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If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

EA Sports had a clear opening opening with NBA Live 14, and they didn’t even realize it.

NBA 2K14 fumbled its launch about as much as 2K Sports could manage, which is to say — there are still some problems, a few of which are quite serious which consumers are facing, but the game is largely quite good.

Connectivity issues, save file issues with MyCAREER, crashes, and some old legacy gameplay issues are hampering the product at this point. A patch has fixed some issues, but many remain it appears.

In all reality, there is a lot you can find wrong with NBA 2K14 if you look hard enough.

The biggest thing is of course, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that there is no need for a competitor. In fact, a few of the things 2K14 doesn’t do so well such as co-op seasons and a more traditional set of game modes, much less what is still one of the most complex control schemes in sports gaming, gave EA Sports every opportunity to step up to the plate and deliver something new and fresh along with familiar and comfortable.

And then came NBA Live 14. A game which needed only to be stable, solid, and ok in order to be considered a success wasn’t.

It’s a rare thing to have a AAA game releasing which doesn’t necessarily need to be great to be considered a success, it’s rarer still that such low expectations in place simply aren’t met on any level.

There are numerous and maddening questions which must be asked of why EA's basketball product, which has had several years come forth out of development, simply hasn’t come close to being a game which is an acceptable $60 purchase.

No one expected Live 14 was going to live up to the standard NBA 2K has set over the years. No one outside of camp EA even had illusions the game was going to be seen as an equal in quality — I personally wrote several times Live 14 simply needed to get a good and solid foundation of gameplay and online play right to be viable.

Neither happened.

There have been key areas of mismanagement which plague the NBA Live series, and until each is fixed individually, this series has no future.

Mismanaged Expectations

In an interview with the SportsBusiness Daily, EA CEO Andrew Wilson (and former head of EA Sports and ultimately the one responsible for the Live product) said the following:  “The game is releasing. It is happening, and this is very gratifying. We did ourselves absolutely no favors, but it was still the right decision in both instances. We’ve now built a great game, shifting focus entirely to the next-generation consoles, and are looking forward to getting back out there and competing in the marketplace. But we also know it will be a multiyear process.”

That quote was handed down on November 18, 2013, one day before the game released.

That was also one day before the reviews of the ‘great game’ which was ‘gratifying’ began to Metacritic in the 30s or 40s, depending on your platform.

In an interview with Review Fix, executive producer Sean O’Brien said when asked how he’d like NBA Live 14 to be remembered, “…that we stayed focused and delivered on our vision that NBA LIVE 14 is great basketball video game for the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. If we do that, I feel we’ve made progress in returning the NBA LIVE franchise and establishing a strong foundation for the future.”

When asked on Twitter if Live 14 had a chance against NBA 2K14, O’Brien answered, “of course.”

Reading these quotes, one of two things must be true: Either EA knew they were sitting on an absolutely horrible game and people promoting it publicly were lying about its condition or, perhaps worse, they actually thought the game was good.

Neither of the above scenarios promotes the idea that the future of the EA basketball product actually rests in viability and any future efforts, if there are to be any, must have radical differences to how the promotion and expectations of the game is handled.

The truth is, the act of trying to be authentic and real with fans has to go away, replaced by what is actual and real authenticity. EA cannot say or imply they are releasing a great basketball game which can compete in the marketplace if the game you are producing is simply not going to make it there.

EA’s number one task this year was to release a product which manages to build trust with what would be their future core audience on the new generation of consoles — one could make the argument, compellingly, that EA not only didn’t do that, but they actually have irreparably ruined trust forever when it comes to their basketball product.

If NBA Live is to have a future as a series, one thing has to happen and it has to happen quickly — there has to be an open and honest dialogue about the game like we’ve never seen before from EA on any previous product. Consumers have to be let in to the entire process, and we have to see the game being built — and we have to see the current mess fixed.

The only way EA is going to gain enough trust to have anything more than a few misguided parents plopping $60 down on this game next year is to get people involved like never before in a AAA title. Anything less and people are simply not going to trust the company’s basketball efforts.

Mismanaged Foundation

Perhaps the most puzzling move of the entire EA Sports Basketball debacle was the series of decisions after the release of NBA Live 10.

In NBA Live 10, EA Sports had just released a product which not only competed but in many ways bested 2Ks effort that same year. Everything seemed to finally be working right, and EA basketball was on track for a better tomorrow.

And gamers? Well gamers were set to enjoy what was going to be a fantastic future of basketball gaming.

The answer to that successful year, of course, was to completely scrap the game, the name, the foundational gameplay and start all over — at least, that’s what EA chose to do.

One has to wonder what led to those sorts of decisions being made after NBA Live 10 had such a successful release — it’s not the first or only time a company has done something as foolish, but such decisions are usually made out of desperation or legal position weakness, not from strategically minded and confident positions that EA should have found themselves in.

Think about it this way, had NBA Live 14 been built off of the NBA Live 10 engine, this year’s game could probably have done no worse than a 60% on Metacritic. Theoretically of course, but it's hard to imagine such a solid game which improved visuals and some subtle gameplay enhancements not getting received warmly by at least some.

Such a game was exactly the type of effort Live needed to produce too. Instead, from what we know, the series has been scrapped and code based dumped no less than twice since the last NBA Live release in late 2009.

This mismanagement has set the product back valuable years on getting the core basketball experience right while the competition continues to refine even the finest parts of the game of basketball.

As I said earlier in this column, NBA 2K14 isn’t so good that competition is not needed — and now with Live 14 releasing with so many fundamental basketball gaffes — one has to wonder where any of the old Live 10 code went off to.

NBA Live product has to develop a competent foundation which can be built off of for the game of basketball. This process has to start immediately with important and much needed fixes to their current product which our own Jayson Young has outlined in the How To Fix NBA Live 14 article.

Mismanaged Vision

There was one common thread between NBA Elite 11 and NBA Live 14: both were banking on a dribbling engine being the thing which made gamers want to play their product over the 2K series.

And while yes, dribbling is an incredibly important piece of basketball — Live 14’s execution of a new dribbling system is actually inferior to 2K14’s improved dribbling mechanics. Focusing on such a narrow window of gameplay to best the competition on, and then losing in that small area is a recipe for disaster (which Live 14 currently is).

And granted, I’m writing this piece from the comfort of my home as a gaming and sports journalist, but the vision behind Live 14 and the Live series in particular, has been horribly flawed over the past several years.

Live 14 does something incredibly well, it has an amazing amount of strategic depth which could easily be leveraged if a competent game of basketball could be played on the court. Another thing Live 14 could have leveraged was an easier to pick up and master game of basketball — instead the game was perhaps more convoluted than 2K14 when it comes to mastering the intricacies of the game.

Even Ultimate Team feels mailed in with Live 14, with scant features compared to other offerings from EA.

Going forward, NBA Live can have a future but developers have to bring a vision which matches what is already in place. The game’s focus on strategic depth is something which should be expanded upon, but going forward the game has to find a way to differentiate itself from 2K14.

Becoming even more complex and convoluted is not the answer. I believe the game would benefit from a simpler approach with controls to allow the game to appear to play a much better game of basketball.

It is very possible the intense effort to try to get so many different controls and transistions perfect led to the gameplay being unnecessarily complex and thus the focus of development with the on-court action was so diffuse that we didn’t get a solid core of basketball.

If Live 15 exists, the game needs to be simplified and it needs to see the strategic options expanded upon in a way which guides the gamer into and through the in-game strategic options.

Live 15 will have to deliver a game which plays the basics of basketball well along with strategic depth which the game not only explains but actually presents in a compelling manner, there would be an angle EA could run with on the court.

Ultimately, the answer in establishing a vision for the NBA Live series is a simpler game of basketball which literally is built for fans by fans. Which brings us full circle.

The Future of EA Basketball

It’s simple: EA has a lot of fixes and about faces to do and a lot of medicine to take in order to secure a future in basketball.

An open and honest discussion about where the series is and where it is heading is the best possible course of action. At this point, you will gain more consumer goodwill by that than you will lose strategic advantage over the competition.

It is 2013, almost 2014. Openness and honesty, as well as authenticity and access are rewarded by consumers by loyalty when it comes time to check out. Imagine if fans were allowed access and an open window into the Live 15 development cycle and we were all updated on what was worked on and what the team is up to. Imagine what kind of good will could be created if at the same time, we were shown how the developers were real NBA fans who actually love basketball.

NBA Live has to be considered a desperate endeavor at this point — meaning that the company has literally nothing to lose if it is committed to delivering another basketball product.

I am not willing to give up on the Live franchise, as I believe the more sports games we have on the market, the better we all are. I also believe there is room for a second basketball title, but that opening comes with an expiration date which is approaching fast.

Doing things the traditional way isn’t going to result in EA basketball being viable in the future. No matter what EA does, they are not going to succeed with NBA Live 15 if they simply do what they've always done and control the conversation and have it be a one way conversation.

I see little way for the game to improve enough to justify that approach and what little trust potential fans had is now gone after the disastrous NBA Live 14.

To be cliche for a second: desperate times do call for desperate measures — and doing things radically different with a theoretical NBA Live 15 might be so crazy, it just might work.


NBA Live 14 Videos
Member Comments
# 121 kennyacid @ 12/10/13 03:48 AM
live will never be complete because ea keeps knocking down the bricks during construction. Never gonna get anywhere by doing that. I hope next game they just built on what they have now. Most of it is under the hood but it's a start.
 
# 122 DogWillHunt @ 12/10/13 06:36 AM
I play on the Xbox One and there has definitely been improvement with graphics and performance, beginning about 3 or 4 days ago.

When I bought the game, Joakim Noah looked like a pasty ninja from a PS2 game. He now looks passable. I can imagine they did this with quite a few players.

I can also say that performance has improved as the low baseline camera no longer chugs as much as it did in the release.

I can also confidently say that they have been adding animations here and there. The passing / catching is not nearly as terrible as it was on release. There seems to be more block / rebound / jump animations as well. It's still not nearly enough, but it's apparent to me anyhow.

The lighting has also been tweaked a bit. It seems like the 'volume' has been dialed up a bit on the ambient occlusion and the reflected light from the court onto the players' jersey. (Try looking at a replay of a white jersey and watch what happens when the player is on top of a colorful logo or something.)

Now, don't quote me on this, but I also think that the baked wrinkles in the jerseys have been redesigned. It no longer brings back horrors of NBA Elite 11, anyways.

Now, that said, graphically, it is still not passable IMO. Fifa is a passable looking Next Gen title... barely. NBA Live needs to, at the very least, achieve something to that standard.

'Under the hood', this is the best basketball game I have ever played. I'm actually fairly decent at it because I know the game of basketball, not because I know the video game ala 2K.

The problem is that I can't play it for very long because it looks so awful.

The Player Models need to be redone entirely, IMO.
 
# 123 Boilerbuzz @ 12/10/13 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogWillHunt
'Under the hood', this is the best basketball game I have ever played. I'm actually fairly decent at it because I know the game of basketball, not because I know the video game ala 2K.

The problem is that I can't play it for very long because it looks so awful.

First sign that the thread is dying: the parrots come out.
 
# 124 ifitbeginsitends @ 12/10/13 10:22 AM
I have been playing the game since release, I must say this is a really good BASKETBALL game! the game is getting better and better! substance-wise its there. it is too much to write but I really really really like this game. it always seems fresh too. I have been playing the rising star season and its strange because I swear its like every team has a scouting report and a plan... the A.I is looking to attack weaknesses and if you run a play really well they try to take it away. and you can't really cheese too much. except in the post. its like the defender gets stuck when the offensive opponent spins.. like pulling the chair should be more responsive. the live team should be commended for being so brave... they took a chance by taking the game off of rails... it doesn't feel scripted at all... I haven't been able to say that about the compitetion
 
# 125 shutdown10 @ 12/10/13 12:35 PM
I'm just glad that we have other review websites and other social media to let EA know that this is not going to cut it anymore. Lets just say I'm happy this is not the only place EA will get feedback from, because the game would never improve looking at the comments this past week. We cannot let them off the hook for this effort. My friend bought this game around Launch, and he got tired of it so he tried to trade it in yesterday, and was only offered 13 dollars from Gamestop. That lets you know this game has a very poor demand in the market. I suggest to all you guys who bought the game to hold on to your copies, because you will not even get 15 dollars credit for it if you try to trade it in now. EA needs to lower the price for this game because that is robbery on the trade in price.
 
# 126 ifitbeginsitends @ 12/10/13 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutdown10
I'm just glad that we have other review websites and other social media to let EA know that this is not going to cut it anymore. Lets just say I'm happy this is not the only place EA will get feedback from, because the game would never improve looking at the comments this past week. We cannot let them off the hook for this effort. My friend bought this game around Launch, and he got tired of it so he tried to trade it in yesterday, and was only offered 13 dollars from Gamestop. That lets you know this game has a very poor demand in the market. I suggest to all you guys who bought the game to hold on to your copies, because you will not even get 15 dollars credit for it if you try to trade it in now. EA needs to lower the price for this game because that is robbery on the trade in price.



just curious, have you played the game yourself? like more then 5 or 6 games played? based on the type of comment this is, it sounds like your posting based on other peoples feedback, and your very own rule of thumb. 2 things that can't be taken seriously
 
# 127 shutdown10 @ 12/10/13 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifitbeginsitends
just curious, have you played the game yourself? like more then 5 or 6 games played? based on the type of comment this is, it sounds like your posting based on other peoples feedback, and your very own rule of thumb. 2 things that can't be taken seriously


I played the game a total of about 9 or 10 times. I downloaded the demo for PS4 and played that, but got to play the full enchilada a few times with my friend who tried to trade the game in yesterday and was only offered 13 bucks by Gamestop. I would not be in this forum making these comments if I never played the game. I don't care if you take my comment serious or not. The masses will not let EA off the hook anymore with this poor effort, and I'm excited for that because they will have to actually try this time.
 
# 128 ProfessaPackMan @ 12/10/13 01:54 PM
There is a lot of STRONG hyperbole going on in this thread, especially in the last few pages LOL.

"Seeing stuff hasn't been seen in NBA games in the last 10 years"? Alright now, we can tone it down a bit there.

And what's up with all the "Have you played this game more than (insert number)times?" comments?
 
# 129 shutdown10 @ 12/10/13 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan
There is a lot of STRONG hyperbole going on in this thread, especially in the last few pages LOL.

"Seeing stuff hasn't been seen in NBA games in the last 10 years"? Alright now, we can tone it down a bit there.

And what's up with all the "Have you played this game more than (insert number)times?" comments?

If NBA live 14 was that immerse, then it would not have a trade in value of 13 bucks at Gamestop. The game has not even been out a month yet and the price has been cut shy below 50 bucks if you trade it in. I know Gamestop are thieves, but I blame EA for that one. I don't understand where these how many times you played this game comments are coming from, because most people in this forum have played the game already. I'm not going to let EA off the hook with my experiences with this game.
 
# 130 RangersCruz @ 12/10/13 03:09 PM
Im waiting for that patch if the graphics are improved to be at least decent for next gen i will pick it up for sure
 
# 131 WTF @ 12/10/13 03:39 PM
I'll stand behind my "hyperbole" statement.
 
# 132 mythreesons @ 12/10/13 04:04 PM
The bottom line is that Live's graphics are horrendous. That along with terrible animations make it fail miserably as a basketball "Sim".

Designers would be better suited to remake/re-market it like the Golf game that's presently on the market (PowerStar Golf I believe). Get some cartoonish looking features and go for it. I seriously mean this, because the AI of the game is not half bad.

Its attempt at reproducing "REAL" basketball however, is a total fail. They have not captured even the most simplistic elements of basketball, i.e., the jumpshot and the layup... and just forget signature styles!

I can't get into it because the animations are so poor. On a scale of 1-10 the player likeness may be a 6 or 7, but the animations - seriously - are at the 3 or 4 level.

WTF, I see some of the things you spoke of, the game has promise, but for the reasons I mentioned above it's a LOOONNNG way from offering viable competition.
 
# 133 blackceasar @ 12/10/13 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF
Brian OS has no affiliation with OS. And Phreak50, may want to calm it down a bit. Lol.

Regardless of the outcome, right now, some of us have had our decisions made for us. 24th's daughter broke his 2k disc, and 2k glitches and errors broke my experience. Once you learn the game, it does get better.

I am taking the opportunity that I have, and hopefully going to provide some much needed community feedback to the EA team on what needs to be done.

I'm sure some are thinking "shouldn't they already know what needs fixed? "

In my mind, an outside opinion being constructive in their criticism will go much further than that of those who have slaved away on the project for the past 12 months. I kind of correlate it to mindlessly working on a project for hours. You've spent so much time on it, your mind is relatively numb and don't see it for what it is. Sometimes an outside look can make a world of difference.

Who knows.
I agree with you, then I don't agree with you. I think some of the backlash it's getting is coming from a 30,000 foot view. I mean the game as a whole.. and I mean as a whole based off of everything that's happened with the franchise over the past 3+ years. If you're saying EA sports TRULY needs regular people like us to point out how to fix their game, then EA sports has a much bigger problem on their hands. I mean, we aren't talking about "a Live 2015 wish list" we are talking about the public having to tell them how to make a good basketball game, and in my mind, that's unacceptable.

Also... you have to look at the bigger picture when it comes to all the actions EA sports initiated over the past 2-3 years leading up to this. Its not like they put a game out last year for current gen and then started on a regular cycle for this years game. It was the act of EA scrapping their latest effort two+ years ago and THEN coming up with the public rah rah speech about they are doing this to make a much BETTER basketball game. Do you see what I'm getting at here? They got on their soapbox, did the speech and the posturing and then had TWO YEARS to work on the game that's been getting 3's and 4's out of 10 for reviews. And don't give me any mumbo jumbo about dev cycles. I don't know how they work things internally there and neither do you.. HOWEVER, it was two years ago when they made a public statement... and that's all most of us need to hear... and that's why most of us refuse to cut them slack. Were we expecting the best basketball game ever? Not at all.. but for two years off and making that statement two years ago... this game just does not measure up, not even close when you factor all those other things in...

It's one thing to have a game you bought grow on you. It's another to play it enough to convince yourself the game is "now" worth the 60.00 you shelled out for it.
 
# 134 El_Poopador @ 12/10/13 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackceasar
I agree with you, then I don't agree with you. I think some of the backlash it's getting is coming from a 30,000 foot view. I mean the game as a whole.. and I mean as a whole based off of everything that's happened with the franchise over the past 3+ years. If you're saying EA sports TRULY needs regular people like us to point out how to fix their game, then EA sports has a much bigger problem on their hands. I mean, we aren't talking about "a Live 2015 wish list" we are talking about the public having to tell them how to make a good basketball game, and in my mind, that's unacceptable.

Also... you have to look at the bigger picture when it comes to all the actions EA sports initiated over the past 2-3 years leading up to this. Its not like they put a game out last year for current gen and then started on a regular cycle for this years game. It was the act of EA scrapping their latest effort two+ years ago and THEN coming up with the public rah rah speech about they are doing this to make a much BETTER basketball game. Do you see what I'm getting at here? They got on their soapbox, did the speech and the posturing and then had TWO YEARS to work on the game that's been getting 3's and 4's out of 10 for reviews. And don't give me any mumbo jumbo about dev cycles. I don't know how they work things internally there and neither do you.. HOWEVER, it was two years ago when they made a public statement... and that's all most of us need to hear... and that's why most of us refuse to cut them slack. Were we expecting the best basketball game ever? Not at all.. but for two years off and making that statement two years ago... this game just does not measure up, not even close when you factor all those other things in...

It's one thing to have a game you bought grow on you. It's another to play it enough to convince yourself the game is "now" worth the 60.00 you shelled out for it.
nba live 13 was officially canceled on 9/27/2012 so im not sure where youre getting the two years from. granted no one outside of ea knows for sure how long this team has had to work on this game but i find it hard to believe they were working on this with a new team while live 13 was still in development.
 
# 135 blackceasar @ 12/10/13 04:40 PM
I guess what all of this boils down to amongst the "basketball experts" The Live Fanboys, the 2k Fanboys, the people from EA signing up in secret on here to praise the game, and then the regular real OS members.... I have one question for you... do you feel EA Sports is legitmately warranted in asking for a full 59.99 for this year's title?

That's all want to know. Yes or no.

No "you just need to learn to play the game"... or "Iv'e seen this game do things I haven't seen in a basketball game in 10 years"... or EA Sucks 2k RULES!!!...

Do you think EA should charge people full price for this game.. I don't mean the "patched" version. I mean that game that people actually dropped their money on.. the game that's on the disk.. not the patches that are "in the works".. 60.00... yes or no.

It's a legitimate question seeing that not all games launch at full price... so I wanna know.
 
# 136 Flightwhite24 @ 12/10/13 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutdown10
I'm just glad that we have other review websites and other social media to let EA know that this is not going to cut it anymore. Lets just say I'm happy this is not the only place EA will get feedback from, because the game would never improve looking at the comments this past week. We cannot let them off the hook for this effort. My friend bought this game around Launch, and he got tired of it so he tried to trade it in yesterday, and was only offered 13 dollars from Gamestop. That lets you know this game has a very poor demand in the market. I suggest to all you guys who bought the game to hold on to your copies, because you will not even get 15 dollars credit for it if you try to trade it in now. EA needs to lower the price for this game because that is robbery on the trade in price.
You need to do your research before posting/giving advice. Check BestBuys trade in. $40. If you were talking about GameStop. Then you are correct. I always check BB



Sent from my iPhone
 
# 137 Flightwhite24 @ 12/10/13 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackceasar
I guess what all of this boils down to amongst the "basketball experts" The Live Fanboys, the 2k Fanboys, the people from EA signing up in secret on here to praise the game, and then the regular real OS members.... I have one question for you... do you feel EA Sports is legitmately warranted in asking for a full 59.99 for this year's title?

That's all want to know. Yes or no.

No "you just need to learn to play the game"... or "Iv'e seen this game do things I haven't seen in a basketball game in 10 years"... or EA Sucks 2k RULES!!!...

Do you think EA should charge people full price for this game.. I don't mean the "patched" version. I mean that game that people actually dropped their money on.. the game that's on the disk.. not the patches that are "in the works".. 60.00... yes or no.

It's a legitimate question seeing that not all games launch at full price... so I wanna know.
I think it's worth it for what i look for. And that's coming from a graphics whore in myself.

I'm huge on graphics!! But this game is just plain fun. I listen to others opinions/takes on games but at the end if the day it's what I choose to do. No reviewer/OS member/Mod no matter who it is or what there opinion of the a game can make me purchase/not purchase a game. I find it VERY EASY to respect others opinions. I don't always agree but I do respect and don't try to use underlying tactics to make my OS brothers or anyone for that matter look bad

If I don't like it then so be it. I'm not gonna come on here and ask for PROOF and try to mask it in the form of I'm interested when I know damn well I'm really just trying to make the person look silly.

But to answer your question again. For me I think it's worth $60.

Also blackceasar my rant wasn't directed to you. Peace man



Sent from my iPhone
 
# 138 WTF @ 12/10/13 05:16 PM
blackceasar, I can comment on two things. The demo that was released Day 1 without Synergy updates and without the 2 small patches, and the full retail version with those two things.

The day 1 demo, without Synergy, without the patches, no it's not near a $60 purchase.

The demo with Synergy updates, yes, I can say that it's worth a $60 purchase to me, which is why I picked it up.

Now, the game with the Updates and Bug Fixes, I can say that it's worth every bit of the $60, I wouldn't hesitate to get the game again if something were to happen with this disc.

But to say without Synergy, and without the updates that it's already received, that's not an entirely fair question, as even the PS4 needed an update to play a bluray disc based game. If you would have asked me if the PS4 was worth $399 without the Day 1 patch, then of course not, . We're in the day and age of patches. In its current state however, I will say that Live is easily worth my $60 for what it brings to the table.
 
# 139 Pared @ 12/10/13 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTWHITE
I think it's worth it for what i look for. And that's coming from a graphics whore in myself.

I'm huge on graphics!! But this game is just plain fun. I listen to others opinions/takes on games but at the end if the day it's what I choose to do. No reviewer/OS member/Mod no matter who it is or what there opinion of the a game can maker purchase/not purchase a game. I find it VERY EASY to respect others opinions. I don't always agree but I do respect and don't try to use underlying tactics to make my OS brothers or anyone for that matter look bad

If I don't like it then so be it. I'm not gonna come on here and ask for PROOF and try to mask it in the form of I'm interested when I know damn well I'm really just trying to make the person look silly.

But to answer your question again. For me I think it's worth $60.

Also blackceasar my rant wasn't directed to you. Peace man



Sent from my iPhone

Well, this obviously wasn't directed at ME.

Pretty sad. You would think for all the years here at OS, all of the different series we liked the best like Live, ID, 2K people would be more mature in this discussion.

Apparently not. Oh well - life goes on, and so do the games. There's much more to worry about than this. All I can say is that sales are dismal and there's a reason for it. When the game gets axed, only the developer will be to blame, not the people that "refused to buy it" or "just couldn't grasp just how deep it really is" or some other outlandish claim.
 
# 140 Flightwhite24 @ 12/10/13 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pared
Well, this obviously wasn't directed at ME.

Pretty sad. You would think for all the years here at OS, all of the different series we liked the best like Live, ID, 2K people would be more mature in this discussion.

Apparently not. Oh well - life goes on, and so do the games. There's much more to worry about than this. All I can say is that sales are dismal and there's a reason for it. When the game gets axed, only the developer will be to blame, not the people that "refused to buy it" or "just couldn't grasp just how deep it really is" or some other outlandish claim.

Now you know if I had an issue with you I would have pm'd you. Of course you Mods tick me off at times but I'd rather have you around keeping myself included in order. I have crossed the line a time or 2 and I'm not perfect.

If everyone agreed on everything this would be one boring forum.


Sent from my iPhone
 


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