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If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

EA Sports had a clear opening opening with NBA Live 14, and they didn’t even realize it.

NBA 2K14 fumbled its launch about as much as 2K Sports could manage, which is to say — there are still some problems, a few of which are quite serious which consumers are facing, but the game is largely quite good.

Connectivity issues, save file issues with MyCAREER, crashes, and some old legacy gameplay issues are hampering the product at this point. A patch has fixed some issues, but many remain it appears.

In all reality, there is a lot you can find wrong with NBA 2K14 if you look hard enough.

The biggest thing is of course, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that there is no need for a competitor. In fact, a few of the things 2K14 doesn’t do so well such as co-op seasons and a more traditional set of game modes, much less what is still one of the most complex control schemes in sports gaming, gave EA Sports every opportunity to step up to the plate and deliver something new and fresh along with familiar and comfortable.

And then came NBA Live 14. A game which needed only to be stable, solid, and ok in order to be considered a success wasn’t.

It’s a rare thing to have a AAA game releasing which doesn’t necessarily need to be great to be considered a success, it’s rarer still that such low expectations in place simply aren’t met on any level.

There are numerous and maddening questions which must be asked of why EA's basketball product, which has had several years come forth out of development, simply hasn’t come close to being a game which is an acceptable $60 purchase.

No one expected Live 14 was going to live up to the standard NBA 2K has set over the years. No one outside of camp EA even had illusions the game was going to be seen as an equal in quality — I personally wrote several times Live 14 simply needed to get a good and solid foundation of gameplay and online play right to be viable.

Neither happened.

There have been key areas of mismanagement which plague the NBA Live series, and until each is fixed individually, this series has no future.

Mismanaged Expectations

In an interview with the SportsBusiness Daily, EA CEO Andrew Wilson (and former head of EA Sports and ultimately the one responsible for the Live product) said the following:  “The game is releasing. It is happening, and this is very gratifying. We did ourselves absolutely no favors, but it was still the right decision in both instances. We’ve now built a great game, shifting focus entirely to the next-generation consoles, and are looking forward to getting back out there and competing in the marketplace. But we also know it will be a multiyear process.”

That quote was handed down on November 18, 2013, one day before the game released.

That was also one day before the reviews of the ‘great game’ which was ‘gratifying’ began to Metacritic in the 30s or 40s, depending on your platform.

In an interview with Review Fix, executive producer Sean O’Brien said when asked how he’d like NBA Live 14 to be remembered, “…that we stayed focused and delivered on our vision that NBA LIVE 14 is great basketball video game for the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. If we do that, I feel we’ve made progress in returning the NBA LIVE franchise and establishing a strong foundation for the future.”

When asked on Twitter if Live 14 had a chance against NBA 2K14, O’Brien answered, “of course.”

Reading these quotes, one of two things must be true: Either EA knew they were sitting on an absolutely horrible game and people promoting it publicly were lying about its condition or, perhaps worse, they actually thought the game was good.

Neither of the above scenarios promotes the idea that the future of the EA basketball product actually rests in viability and any future efforts, if there are to be any, must have radical differences to how the promotion and expectations of the game is handled.

The truth is, the act of trying to be authentic and real with fans has to go away, replaced by what is actual and real authenticity. EA cannot say or imply they are releasing a great basketball game which can compete in the marketplace if the game you are producing is simply not going to make it there.

EA’s number one task this year was to release a product which manages to build trust with what would be their future core audience on the new generation of consoles — one could make the argument, compellingly, that EA not only didn’t do that, but they actually have irreparably ruined trust forever when it comes to their basketball product.

If NBA Live is to have a future as a series, one thing has to happen and it has to happen quickly — there has to be an open and honest dialogue about the game like we’ve never seen before from EA on any previous product. Consumers have to be let in to the entire process, and we have to see the game being built — and we have to see the current mess fixed.

The only way EA is going to gain enough trust to have anything more than a few misguided parents plopping $60 down on this game next year is to get people involved like never before in a AAA title. Anything less and people are simply not going to trust the company’s basketball efforts.

Mismanaged Foundation

Perhaps the most puzzling move of the entire EA Sports Basketball debacle was the series of decisions after the release of NBA Live 10.

In NBA Live 10, EA Sports had just released a product which not only competed but in many ways bested 2Ks effort that same year. Everything seemed to finally be working right, and EA basketball was on track for a better tomorrow.

And gamers? Well gamers were set to enjoy what was going to be a fantastic future of basketball gaming.

The answer to that successful year, of course, was to completely scrap the game, the name, the foundational gameplay and start all over — at least, that’s what EA chose to do.

One has to wonder what led to those sorts of decisions being made after NBA Live 10 had such a successful release — it’s not the first or only time a company has done something as foolish, but such decisions are usually made out of desperation or legal position weakness, not from strategically minded and confident positions that EA should have found themselves in.

Think about it this way, had NBA Live 14 been built off of the NBA Live 10 engine, this year’s game could probably have done no worse than a 60% on Metacritic. Theoretically of course, but it's hard to imagine such a solid game which improved visuals and some subtle gameplay enhancements not getting received warmly by at least some.

Such a game was exactly the type of effort Live needed to produce too. Instead, from what we know, the series has been scrapped and code based dumped no less than twice since the last NBA Live release in late 2009.

This mismanagement has set the product back valuable years on getting the core basketball experience right while the competition continues to refine even the finest parts of the game of basketball.

As I said earlier in this column, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that competition is not needed — and now with Live 14 releasing with so many fundamental basketball gaffes — one has to wonder where any of the old Live 10 code went off to.

NBA Live product has to develop a competent foundation which can be built off of for the game of basketball. This process has to start immediately with important and much needed fixes to their current product which our own Jayson Young has outlined in the How To Fix NBA Live 14 article.

Mismanaged Vision

There was one common thread between NBA Elite 11 and NBA Live 14: both were banking on a dribbling engine being the thing which made gamers want to play their product over the 2K series.

And while yes, dribbling is an incredibly important piece of basketball — Live 14’s execution of a new dribbling system is actually inferior to 2K14’s improved dribbling mechanics. Focusing on such a narrow window of gameplay to best the competition on, and then losing in that small area is a recipe for disaster (which Live 14 currently is).

And granted, I’m writing this piece from the comfort of my home as a gaming and sports journalist, but the vision behind Live 14 and the Live series in particular, has been horribly flawed over the past several years.

Live 14 does something incredibly well, it has an amazing amount of strategic depth which could easily be leveraged if a competent game of basketball could be played on the court. Another thing Live 14 could have leveraged was an easier to pick up and master game of basketball — instead the game was perhaps more convoluted than 2K14 when it comes to mastering the intricacies of the game.

Even Ultimate Team feels mailed in with Live 14, with scant features compared to other offerings from EA.

Going forward, NBA Live can have a future but developers have to bring a vision which matches what is already in place. The game’s focus on strategic depth is something which should be expanded upon, but going forward the game has to find a way to differentiate itself from 2K14.

Becoming even more complex and convoluted is not the answer. I believe the game would benefit from a simpler approach with controls to allow the game to appear to play a much better game of basketball.

It is very possible the intense effort to try to get so many different controls and transistions perfect led to the gameplay being unnecessarily complex and thus the focus of development with the on-court action was so diffuse that we didn’t get a solid core of basketball.

If Live 15 exists, the game needs to be simplified and it needs to see the strategic options expanded upon in a way which guides the gamer into and through the in-game strategic options.

Live 15 will have to deliver a game which plays the basics of basketball well along with strategic depth which the game not only explains but actually presents in a compelling manner, there would be an angle EA could run with on the court.

Ultimately, the answer in establishing a vision for the NBA Live series is a simpler game of basketball which literally is built for fans by fans. Which brings us full circle.

The Future of EA Basketball

It’s simple: EA has a lot of fixes and about faces to do and a lot of medicine to take in order to secure a future in basketball.

An open and honest discussion about where the series is and where it is heading is the best possible course of action. At this point, you will gain more consumer goodwill by that than you will lose strategic advantage over the competition.

It is 2013, almost 2014. Openness and honesty, as well as authenticity and access are rewarded by consumers by loyalty when it comes time to check out. Imagine if fans were allowed access and an open window into the Live 15 development cycle and we were all updated on what was worked on and what the team is up to. Imagine what kind of good will could be created if at the same time, we were shown how the developers were real NBA fans who actually love basketball.

NBA Live has to be considered a desperate endeavor at this point — meaning that the company has literally nothing to lose if it is committed to delivering another basketball product.

I am not willing to give up on the Live franchise, as I believe the more sports games we have on the market, the better we all are. I also believe there is room for a second basketball title, but that opening comes with an expiration date which is approaching fast.

Doing things the traditional way isn’t going to result in EA basketball being viable in the future. No matter what EA does, they are not going to succeed with NBA Live 15 if they simply do what they've always done and control the conversation and have it be a one way conversation.

I see little way for the game to improve enough to justify that approach and what little trust potential fans had is now gone after the disastrous NBA Live 14.

To be cliche for a second: desperate times do call for desperate measures — and doing things radically different with a theoretical NBA Live 15 might be so crazy, it just might work.


NBA Live 14 Videos
Member Comments
# 181 Slater James @ 12/11/13 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackceasar
And I'm not sure what you mean by "miraculous" place... EA has a TON of money.. enough to buy an NFL License.. its not like bad sales of live (or that Elite 11) travesty would stop them from making a game. They have money and resources to publish Live every year regardless of what happens with the "other game".

You are romanticising something that just doesnt need it.
What I mean is this, this game should be dead and its not (in terms of gamers giving a damn about its existence). And for reasons that are mostly born of the competition's varied incompetence. I'll hedge my next few statements and keep them as general as possible to avoid confusion.

In the end, if EA puts out a product (and by that I'm talking the game itself to go along with support) that is deemed "good" they will have a lot less trouble than they should getting back in people's consoles. Considering where this franchise has been and where it could have potentially wound up I think thats amazing.


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# 182 Slater James @ 12/11/13 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
And this "reclaim their place" talk baffles me. It screams of the EA arrogance that is so pervasive in their marketing. As if being the top brand is their entitlement. And some fans buy right into it. I think that's why they don't do **** with their games. They didn't deserve the status and they need to learn how to really earn it in ALL of their titles.


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You're conflating what I've said with this preconceived notion you state. You've misunderstood me.



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# 183 shutdown10 @ 12/11/13 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Poopador
i was referring to fox sports. one of the greatest parts about the pc version of nba 2k is the modding community. plenty of different scorebugs (like tnt and fox sports) to replace the generic one that 2k uses. and again they dont even need an official license as 2k has done just fine without one. as far as commentary there are plenty of options out there. ea and 2k have a combined five commentators in their game. are you trying to tell me there are only five people who broadcast nba games?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ers#ESPN.2FABC

theres a list of all the possible real life broadcasters.
I'm telling you that another company is not going to get into basketball with these two established companies already taking up most of the resources. Look what happen to Madden when NFL 2k bolstered their overall resources in that game. That lead to EA making that deal with the NFL to purchase their license to be the only football game on the market. If a company comes in and makes a generic NBA basketball game, then it will end up like Back breaker, which was a one and done because of very poor sales and no profit. Next a game company will not be able to use those ESPN commentators because they work for Espn. We are in a time where only two sports games from different companies can be allowed in a video game market. NBA live was gone for three years, but they were still under contract with all their licenses. I guarantee you if they would have called it quits three years ago, then another company would have emerged by now to compete with 2k with the void for another basketball game.
 
# 184 ProfessaPackMan @ 12/11/13 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF
I'll stand behind my "hyperbole" statement.
I respect it, bro. Stand by your beliefs.

Just know that it's not accurate at all unless you want to point out the things that are in this game that has not been in any Bball game in the last 10 years, which you probably won't but it's cool.

Like I said, I respect it. #dapsup
 
# 185 Sundown @ 12/11/13 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDog10
The biggest problem I'm seeing after having spent a lot of time with game is the points in the paint. It's not always a problem, but I'd say maybe 3 out of every 5 games or so. Going back to the point you made about "hop step circus layups with Andrew Bynum", there are certain stretches of the game where you see that happening. And that's because you really can't "body up" someone in the post once they have the ball. So a lot of times, it results in an easy bucket for the CPU and it's usually an ugly animation too, LOL.

I guess any video game is what you make of it. But, I do think Live plays a good game of single player basketball. It's far from perfect, but it's also not nearly as bad as so many people make it out to be. It's stopped me from playing 2K outside of human vs. human games.
That's one key thing I forgot in which Live bears no resemblance to real basketball. There's no physicality in the paint.

I understand that some games have enough good that one or two flaws shouldn't deter you from the game if you they can be managed. 2K happens to be that game for me and some of the issues WTF dislikes can be rectified with sliders.

I just can't see how Live is superior in enough ways (or any way) that matters-- it looks bad, it feels bad, its most vaunted feature (dribbling) is actually terribly implemented and feels primitive, and it's horrible inside the paint and not especially good anywhere else.
 
# 186 Pared @ 12/11/13 07:55 PM
I played the demo again the night before last... And I still feel this article is quite on the mark.

Any type of good I can see in this game is me looking at what "potential" is there. I had the same eye when I was looking at Sony's title. There were some nice elements... but it does not belong "in the running" of being a solid, complete title in my mind. If this is a building block and someone told me three years from now the game will be better I would believe you. But as is....
 
# 187 Boilerbuzz @ 12/11/13 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Poopador
i was referring to fox sports. one of the greatest parts about the pc version of nba 2k is the modding community. plenty of different scorebugs (like tnt and fox sports) to replace the generic one that 2k uses. and again they dont even need an official license as 2k has done just fine without one. as far as commentary there are plenty of options out there. ea and 2k have a combined five commentators in their game. are you trying to tell me there are only five people who broadcast nba games?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ers#ESPN.2FABC

theres a list of all the possible real life broadcasters.
Guys, Fox just carries the local rights. There is no national recognition for that license. Those games that are picked up, though, are branded NBA TV. So that would work. But, again, there is very little that is recognizable in that.


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# 188 Boilerbuzz @ 12/11/13 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDog10
I'm done posting in this particular thread. I'm well aware that I shouldn't be enjoying this game. But I'll stick to the impressions thread where there are a handful of other people that are enjoying it.
You guys hurt the man's feelings or something?


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# 189 Boilerbuzz @ 12/11/13 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater James
What I mean is this, this game should be dead and its not (in terms of gamers giving a damn about its existence). And for reasons that are mostly born of the competition's varied incompetence. I'll hedge my next few statements and keep them as general as possible to avoid confusion.
Not true. EA, unfortunately has always had a loyal to sympathetic following. There are a lot of them. Even if the competition was flawless, there are still those people that would play Live.


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# 190 DonWuan @ 12/11/13 11:04 PM
So quick question.

So with some people enjoying the game does that ruin some evil plan for EA to cancel the future games?

Is the thought process that since some enjoying the game, that EA/Live Devs will get ultra lazy since we accept such pure trash.

Where are the numbers coming from of sold copies. Very small sample size but atl/smyrna/vinings area there are no copies of either game at my 2 walmarts, bestbuy, toys r us(biggest in area). Assuming because EA is on the box. There will be pissed off kids come christmas time.
 
# 191 Slater James @ 12/11/13 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
Not true. EA, unfortunately has always had a loyal to sympathetic following. There are a lot of them. Even if the competition was flawless, there are still those people that would play Live.


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If the competition was "flawless" this board would look much like it did in the aftermath of Elite once the shock and morbid curiosity wore off and the game was ultimately cancelled.

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# 192 King_B_Mack @ 12/11/13 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonWuan
So quick question.

So with some people enjoying the game does that ruin some evil plan for EA to cancel the future games?

Is the thought process that since some enjoying the game, that EA/Live Devs will get ultra lazy since we accept such pure trash.

Where are the numbers coming from of sold copies. Very small sample size but atl/smyrna/vinings area there are no copies of either game at my 2 walmarts, bestbuy, toys r us(biggest in area). Assuming because EA is on the box. There will be pissed off kids come christmas time.
Bro, your local stores being out of the game isn't indication of booming Live sales as you're trying to imply. If Walmart brought in ten copies of that but had 50 copies of Battlefield to sell...yeah, I shouldn't have to finish this sentence for you to see where it's going.
 
# 193 DonWuan @ 12/11/13 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_B_Mack
Bro, your local stores being out of the game isn't indication of booming Live sales as you're trying to imply. If Walmart brought in ten copies of that but had 50 copies of Battlefield to sell...yeah, I shouldn't have to finish this sentence for you to see where it's going.
Wasnt implying my fellow OSer, looking for Knack and some other stuff while shopping(for the wife) and just thought, damn no copies of Live.

Originally I wouldn't have paid 2cents but got it for $30.

But any official numbers of sales for this release?

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# 194 King_B_Mack @ 12/12/13 12:21 AM
**** is not pretty man.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/74703/nba-live-14/Global/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/74165/nba-2k14/Global/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/72629/m...nfl-25/Global/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/73754/f...cer-14/Global/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/73201/s...-force/Global/

Doesn't matter how many of you guys are enjoying this game. Numbers like that doesn't normally equal "more of the same." Not at that address anyway.
 
# 195 DonWuan @ 12/12/13 01:03 AM
Thanks for posting that.

The lazy gamer.

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# 196 bumpyface @ 12/12/13 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonWuan
At the end of the day there is probably no point in posting anything good about Live. Game looks like ****, animations look like **** and they have admitted to the game being subpar. But the graphics whore I am(mainly Pc player) why am I having fun with this game. Game that decided my purchase was from the Demo. Warriors(me) vs OKC, greatest virtual basketball game Ive played since Ben Wallace was on the cover. Those moments when OKC was playing true to themselves, double overtime victory for myself. Never felt cheated, still a little high from that game.


I dont think either game represent basketball simulation. As Live might look uglier doing it, I have about the same amounts of WTF was that type moments in both games.

I do agree with everyone. Everything about this game should/could have been done 100x better. EA has the resources if they were serious about competition. Keep the core, fire the art people and need to see a massive increase in every area of the game.

Side note, I purchased it from Amazon Warehouse for 30ish dollars.
Nice post man. I've been playing video games for 25 years! Yes, 25 years. I love basketball and I think I've played nearly every basketball game that has been released. With that being said, I haven't played a so-called basketball game that felt like basketball in YEARS. 2k11 may have been that last one.
 
# 197 DonWuan @ 12/12/13 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpyface
Nice post man. I've been playing video games for 25 years! Yes, 25 years. I love basketball and I think I've played nearly every basketball game that has been released. With that being said, I haven't played a so-called basketball game that felt like basketball in YEARS. 2k11 may have been that last one.
I would love to say we are headed in the right direction but ultimately no.

2k needs to do some major work on their engine. Legacy issues tagged along for next gen. Ea overhaul of everything. Put tons of money into it and find a team they can believe in and maintain year to year.

They both have a different take on bball. Both games have their pros and con's. The reason we all favor Live/2k is the flashes of bball we do see. Neither is perfect and both can look really ugly at times.

I'm praying 2k releases nextgen style on PC next release. And hopefully Live comes full forced next year.



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# 198 El_Poopador @ 12/12/13 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutdown10
I'm telling you that another company is not going to get into basketball with these two established companies already taking up most of the resources. Look what happen to Madden when NFL 2k bolstered their overall resources in that game. That lead to EA making that deal with the NFL to purchase their license to be the only football game on the market. If a company comes in and makes a generic NBA basketball game, then it will end up like Back breaker, which was a one and done because of very poor sales and no profit. Next a game company will not be able to use those ESPN commentators because they work for Espn. We are in a time where only two sports games from different companies can be allowed in a video game market. NBA live was gone for three years, but they were still under contract with all their licenses. I guarantee you if they would have called it quits three years ago, then another company would have emerged by now to compete with 2k with the void for another basketball game.
two established companies? right now ea is anything but established in nba gaming. after elite 11 and live 13 they actually have more work to do to earn trust. what resources are taken up? 2k has three commentators and ea has espn. do you really believe that there is no one else out there they can use? espn is not the only station in town. do you remember apf 2k8? that game had nothing. no real life broadcast package no real life commentators not even the nfl license. the game was essentially a port of nfl 2k5. and that was on top of being very bare bones in the modes department. that game sold upwards of 400K copies. 400K without even real teams. nba 2k14 doesnt have a real life broadcast package either. they both use the 2k sports network. even nfl 2k5 didnt have real life broadcasters. so if a commentary team and broadcast package is your only argument then you dont have an argument. there are any number of local broadcast teams they could go after. even if they had a generic broadcast package and a fake commentary team it could still be good if they put the effort in.

backbreaker didnt sell for a multitude of reasons. it didnt have actual nfl teams. it didnt have ANY commentary. the gameplay didnt receive a warm reception especially in terms of the camera angles. its modes werent fleshed out. there werent many plays to pick from. i could go on. and that game sold over 300K copies. imagine if they actually had great gameplay and ai with solid commentary and real nfl teams. either way that has no place in this conversation because no one holds an exclusive license to the nba.

and if nba live is so bad (as you say it is) then why would that prevent someone else from making a game? if anything that should encourage another team to step up. even if they dont beat 2k they can still produce a game and say hey we beat ea. so that argument still doesnt hold water. by your logic if both nba live and nba 2k were horrible games no other company should even try since there are already two games out there by two different companies. makes perfect sense.
 
# 199 Pared @ 12/12/13 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
Not true. EA, unfortunately has always had a loyal to sympathetic following. There are a lot of them. Even if the competition was flawless, there are still those people that would play Live.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

To be fair, 2k has their own followers who do the same thing at this point.

I enjoy the game immensely, but the fact that so many others can't because of constant crashing and game-crippling glitches is inexcusable. I am sure there are individuals giving those a pass.

People are as vocal about EA's missteps. Remember the left-handed batter glitch in MVP Baseball?
 
# 200 Boilerbuzz @ 12/12/13 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater James
If the competition was "flawless" this board would look much like it did in the aftermath of Elite once the shock and morbid curiosity wore off and the game was ultimately cancelled.

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You mean dead like it is now?


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