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If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

EA Sports had a clear opening opening with NBA Live 14, and they didn’t even realize it.

NBA 2K14 fumbled its launch about as much as 2K Sports could manage, which is to say — there are still some problems, a few of which are quite serious which consumers are facing, but the game is largely quite good.

Connectivity issues, save file issues with MyCAREER, crashes, and some old legacy gameplay issues are hampering the product at this point. A patch has fixed some issues, but many remain it appears.

In all reality, there is a lot you can find wrong with NBA 2K14 if you look hard enough.

The biggest thing is of course, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that there is no need for a competitor. In fact, a few of the things 2K14 doesn’t do so well such as co-op seasons and a more traditional set of game modes, much less what is still one of the most complex control schemes in sports gaming, gave EA Sports every opportunity to step up to the plate and deliver something new and fresh along with familiar and comfortable.

And then came NBA Live 14. A game which needed only to be stable, solid, and ok in order to be considered a success wasn’t.

It’s a rare thing to have a AAA game releasing which doesn’t necessarily need to be great to be considered a success, it’s rarer still that such low expectations in place simply aren’t met on any level.

There are numerous and maddening questions which must be asked of why EA's basketball product, which has had several years come forth out of development, simply hasn’t come close to being a game which is an acceptable $60 purchase.

No one expected Live 14 was going to live up to the standard NBA 2K has set over the years. No one outside of camp EA even had illusions the game was going to be seen as an equal in quality — I personally wrote several times Live 14 simply needed to get a good and solid foundation of gameplay and online play right to be viable.

Neither happened.

There have been key areas of mismanagement which plague the NBA Live series, and until each is fixed individually, this series has no future.

Mismanaged Expectations

In an interview with the SportsBusiness Daily, EA CEO Andrew Wilson (and former head of EA Sports and ultimately the one responsible for the Live product) said the following:  “The game is releasing. It is happening, and this is very gratifying. We did ourselves absolutely no favors, but it was still the right decision in both instances. We’ve now built a great game, shifting focus entirely to the next-generation consoles, and are looking forward to getting back out there and competing in the marketplace. But we also know it will be a multiyear process.”

That quote was handed down on November 18, 2013, one day before the game released.

That was also one day before the reviews of the ‘great game’ which was ‘gratifying’ began to Metacritic in the 30s or 40s, depending on your platform.

In an interview with Review Fix, executive producer Sean O’Brien said when asked how he’d like NBA Live 14 to be remembered, “…that we stayed focused and delivered on our vision that NBA LIVE 14 is great basketball video game for the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. If we do that, I feel we’ve made progress in returning the NBA LIVE franchise and establishing a strong foundation for the future.”

When asked on Twitter if Live 14 had a chance against NBA 2K14, O’Brien answered, “of course.”

Reading these quotes, one of two things must be true: Either EA knew they were sitting on an absolutely horrible game and people promoting it publicly were lying about its condition or, perhaps worse, they actually thought the game was good.

Neither of the above scenarios promotes the idea that the future of the EA basketball product actually rests in viability and any future efforts, if there are to be any, must have radical differences to how the promotion and expectations of the game is handled.

The truth is, the act of trying to be authentic and real with fans has to go away, replaced by what is actual and real authenticity. EA cannot say or imply they are releasing a great basketball game which can compete in the marketplace if the game you are producing is simply not going to make it there.

EA’s number one task this year was to release a product which manages to build trust with what would be their future core audience on the new generation of consoles — one could make the argument, compellingly, that EA not only didn’t do that, but they actually have irreparably ruined trust forever when it comes to their basketball product.

If NBA Live is to have a future as a series, one thing has to happen and it has to happen quickly — there has to be an open and honest dialogue about the game like we’ve never seen before from EA on any previous product. Consumers have to be let in to the entire process, and we have to see the game being built — and we have to see the current mess fixed.

The only way EA is going to gain enough trust to have anything more than a few misguided parents plopping $60 down on this game next year is to get people involved like never before in a AAA title. Anything less and people are simply not going to trust the company’s basketball efforts.

Mismanaged Foundation

Perhaps the most puzzling move of the entire EA Sports Basketball debacle was the series of decisions after the release of NBA Live 10.

In NBA Live 10, EA Sports had just released a product which not only competed but in many ways bested 2Ks effort that same year. Everything seemed to finally be working right, and EA basketball was on track for a better tomorrow.

And gamers? Well gamers were set to enjoy what was going to be a fantastic future of basketball gaming.

The answer to that successful year, of course, was to completely scrap the game, the name, the foundational gameplay and start all over — at least, that’s what EA chose to do.

One has to wonder what led to those sorts of decisions being made after NBA Live 10 had such a successful release — it’s not the first or only time a company has done something as foolish, but such decisions are usually made out of desperation or legal position weakness, not from strategically minded and confident positions that EA should have found themselves in.

Think about it this way, had NBA Live 14 been built off of the NBA Live 10 engine, this year’s game could probably have done no worse than a 60% on Metacritic. Theoretically of course, but it's hard to imagine such a solid game which improved visuals and some subtle gameplay enhancements not getting received warmly by at least some.

Such a game was exactly the type of effort Live needed to produce too. Instead, from what we know, the series has been scrapped and code based dumped no less than twice since the last NBA Live release in late 2009.

This mismanagement has set the product back valuable years on getting the core basketball experience right while the competition continues to refine even the finest parts of the game of basketball.

As I said earlier in this column, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that competition is not needed — and now with Live 14 releasing with so many fundamental basketball gaffes — one has to wonder where any of the old Live 10 code went off to.

NBA Live product has to develop a competent foundation which can be built off of for the game of basketball. This process has to start immediately with important and much needed fixes to their current product which our own Jayson Young has outlined in the How To Fix NBA Live 14 article.

Mismanaged Vision

There was one common thread between NBA Elite 11 and NBA Live 14: both were banking on a dribbling engine being the thing which made gamers want to play their product over the 2K series.

And while yes, dribbling is an incredibly important piece of basketball — Live 14’s execution of a new dribbling system is actually inferior to 2K14’s improved dribbling mechanics. Focusing on such a narrow window of gameplay to best the competition on, and then losing in that small area is a recipe for disaster (which Live 14 currently is).

And granted, I’m writing this piece from the comfort of my home as a gaming and sports journalist, but the vision behind Live 14 and the Live series in particular, has been horribly flawed over the past several years.

Live 14 does something incredibly well, it has an amazing amount of strategic depth which could easily be leveraged if a competent game of basketball could be played on the court. Another thing Live 14 could have leveraged was an easier to pick up and master game of basketball — instead the game was perhaps more convoluted than 2K14 when it comes to mastering the intricacies of the game.

Even Ultimate Team feels mailed in with Live 14, with scant features compared to other offerings from EA.

Going forward, NBA Live can have a future but developers have to bring a vision which matches what is already in place. The game’s focus on strategic depth is something which should be expanded upon, but going forward the game has to find a way to differentiate itself from 2K14.

Becoming even more complex and convoluted is not the answer. I believe the game would benefit from a simpler approach with controls to allow the game to appear to play a much better game of basketball.

It is very possible the intense effort to try to get so many different controls and transistions perfect led to the gameplay being unnecessarily complex and thus the focus of development with the on-court action was so diffuse that we didn’t get a solid core of basketball.

If Live 15 exists, the game needs to be simplified and it needs to see the strategic options expanded upon in a way which guides the gamer into and through the in-game strategic options.

Live 15 will have to deliver a game which plays the basics of basketball well along with strategic depth which the game not only explains but actually presents in a compelling manner, there would be an angle EA could run with on the court.

Ultimately, the answer in establishing a vision for the NBA Live series is a simpler game of basketball which literally is built for fans by fans. Which brings us full circle.

The Future of EA Basketball

It’s simple: EA has a lot of fixes and about faces to do and a lot of medicine to take in order to secure a future in basketball.

An open and honest discussion about where the series is and where it is heading is the best possible course of action. At this point, you will gain more consumer goodwill by that than you will lose strategic advantage over the competition.

It is 2013, almost 2014. Openness and honesty, as well as authenticity and access are rewarded by consumers by loyalty when it comes time to check out. Imagine if fans were allowed access and an open window into the Live 15 development cycle and we were all updated on what was worked on and what the team is up to. Imagine what kind of good will could be created if at the same time, we were shown how the developers were real NBA fans who actually love basketball.

NBA Live has to be considered a desperate endeavor at this point — meaning that the company has literally nothing to lose if it is committed to delivering another basketball product.

I am not willing to give up on the Live franchise, as I believe the more sports games we have on the market, the better we all are. I also believe there is room for a second basketball title, but that opening comes with an expiration date which is approaching fast.

Doing things the traditional way isn’t going to result in EA basketball being viable in the future. No matter what EA does, they are not going to succeed with NBA Live 15 if they simply do what they've always done and control the conversation and have it be a one way conversation.

I see little way for the game to improve enough to justify that approach and what little trust potential fans had is now gone after the disastrous NBA Live 14.

To be cliche for a second: desperate times do call for desperate measures — and doing things radically different with a theoretical NBA Live 15 might be so crazy, it just might work.


NBA Live 14 Videos
Member Comments
# 21 Pared @ 12/06/13 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yungflo
Wasn't the community involved before and ea kinda just shrugged them off? I remember the days of reanimator , they use to be much more active here until they got heat for 11. I hope they are active again.
We were. I and a few others spent days going over what to do to improve the game. You know all those "little" and "petty" complaints OSer's had? We could have addressed them and then some. I gave them a full blown controller scheme that complimented what they had and was radically different from 2k's approach. All of it was just a waste of time.

Sad part is there were a few good guys there too who really took to heart what we said. I know there are guys like Ryan who are extremely talented in what they do. There is no reason Live can't succeed.

2k has listened to their community more closely than the general public knows. There is a reason they are where they are and it is more than just talented individuals. When EA's team realizes that, maybe we will be invited back and taken more seriously.
 
# 22 aholbert32 @ 12/06/13 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Poopador
fans dont prefer it because its not pretty and its not what theyre used to. the problem is that no one gives it a chance because of the graphics. the few people on here who have gone back to play it since 2k doesnt work have said its much better than they originally thought.

i dont listen to reviews for sports games because they generally dont play them enough to really understand the game. that goes for any sports game not just this one. i watched igns reviewers play both live and 2k14 and they looked like monkeys playing both.
I dont prefer it because its not pretty and doesnt resemble NBA basketball.
 
# 23 eye guy @ 12/06/13 11:43 PM
NBA Live 10 was definitely the best basketball of that season and EA's best effort on current gen, maybe the best in the Live history. What's also sad is that, NBA Street Homecourt looks better than Live 14 lol... I was one of the many that were going EA would build off the foundation that was Live 10. It wasn't to be.

In my opinion, EA scrapped Live 10's foundation because it would become too similar to 2K basketball. Maybe that's why it was such a success? Either that or Mr Wang leaving with his input changed it all?
 
# 24 Tsuki @ 12/07/13 02:19 AM
I am currently playing NBA Homecourt since 2K14 and Live are both tweaking.

And Homecourt plays way better than live.
 
# 25 tril @ 12/07/13 06:45 AM
alot of useless arguments.
the EA vs 2k debate = belonging to the Democratic party or the Republican party.
IMO the lines have been clearly drawn on OS.
In addition, EA has to go above and beyond what 2k does to even have a chance. a decent game will not cut it. the bar has been set by 2k, and its pretty high.
 
# 26 jwtucker710 @ 12/07/13 08:12 AM
People should wait six months or a year before going on board with the Next-Gen game systems.
Two things: A). programmers are still learning the ins and outs of the consoles power and what they can do. The first round of games are not going to be all that great. Going to be glitches. Some might look awesome and play great, but give it some time for the sports games to evolve. I get it, though: we live in an impatient society. B). I'm not sure why or how EA botched the new NBA LIVE for the Next-Gen consoles. They had time, but we really don't know what all went down in their studios. We all know that EA Sports is very capable of making solid sports video games. NCAA FB 14, Madden 25, FIFA, and NHL series. I think part of the issue is profit to cost ratio. Maybe they will get a new production team together and do something totally different with LIVE 15? Who knows? Basketball video games are generally not money-makers. Small % plays them. I do miss my college BB video game, though. 2K8 College Hoops … can't do it anymore. Great game … just outdated graphics. I think perhaps we've seen the last of College sports games, at least until the NCAA and people can work out a legit deal without legal threats.
Crazy.
 
# 27 Dr. Poe @ 12/07/13 08:23 AM
There is no opening. 2k had the best next gen game out. Live has to do some dramatic changes in order to compete.
1. Need to improve graphics
2. Need to improve presentation
3. Need to improve controls
 
# 28 aholbert32 @ 12/07/13 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tril
alot of useless arguments.
the EA vs 2k debate = belonging to the Democratic party or the Republican party.
IMO the lines have been clearly drawn on OS.
In addition, EA has to go above and beyond what 2k does to even have a chance. a decent game will not cut it. the bar has been set by 2k, and its pretty high.
This is complete BS. Many would argue that Live 10 wasnt better than NBA2k10 but Live 10 got ALOT of love on OS because it was a good basketball game that gave NBA fans another option.

Its crazy how EA can come out with a subpar video game (which they even admitted was subpar) and OS gets blamed for saying its a crap game.
 
# 29 tril @ 12/07/13 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aholbert32
This is complete BS. Many would argue that Live 10 wasnt better than NBA2k10 but Live 10 got ALOT of love on OS because it was a good basketball game that gave NBA fans another option.

Its crazy how EA can come out with a subpar video game (which they even admitted was subpar) and OS gets blamed for saying its a crap game.
I sincerely believe that LIve 10 got the majority of its good reviews from EA supporters.
Live 10 IMO opinion was way overrated here on OS. thats why I stated my original comment. Again, with next gen, EA has to go above and beyond. Seriously, a decent games will not cut it, especially when it comes to EA. Either they come correct with a sim, or change focus all together
 
# 30 Scribe1980 @ 12/07/13 02:25 PM
Left out the most important thing:

If EA is even going to attempt another NBA effort, the name Live must now be buried and forgotten. Forever this time.

It is poison.
 
# 31 datruth251 @ 12/07/13 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackceasar
Dude you're comparing apples to oranges. GTA has great graphics.. they have a certain STYLE. It's called ART DIRECTION. GTA5 looks the way it does because that was the art direction for the game. Also, they can go down that route because games like GTA 5 are not trying to replicate something in the real world for authenticity sake.

Bringing up COD, just stop. The graphics arent BAD.. they just don't look any different on next gen than from current gen that much.. but its not like it looked AWFUL on current gen to begin with. So you really need to just stop on the COD thing.. this choice of game was a weak choice to make your point.

Now a SPORTS GAME. I mean one that falls in line with major sports where you are REPLICATING things from the real world.. (players, uniforms, animations, etc) then the quality of the game can factor in the graphics and animations. When you put an NBA or NFL logo on your game to sell it.. and one of the draws to people buying your game is because it's got the same players and teams, and etc etc from the real life counterpart, then you legitimately as a company open the door to be judged on just how close you ARE coming to the real thing. LIVE DOES NOT DO THIS, WHICH IS WHY 99% OF PUBS GAVE IT REALLY LOW SCORES.

To make my point even further.. Look at a game like Hot Shots golf. It's always got great reviews and the graphics don't look realisitc at all.. but they DONT HAVE TO because Hot Shots Golf wasn't slapping the PGA TOUR LOGO ON THE COVER WITH A PICTURE OF A REAL GOLFER.

Make sense or was that over your head?
Couldn't have said it better myself
 
# 32 Boilerbuzz @ 12/08/13 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTiCe_O

In my opinion, what NBA Live is doing with the franchise right now is great for competitive gaming. The game is much more skill based than 2k and that alone sets it apart from the competition. The fact that you
actually have to "learn" how to play before becoming successful is great.
I'm sorry, but how do you come to this conclusion? I see no basis for this. I've seen very little PvP Live gameplay that would support any such claim. And all anyone has posted here has been the six Live zealots posting sandbox videos and how the more they play it, the more they love it. (I call these the "Jedi Mind-trick" posts) Those are funny. But how in the world is Live so "skill based" (da-hell does that even mean, anyway)? I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to know what makes you feel this claim is valid.

The bottom line of the OP is that this was their chance to make up ground. And whether you like the game or not, the fact remains that the game is failing. It doesn't matter if you think it's a good game. If the vast majority of gamers don't want a game that is your idea of "good", then you won't have a game. It should also tell you that you need to reevaluate your sense of judgement, frankly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
# 33 Flightwhite24 @ 12/08/13 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
I'm sorry, but how do you come to this conclusion? I see no basis for this. I've seen very little PvP Live gameplay that would support any such claim. And all anyone has posted here has been the six Live zealots posting sandbox videos and how the more they play it, the more they love it. (I call these the "Jedi Mind-trick" posts) Those are funny. But how in the world is Live so "skill based" (da-hell does that even mean, anyway)? I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to know what makes you feel this claim is valid.

The bottom line of the OP is that this was their chance to make up ground. And whether you like the game or not, the fact remains that the game is failing. It doesn't matter if you think it's a good game. If the vast majority of gamers don't want a game that is your idea of "good", then you won't have a game. It should also tell you that you need to reevaluate your sense of judgement, frankly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Hilarious how almost every thread that you chime in on if impressions aren't in line with yours we are the issue/clueless. Lol

You do know that our opinions have about the same weight as yours on forums right??

It's cool Boilerbuzz if you don't like the game. I get it.


Sent from my iPhone
 
# 34 AlreadyKnoJ @ 12/08/13 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NUH_UHHHHHHHHHHH
Poor graphics dont deter people from buying GTA5 and COD. Those two games basically had the same graphics last gen and still continue to dominate in sales. Those games have an addicitve gameplay that keep its gamers coming back over n over.
gta5 had bad graphics?
 
# 35 Pared @ 12/08/13 10:15 AM
I think you guys need to realize that you when you compare this game to other sports games and whether or not it meets consumer expectations it fails.

You can find redeeming qualities in anything; that's only personal opinion. I remember guys really looking at NBA Live 07 and claiming it was so revolutionary others just couldn't grasp it.

Same thing here.
 
# 36 WTF @ 12/08/13 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pared
I think you guys need to realize that you when you compare this game to other sports games and whether or not it meets consumer expectations it fails.

You can find redeeming qualities in anything; that's only personal opinion. I remember guys really looking at NBA Live 07 and claiming it was so revolutionary others just couldn't grasp it.

Same thing here.
It's not the redeeming qualities that I'm seeing. I'm playing a good game of basketball. Whether or not the masses like it or not, that's fine. I know what I'm seeing. You know the type of game that I play. I wouldn't be playing a game if it were garbage.

The game is fun, the game is good, and it's consistently getting better. I just had probably the best game that I've had yet, and I lost in OT to the Thunder as the Pacers, 63-53. In overtime, the Thunder made the strategic move that they were not going to let PG24 beat them. And it ultimately paid off. I tried to go with my other players, and when I wasn't getting the instant satisfaction, I started forcing things with PG. That was the nail in my coffin. It was great.

I saw excellent ball movement by the Thunder, whipping it around the perimeter to beat my zone. My rotations couldn't keep up. I'm finding the rebounders, and boxing them out, then timing my jumps to grab the boards. I'm using my basketball knowledge and rotating when I'm playing zone, or else the CPU knows exactly where to beat it. I saw them get the ball into the middle of my zone, and the baseline cutters cut right to the spots where they should. It is fundamental.

It needs some tweaks, and it needs to be "prettier". That's what I'm seeing. And I'm happy with it.
 
# 37 Pared @ 12/08/13 11:47 AM
Wil - you have ALWAYS been the gamer that is ok with a "potential" bball game though. You've played live (ok, it was 06 not 07) way back in the day and enjoyed it. It's along the same point I just made. In fact, the only reason you stopped playing is because someone stepped on your game disc.

No matter how bad a game is, as long as it has SOME semblance of basketball you are ok. For the general gamer, I think they are looking for more now. It's 2013, almost 2014.

What I am seeing in terms of presentation, gameplay, graphics... this stuff was ok 6-7 years ago. Not now and CERTAINLY not for a series as prominent as Live.
 
# 38 WTF @ 12/08/13 12:00 PM
No, it needs AI. I haven't played a sports title for a long period of time since prior to the Police Academy. I played 2k11 on PC for a little bit, but was moreso of a modder and interested in making the screens look pretty. This games basketball awareness is beyond that of anything out there right now. I can post some videos of the most recent 2k14 game that I played, and I immediately turned it off because of one play.

This game finds the open man when it makes sense. It doesn't have a rubber band AI. There is some clipping issues, but it's not the type where the ball mysteriously finds its way through 3 defenders to allow a score. It's just random legs or hands going through another limb, etc. I've got a clip of 2k14 that the CPU got on their rubber band, I'm going to score no matter what you do, where they drove and dished the ball through... THROUGH the crotch of 3 of my defenders in the paint, and then THROUGH the hand of my attempted block, only to score. That's not a good game. That's a scripted game. It's "pretty" sometimes from afar. But it's not basketball. I can't recall the last time I had a basketball mysteriously morph through my body to allow someone to score. Have you ever went up for a block, only to have the ball go through your forearm for the game tying duece? I've not.

I am glad that people are enjoying the other game. But this is not a "potential" based basketball game. I want one that has good gameplay. It's not pretty animation wise, but the spots the CPU picks on the floor is what I see when I'm playing ball, and when I'm watching the game on tv. The graphics arent' up to par and the "emotion" isn't celebrating like crazy when they've made a superhuman play, and I'm okay with that. I'd rather go back and play NBA Inside Drive 2003/04 to see the cutters running off of screens, hitting their spots, doubling the hot guy, rotating and making true basketball plays.

Graphics, I'll agree. The game isn't a next gen graphics game. But it does play a next gen game. It needs graphical improvements out the wazoo. It needs animations out the wazoo. But it does not need to sacrifice what it does right, to make it another 2k game.

I played 2k12, 2k13, I'd say for about a month. I can't take any more of the scripted style of gameplay. You may be right, as long as it resembles basketball, I'm good. But what I'm seeing the past few years is, well, not basketball. It's pretty sometimes, and has it's highlights moments. But it's not a basketball simulation.

I'll continue to play this title, and enjoy the things that they do right. I'm hoping that gameplay wise, they don't change it much with patches. Add some better textures for players during gameplay. Add the option to edit players, sliders for those that want it. If they can add animations without making it canned, then great. But what I'm seeing from the game, pure gameplay and AI, I'm happy.

Oh, and for the record. NBA Live 07 was a turd. There was no playing that game. None.
 
# 39 RayRay34 @ 12/08/13 01:22 PM
And to think I actually thought these threads would be done with all the EA vs 2k and how sucky Live is instead of actually being productive discussions..... Guess I was wrong. Be back in a few weeks.
 
# 40 Pared @ 12/08/13 01:42 PM
I guess you're going to have to post videos from the full game then. I only have the demo to go off of and this game needs much more than what you mention 2k needs to be a "complete" basketball game both on and off the court. Again, this wasn't about 2k... But compare this to even a game like Madden and this game isn't even close to being worthwhile for a "next-gen" title IMHO.
 


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