basketball being viable in the future. No matter what EA does, they are not going to succeed with NBA Live 15 if they simply do what they've always done and control the conversation and have it be a one way conversation.

I see little way for the game to improve enough to justify that approach and what little trust potential fans had is now gone after the disastrous NBA Live 14.

To be cliche for a second: desperate times do call for desperate measures — and doing things radically different with a theoretical NBA Live 15 might be so crazy, it just might work.


NBA Live 14 Videos
Member Comments
# 41 WTF @ 12/08/13 02:02 PM
I'm posting a ton of videos in the video thread and several in the impressions thread. Those who are liking it are definitely in the minority no doubt. The game has had a ton of negativity surrounding it.

I'm going to be just as vocal with my impressions and the positives that I am seeing with the game play. Hopefully the other respected members who have picked up the game will see the same. I don't want 2 of the same game. This is a totally different animal and I'm glad.

I don't think I have ever had so much fun finding the open man and boxing out. The best thing about it is, when you box out, and time your jump, you're going to get a rebound and not have it mysteriously warp to another player. I've had a few times where I've blocked out to the point that the ball hits the floor because I was focused on keeping my guy off of the glass.
 
# 42 TheHypeMachine6 @ 12/08/13 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF
I'm posting a ton of videos in the video thread and several in the impressions thread. Those who are liking it are definitely in the minority no doubt. The game has had a ton of negativity surrounding it.

I'm going to be just as vocal with my impressions and the positives that I am seeing with the game play. Hopefully the other respected members who have picked up the game will see the same. I don't want 2 of the same game. This is a totally different animal and I'm glad.

I don't think I have ever had so much fun finding the open man and boxing out. The best thing about it is, when you box out, and time your jump, you're going to get a rebound and not have it mysteriously warp to another player. I've had a few times where I've blocked out to the point that the ball hits the floor because I was focused on keeping my guy off of the glass.
Are you sure your not an EA Sports Rep? Your defending this game like theres no tomorrow, and after the sub par effort Live turned out to be there might not be! Coming to the defense of this game is as bad as the EA Producers feeding us all the B.S that the game would be "Great" or "Competitive", I'm hearing give this game a chance, well I gave this game the best of 7-8hrs, and if you feel this game is a true replication of an NBA game your kidding yourself, the trust is gone, and IMHO Live has reached its ceiling, if that is their best shot at Next Gen then id scrap it and walk away now. I'm all for competition and yes NBA 2K14 has some noticeable flaws that EA Sports could have jumped on but didn't, geez they saw what they were up against months in advance but remained dormant, IMO i think they knew it would fail, but relied on fans such as WTF & others to promote their game before and after. Sorry b'ball game fans but i think we will be back to 1 game again in 2014-15
 
# 43 Pared @ 12/08/13 05:53 PM
It's really hard to have a discussion or make a case when we have posts littering the forum such as this last one.

Anyway WTF, I don't see what you're seeing. I'm done looking for "potential" in a title. But when you say things like, "I've never had as much fun boxing out or finding the open man..." it makes me scratch my head. These are the same things Live did pretty decently in Live 10. Here we are, a more powerful system and 3 (4?) years later and it's the same old hat.

I'll give the videos a look. Backscreens may be nice, but then I see plenty of standing around and feel the AI is very much "on rails" in its execution.
 
# 44 23 @ 12/08/13 06:33 PM
The ability to enjoy this game does not excuse the fact that #1 it has sold poorly and #2 it doesn't stack up to any nex gen game at all, even with the advantages of time that has been given over the years.

I for one would never tell EA all this game needs is tweaks when its back in danger of being cancelled again, and that's just where we are.
 
# 45 TheHypeMachine6 @ 12/08/13 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pared
It's really hard to have a discussion or make a case when we have posts littering the forum such as this last one.

Anyway WTF, I don't see what you're seeing. I'm done looking for "potential" in a title. But when you say things like, "I've never had as much fun boxing out or finding the open man..." it makes me scratch my head. These are the same things Live did pretty decently in Live 10. Here we are, a more powerful system and 3 (4?) years later and it's the same old hat.

I'll give the videos a look. Backscreens may be nice, but then I see plenty of standing around and feel the AI is very much "on rails" in its execution.
I'm not entitled to my opinion?
 
# 46 DonWuan @ 12/08/13 06:56 PM
At the end of the day there is probably no point in posting anything good about Live. Game looks like ****, animations look like **** and they have admitted to the game being subpar. But the graphics whore I am(mainly Pc player) why am I having fun with this game. Game that decided my purchase was from the Demo. Warriors(me) vs OKC, greatest virtual basketball game Ive played since Ben Wallace was on the cover. Those moments when OKC was playing true to themselves, double overtime victory for myself. Never felt cheated, still a little high from that game.


I dont think either game represent basketball simulation. As Live might look uglier doing it, I have about the same amounts of WTF was that type moments in both games.

I do agree with everyone. Everything about this game should/could have been done 100x better. EA has the resources if they were serious about competition. Keep the core, fire the art people and need to see a massive increase in every area of the game.

Side note, I purchased it from Amazon Warehouse for 30ish dollars.
 
# 47 WTF @ 12/08/13 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHypeMachine6
Are you sure your not an EA Sports Rep? Your defending this game like theres no tomorrow, and after the sub par effort Live turned out to be there might not be! Coming to the defense of this game is as bad as the EA Producers feeding us all the B.S that the game would be "Great" or "Competitive", I'm hearing give this game a chance, well I gave this game the best of 7-8hrs, and if you feel this game is a true replication of an NBA game your kidding yourself, the trust is gone, and IMHO Live has reached its ceiling, if that is their best shot at Next Gen then id scrap it and walk away now. I'm all for competition and yes NBA 2K14 has some noticeable flaws that EA Sports could have jumped on but didn't, geez they saw what they were up against months in advance but remained dormant, IMO i think they knew it would fail, but relied on fans such as WTF & others to promote their game before and after. Sorry b'ball game fans but i think we will be back to 1 game again in 2014-15
I was pulling for the game before release? During the demo's first release? You should probably be a little more educated before saying they were relying on me prior to release. I hated, HATED the demo with a passion. I played it for about 2-3 hours max, and then deleted it entirely.

The game played poorly. Slow, sluggish, feet dragging in mud. It was not a replication of anything. The ball was leaving the offensive players hands at an incorrect trajectory. It was just a poor excuse of a game. There, I shared your opinion.

HOWEVER, since the "other" title broke for me, I had no place to turn. I redownloaded the demo. And over 2-3 days, I started noticing a difference, day to day. I started looking at the game a little different than the other game. I started trying to learn the game. And wow, I enjoyed it. Is it for everyone? Apparently not. Am I trying to sell you on the game? No I'm not. I could care less if you like it.

Did I know that I'd most likely be ridiculed by the site for enjoying it? Yep. So why did I come and post my opinion? Because I was enjoying the game, after thinking it was complete and utter trash initially. And you know what? Look at some of the new impressions coming forward. They shared the same sentiment. They dismissed the title initially, the other game broke, they had to have somewhere to turn. Picked up the demo again, listened to what I and others were saying, started learning the ropes.

Guess what? Some of their opinions echo mine. If you don't like it, then that's fine. But to try to undermine my opinion as trying to sell the game for EA? I'm a grown man with wife & 2 kids, mortgage payment, good job, I don't need to waste my time trying to convince people that I don't know, that a game is or isn't a turd.

But I've been on the site providing impressions for the past 12+ years, and I know that SOME posters have the same likes/dislikes that I have. So if you don't like my positive impressions, that's fine. They apparently aren't for you.

Feel free to find a thread that you're interested in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pared
It's really hard to have a discussion or make a case when we have posts littering the forum such as this last one.

Anyway WTF, I don't see what you're seeing. I'm done looking for "potential" in a title. But when you say things like, "I've never had as much fun boxing out or finding the open man..." it makes me scratch my head. These are the same things Live did pretty decently in Live 10. Here we are, a more powerful system and 3 (4?) years later and it's the same old hat.

I'll give the videos a look. Backscreens may be nice, but then I see plenty of standing around and feel the AI is very much "on rails" in its execution.
I'm done looking for potential in a title too. That's why I'm not going back to 2k this year. For everything that it did good (graphics/animations) there were too many things that it did wrong in my eyes (gameplay/AI). Again, that's in my eyes.

The game is as far from on rails as you can get. I try to read a play, or what they should do videogame wise, and I end up getting burnt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
The ability to enjoy this game does not excuse the fact that #1 it has sold poorly and #2 it doesn't stack up to any nex gen game at all, even with the advantages of time that has been given over the years.

I for one would never tell EA all this game needs is tweaks when its back in danger of being cancelled again, and that's just where we are.
Wrong. Graphically speaking it doesn't stand up to any next gen game. That's where it doesn't stack up.

If the game released today, with how the game is playing today, then it wouldn't get the 4.3 from IGN that it received. If it did, I would question it wholeheartedly. That being said, the original demo that was played prior to Synergy kicking in, yes, that game deserved a 4.3. The tendencies, etc did not feel like they were "in" the game, no baseline so to speak.

Every game that I play, is a different experience. You're not looking for the "cheese" that you see in a rubberband AI. You're constantly trying to find a mismatch, pick your spots, put together a string of stops and scores. What I'm not doing, is shaking my head in disbelief that a ball morphed THROUGH 3 of my defenders to allow the CPU to score because the game was determined that it was scoring regardless. If I get a rebound, I know I was in position. If I don't get a rebound, I know that the CPU earned the rebound. It wasn't "given" to them because they were "supposed" to get the rebound.

I'm telling EA that I "get" what they were doing. I wish they would have given learning options to teach you the game. No doubt. It would have helped with a lot of the issues that you saw. I also wish they would have included tendencies from the get-go, because in my eyes it's night and day after the updates.

Again, you all play whatever game you want. I'm just disagreeing with the premise that it has to look radically different than the game I'm playing "now". Not when it first released, but NOW.
 
# 48 shutdown10 @ 12/08/13 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF
I was pulling for the game before release? During the demo's first release? You should probably be a little more educated before saying they were relying on me prior to release. I hated, HATED the demo with a passion. I played it for about 2-3 hours max, and then deleted it entirely.

The game played poorly. Slow, sluggish, feet dragging in mud. It was not a replication of anything. The ball was leaving the offensive players hands at an incorrect trajectory. It was just a poor excuse of a game. There, I shared your opinion.

HOWEVER, since the "other" title broke for me, I had no place to turn. I redownloaded the demo. And over 2-3 days, I started noticing a difference, day to day. I started looking at the game a little different than the other game. I started trying to learn the game. And wow, I enjoyed it. Is it for everyone? Apparently not. Am I trying to sell you on the game? No I'm not. I could care less if you like it.

Did I know that I'd most likely be ridiculed by the site for enjoying it? Yep. So why did I come and post my opinion? Because I was enjoying the game, after thinking it was complete and utter trash initially. And you know what? Look at some of the new impressions coming forward. They shared the same sentiment. They dismissed the title initially, the other game broke, they had to have somewhere to turn. Picked up the demo again, listened to what I and others were saying, started learning the ropes.

Guess what? Some of their opinions echo mine. If you don't like it, then that's fine. But to try to undermine my opinion as trying to sell the game for EA? I'm a grown man with wife & 2 kids, mortgage payment, good job, I don't need to waste my time trying to convince people that I don't know, that a game is or isn't a turd.

But I've been on the site providing impressions for the past 12+ years, and I know that SOME posters have the same likes/dislikes that I have. So if you don't like my positive impressions, that's fine. They apparently aren't for you.

Feel free to find a thread that you're interested in.

I'm done looking for potential in a title too. That's why I'm not going back to 2k this year. For everything that it did good (graphics/animations) there were too many things that it did wrong in my eyes (gameplay/AI). Again, that's in my eyes.

The game is as far from on rails as you can get. I try to read a play, or what they should do videogame wise, and I end up getting burnt.



Wrong. Graphically speaking it doesn't stand up to any next gen game. That's where it doesn't stack up.

If the game released today, with how the game is playing today, then it wouldn't get the 4.3 from IGN that it received. If it did, I would question it wholeheartedly. That being said, the original demo that was played prior to Synergy kicking in, yes, that game deserved a 4.3. The tendencies, etc did not feel like they were "in" the game, no baseline so to speak.

Every game that I play, is a different experience. You're not looking for the "cheese" that you see in a rubberband AI. You're constantly trying to find a mismatch, pick your spots, put together a string of stops and scores. What I'm not doing, is shaking my head in disbelief that a ball morphed THROUGH 3 of my defenders to allow the CPU to score because the game was determined that it was scoring regardless. If I get a rebound, I know I was in position. If I don't get a rebound, I know that the CPU earned the rebound. It wasn't "given" to them because they were "supposed" to get the rebound.

I'm telling EA that I "get" what they were doing. I wish they would have given learning options to teach you the game. No doubt. It would have helped with a lot of the issues that you saw. I also wish they would have included tendencies from the get-go, because in my eyes it's night and day after the updates.

Again, you all play whatever game you want. I'm just disagreeing with the premise that it has to look radically different than the game I'm playing "now". Not when it first released, but NOW.

If you are seeing so much promise in this franchise, then you should provide alot of helpful feedback to that Live development team so they can make Live 15 a true next gen experience. Defending your experiences with the game is not going to change the sales numbers for this game. I advise you to get on twitter with Scott O Gallagher and Sean O Brien to provide great feedback to them if they are allowed to make Live 15
 
# 49 WTF @ 12/08/13 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutdown10
If you are seeing so much promise in this franchise, then you should provide alot of helpful feedback to that Live development team so they can make Live 15 a true next gen experience. Defending your experiences with the game is not going to change the sales numbers for this game. I advise you to get on twitter with Scott O Gallagher and Sean O Brien to provide great feedback to them if they are allowed to make Live 15
I'm providing my feedback through a public forum here.

It's much more helpful than saying "This game sucks..." "RIP Live".... "2k all the way".

What do those type of comments do? Nothing. If you all want to play the game, and post some thoughts on how to expand and make the game better, then by all means, do so.

What I see, is what I'm posting on. That's it. EASports_AJ is here on OS, and taking things to the dev team. I'm posting constructive criticisms both here and in private through several different channels.

I don't want what 2k is offering right now. Do I wish Live had their graphics? For the most part, yes. Do I wish they had their animations? For the most part, yes, UNLESS it was at the sacrifice of gameplay.

Feel free to disagree. But don't bash other members for seeing something differently than you do. And don't tell me to "help" the EA Sports team by not sharing my feelings on the game. If I'm sharing my thoughts, and it's what appeals to "me", then I'm content. I'm not in the majority, and I'll take that. I want a dynamic basketball game. I don't want a game that I know the outcome before I finish the game.
 
# 50 Boilerbuzz @ 12/08/13 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTWHITE
Hilarious how almost every thread that you chime in on if impressions aren't in line with yours we are the issue/clueless. Lol

You do know that our opinions have about the same weight as yours on forums right??

It's cool Boilerbuzz if you don't like the game.
Sorry. Did I offend you with a fair question? I didn't say anyone was clueless. I just asked how did he draw his conclusion. That's it. Beyond that, 20k units sold makes quite a statement: people don't seem to like the game. You don't know what my opinion really is. I don't come in here to trash the game. I come to see how others are enjoying it so that I can maximize my investment. Regardless if you or I have the same opinion of the game, it shouldn't affect anyone's ability to answer my question, if they so choose.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
# 51 23 @ 12/08/13 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF
Wrong. Graphically speaking it doesn't stand up to any next gen game. That's where it doesn't stack up.

Graphically the game is a fail, and that doesn't even need to be said point blank because everyone knows it, and thats not the point.

This game looks like something that should've been released 3 or 4 years ago not matter what kind of pink elephant is in the room about it. Either EA knew something was wrong with it because they hid is just like they did Elite and with Live 2007, or they thought this game was good enough to make sales to sustain the budget and that's even scarier.



Quote:
If the game released today, with how the game is playing today, then it wouldn't get the 4.3 from IGN that it received. If it did, I would question it wholeheartedly. That being said, the original demo that was played prior to Synergy kicking in, yes, that game deserved a 4.3. The tendencies, etc did not feel like they were "in" the game, no baseline so to speak.


Look man, I know about Synergy. Its not new, its been in 2 other previous iterations of this series, and that still didn't stop it from being cancelled. NBA Inside Drive which did this thing much better over a decade ago died and left the scene. Many of us loved that series and that started the whole tendency revolution, but even that game didn't last.

Secondly synergy is not the be all end all, which is why I had to edit Live 10 until my fingers turned blue. Its much more than a tendency data driven game in the background.... and frankly with as much time as they had, if this is the best they can crank out I wouldn't be surprised to see more articles like this and any less than stellar reviews in the future. It wasn't just IGN, it wasn't just OS, and it wasn't just Gamespot, it was just about everybody out there... and if you think this game will continue to survive on that get ready to be let down again.

Every game that I play, is a different experience. You're not looking for the "cheese" that you see in a rubberband AI. You're constantly trying to find a mismatch, pick your spots, put together a string of stops and scores. What I'm not doing, is shaking my head in disbelief that a ball morphed THROUGH 3 of my defenders to allow the CPU to score because the game was determined that it was scoring regardless. If I get a rebound, I know I was in position. If I don't get a rebound, I know that the CPU earned the rebound. It wasn't "given" to them because they were "supposed" to get the rebound.

I'm telling EA that I "get" what they were doing. I wish they would have given learning options to teach you the game. No doubt. It would have helped with a lot of the issues that you saw. I also wish they would have included tendencies from the get-go, because in my eyes it's night and day after the updates.

Again, you all play whatever game you want. I'm just disagreeing with the premise that it has to look radically different than the game I'm playing "now". Not when it first released, but NOW.[/quote]

Now or later I think your enjoyment of this game is hampering you from seeing that it probably won't last in its current state. I know you disagree, im telling you with a sales number that low a large company wont continue to dump resources into a game costing them so much money.
 
# 52 Boilerbuzz @ 12/08/13 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF
I'm providing my feedback through a public forum here.

It's much more helpful than saying "This game sucks..." "RIP Live".... "2k all the way".

What do those type of comments do? Nothing. If you all want to play the game, and post some thoughts on how to expand and make the game better, then by all means, do so.

What I see, is what I'm posting on. That's it. EASports_AJ is here on OS, and taking things to the dev team. I'm posting constructive criticisms both here and in private through several different channels.

I don't want what 2k is offering right now. Do I wish Live had their graphics? For the most part, yes. Do I wish they had their animations? For the most part, yes, UNLESS it was at the sacrifice of gameplay.

Feel free to disagree. But don't bash other members for seeing something differently than you do. And don't tell me to "help" the EA Sports team by not sharing my feelings on the game. If I'm sharing my thoughts, and it's what appeals to "me", then I'm content. I'm not in the majority, and I'll take that. I want a dynamic basketball game. I don't want a game that I know the outcome before I finish the game.
You used quite a few words to say you're more willing to forgive Live for its issues, than you are willing to forgive 2k for its issues. I'm sure you have your reasons. It just seems like a personal crusade. You keep talking about how they "broke your game". But that is neither here nor there.

A person can take ANY game and get the experience they desire out of it. Some of you really seem to turn a blind eye to the bad basketball that is played in the game. Much of which have been documented. Yet, you shrug your shoulders and move forward and rejoice in the good. And, I say that is exactly how you should play your games. It just seems you're going overboard when it comes to this game.

No one is saying that you have to help out the Live developers with feedback. But if you truly enjoy the game that much, why not?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
# 53 shutdown10 @ 12/08/13 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF
I'm providing my feedback through a public forum here.

It's much more helpful than saying "This game sucks..." "RIP Live".... "2k all the way".

What do those type of comments do? Nothing. If you all want to play the game, and post some thoughts on how to expand and make the game better, then by all means, do so.

What I see, is what I'm posting on. That's it. EASports_AJ is here on OS, and taking things to the dev team. I'm posting constructive criticisms both here and in private through several different channels.

I don't want what 2k is offering right now. Do I wish Live had their graphics? For the most part, yes. Do I wish they had their animations? For the most part, yes, UNLESS it was at the sacrifice of gameplay.

Feel free to disagree. But don't bash other members for seeing something differently than you do. And don't tell me to "help" the EA Sports team by not sharing my feelings on the game. If I'm sharing my thoughts, and it's what appeals to "me", then I'm content. I'm not in the majority, and I'll take that. I want a dynamic basketball game. I don't want a game that I know the outcome before I finish the game.
I'm not bashing you or any member on this forum about EA's ongoing issues with this franchise. I just wanted to see if you were doing your part to make sure this game improves. If you believe in something, then you do what is necessary to see it improve. I read this review the other day about what EA needs to do to be successful with this franchise again. The review said that EA would have to give their community and consumers more open feedback if they want to survive. I understand that they are watching these threads from the shadows, but what is that going to do for this franchise going forward? One thing I like about Live 10's team is that they were on this forum consistently providing open feedback with us. I was just a lurker back then, but I observed and respected what Mike Wang did on this forum for Live 10. It is vital that the new Live team connect with their community going forward. We must pound it in their heads that they need to actively communicate with us or never receive consumer trust. They cannot hide what they are working on any longer from this point on. I want success for them, but when are they finally going to deliver?
 
# 54 NoTiCe_O @ 12/08/13 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
I'm sorry, but how do you come to this conclusion? I see no basis for this. I've seen very little PvP Live gameplay that would support any such claim. And all anyone has posted here has been the six Live zealots posting sandbox videos and how the more they play it, the more they love it. (I call these the "Jedi Mind-trick" posts) Those are funny. But how in the world is Live so "skill based" (da-hell does that even mean, anyway)? I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to know what makes you feel this claim is valid.

The bottom line of the OP is that this was their chance to make up ground. And whether you like the game or not, the fact remains that the game is failing. It doesn't matter if you think it's a good game. If the vast majority of gamers don't want a game that is your idea of "good", then you won't have a game. It should also tell you that you need to reevaluate your sense of judgement, frankly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Well unlike you I haven't let a few videos and posts on a public forum decide my decision of whether a game is good or not. I've actually researched, been on twitch watching streams and I've seen it with my own eyes. I've watched games where a guy was up 70-8 going into the fourth quarter simply because he knew what he was doing and his opponent didn't. I've seen a game where a guy tried to hop step cheese a victory with LeBron and a basketball minded gamer decided to change up his strategy and the cheeser was completely shut down.

Just watching online games you can tell there is a definite difference between people who know what they're doing and people who are just playing. It's the only reason I compared the game to Street Fighter earlier because when watching street fighter you can who's highly skilled, who's alright, and who's just button mashing. It's the same thing with Live. I've seen the guys who have the bouncetek, post game, shooting, pick and roll, and defense all together just demolish folks. I say it's skilled because you could be good at one of the previous mentioned areas but a well rounded player is good at it all. It's not scripted outcomes but rather stick skill and basketball knowledge that will get you the victory.

I've played 2k14 next gen and I can say the gameplay is still very cheesable. Meaning there's just certain things that are going to happen if you want them to, it's not as free flowing as Live and essentially you get luck plays every now and then. In Live if someone knows what he is doing he can SHUT YOU DOWN! Like it should be. Just like if I'm playing Street Fighter and I know what I'm doing and you don't you're going to get whooped, it's not even a question.

In 2k there's shots that you know will be more high percentage than others no matter the contest, in Live you can be more satisfied on defense knowing that if you have the stick skills to control your defense correctly you'll be rewarded because the shots aren't just falling because the game says so, but it's more based on what you're doing to stop the opponent. Are you sending doubles? Are you going over the screen or under? Are you full court pressing or staying back? Zone or Man? I've seen all these strategies make a significant difference in Live to the point where the opponent panic's and just starts messing up.

I don't get the same vibe from 2k, it's more flashy and just a really pretty game of basketball, but the same grind to win isn't there, at least not without feeling like you got jipped. The main difference I see between Live and 2k is that if you lose in Live it's still satisfying because you know you were the cause of the loss. In 2k when you lose most times you it's because a certain animation didn't go your way at a certain point, or someone was abusing a certain animation, and instead of trying to beat someone with basketball strategy you're worrying about stopping a certain animation.

Also, I still don't get why people are bringing up the "Well the fact that you like the game isn't going to make it sell better, it's still doing terrible." argument. I mean are we consumers or producers, are you the one making the game and getting royalties, no, so why do you care how well it's selling, is that really a concern of yours when buying a game? "Hmm, Well I wonder if the games gonna sell? Hmm, probably not I'll pass." Really? Enjoy what you like and don't let figures decide what you enjoy. If that's the case most of you people probably have an iPad, iPhone, iMac, and some of the other hottest not neccsarily greatest gadgets because "They're selling well, or they're popular"

Sorry but I'm not the guy that follows the trends I buy what I like and enjoy, and if it happens to be Live then let it be. Fact of the matter is the game is very skill based whether you decide to see it or not.

I'm really not one to argue over the forums but I just have to speak my mind, I also respect WTF's opinion because he clearly can see the basketball aspects of the game that make it fun and isn't just saying he likes it for attention or something. The game s legitimately fun if you'll play it right and learn it. (Also, you must have some sort of basketball knowledge to really get the most out of the game, a BASKETBALL game mind you). That's how it should be.

Don't expect a reply if you're just going to say I work for EA, or I'm a fanboy, or I'm blind or something. ( Fair Warning)
 
# 55 King_B_Mack @ 12/08/13 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTiCe_O
Well unlike you I haven't let a few videos and posts on a public forum decide my decision of whether a game is good or not. I've actually researched, been on twitch watching streams and I've seen it with my own eyes. I've watched games where a guy was up 70-8 going into the fourth quarter simply because he knew what he was doing and his opponent didn't. I've seen a game where a guy tried to hop step cheese a victory with LeBron and a basketball minded gamer decided to change up his strategy and the cheeser was completely shut down.

Just watching online games you can tell there is a definite difference between people who know what they're doing and people who are just playing. It's the only reason I compared the game to Street Fighter earlier because when watching street fighter you can who's highly skilled, who's alright, and who's just button mashing. It's the same thing with Live. I've seen the guys who have the bouncetek, post game, shooting, pick and roll, and defense all together just demolish folks. I say it's skilled because you could be good at one of the previous mentioned areas but a well rounded player is good at it all. It's not scripted outcomes but rather stick skill and basketball knowledge that will get you the victory.

I've played 2k14 next gen and I can say the gameplay is still very cheesable. Meaning there's just certain things that are going to happen if you want them to, it's not as free flowing as Live and essentially you get luck plays every now and then. In Live if someone knows what he is doing he can SHUT YOU DOWN! Like it should be. Just like if I'm playing Street Fighter and I know what I'm doing and you don't you're going to get whooped, it's not even a question.

In 2k there's shots that you know will be more high percentage than others no matter the contest, in Live you can be more satisfied on defense knowing that if you have the stick skills to control your defense correctly you'll be rewarded because the shots aren't just falling because the game says so, but it's more based on what you're doing to stop the opponent. Are you sending doubles? Are you going over the screen or under? Are you full court pressing or staying back? Zone or Man? I've seen all these strategies make a significant difference in Live to the point where the opponent panic's and just starts messing up.

I don't get the same vibe from 2k, it's more flashy and just a really pretty game of basketball, but the same grind to win isn't there, at least not without feeling like you got jipped. The main difference I see between Live and 2k is that if you lose in Live it's still satisfying because you know you were the cause of the loss. In 2k when you lose most times you it's because a certain animation didn't go your way at a certain point, or someone was abusing a certain animation, and instead of trying to beat someone with basketball strategy you're worrying about stopping a certain animation.

Also, I still don't get why people are bringing up the "Well the fact that you like the game isn't going to make it sell better, it's still doing terrible." argument. I mean are we consumers or producers, are you the one making the game and getting royalties, no, so why do you care how well it's selling, is that really a concern of yours when buying a game? "Hmm, Well I wonder if the games gonna sell? Hmm, probably not I'll pass." Really? Enjoy what you like and don't let figures decide what you enjoy. If that's the case most of you people probably have an iPad, iPhone, iMac, and some of the other hottest not neccsarily greatest gadgets because "They're selling well, or they're popular"

Sorry but I'm not the guy that follows the trends I buy what I like and enjoy, and if it happens to be Live then let it be. Fact of the matter is the game is very skill based whether you decide to see it or not.

I'm really not one to argue over the forums but I just have to speak my mind, I also respect WTF's opinion because he clearly can see the basketball aspects of the game that make it fun and isn't just saying he likes it for attention or something. The game s legitimately fun if you'll play it right and learn it. (Also, you must have some sort of basketball knowledge to really get the most out of the game, a BASKETBALL game mind you). That's how it should be.

Don't expect a reply if you're just going to say I work for EA, or I'm a fanboy, or I'm blind or something. ( Fair Warning)


C'mon son. C'mon.
 
# 56 Boilerbuzz @ 12/08/13 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTiCe_O
Well unlike you I haven't let a few videos and posts on a public forum decide my decision of whether a game is good or not.
Master Jedi, again, I don't feel the need to constantly post why I like or dislike a game. "Wow! The more I play it, the more I love it. It's just so deep! Blah blah blah!"

Hey, did you forget who you're addressing? I'm the one that saw it at E3. I'm the one that got it before ship date. Four days before most of you Jedi here! So kill the sheep talk, dude. You don't know anything about how I form my opinions.

Frankly, I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post. It is full of the same Jedi assertions that have no details or examples to back them up. Not to mention the laughable comparisons to Street Fighter and 2K. No, I won't accuse you of working for EA or any of that other stuff. Why? There are thousands of rabid fans out there willing to eat up anything their favorite game shovels in their face. I'll just say this; all I want to hear are the details. You guys keep repeating the same thing, waiting for the brainwashing to kick in. I want to hear details. See evidence. Not clunky highlight videos that could be ripped apart at a moments notice.

So, I ask again - what are you seeing exactly that leads you to the conclusion I asked you about? It was just a question. Why so much resistance to actually answering it?
 
# 57 noshun @ 12/08/13 11:55 PM
I dont think this game will come out next year.. its over. Live isnt even hitting FaceBreaker numbers in terms of sales. Theyve tarnished the Elite name, tarnished the Live name, reviews are brutal.. O'Brien apology letters abound.. this whole thing is deja vu.. oh last but not least the SLA's (struggle Live apologists) have to convince themselves whats happening is a facade. Theres noone to blame but those particular fans, who like the series but dont say anything..

this just doesnt bode well and weve seen this happen 3 times now since Live 07..
 
# 58 Boilerbuzz @ 12/09/13 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by noshun
I dont think this game will come out next year.. its over. Live isnt even hitting FaceBreaker numbers in terms of sales. Theyve tarnished the Elite name, tarnished the Live name, reviews are brutal.. O'Brien apology letters abound.. this whole thing is deja vu.. oh last but not least the SLA's (struggle Live apologists) have to convince themselves whats happening is a facade. Theres noone to blame but those particular fans, who like the series but dont say anything..

this just doesnt bode well and weve seen this happen 3 times now since Live 07..
I disagree man. I think EA is hell bent on at least one last go at it.
 
# 59 King_B_Mack @ 12/09/13 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
I disagree man. I think EA is hell bent on at least one last go at it.
You may be right, they might take another shot at it. However and I've been saying this, EA looking at improving Live 14 over "the coming weeks and months" is NOT a good sign at all. It's like when they offered updated rosters for Live 10 in light of Elite's cancellation. Pretty sure they didn't update the rosters after there was no Live 12 or after Live 13's cancellation. Track record doesn't suggest anything good coming from continuing this level of support of a game already out the door for that long on their part.
 
# 60 noshun @ 12/09/13 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
I disagree man. I think EA is hell bent on at least one last go at it.
possibly, but theyve wasted so much $$ since elite.. and arent even sniffing any decent recoup since. 4 times to make a 1st impression.. Live is a $ sink...
 


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