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Staff Roundtable: How Are We Feeling About NCAA Football 12 Now?
Jayson Young: I'm amazed by how much better the retail version is compared to the demo. The gameplay in the demo felt so stale and boring that I stopped playing it after a few days, but the final build has me hooked to the point where I am staying up late just to play the darn thing.

There are still issues, such as the interactions between the offensive and defensive lines, the skating player movement and being unable to hit a ball-carrier while he's in the middle of an animation (not to mention this delicious bug), but unlike previous versions of NCAA, the game's shortcomings haven't killed the fun factor for me.

It's not going to reach the elite level of sports franchises until the commentary gets updated and the player movement, physics and animations become more lifelike, but it's still the first NCAA game this generation where the fun factor manages to overcome the game's flaws.


Jayson embraces NCAA Football 12, even if he does think it's flawed.

Bob Kollars: When the demo dropped, I could see so many minor improvements, and I knew these improvements would only be felt on a much greater level when the retail version found its way into my 360 tray. In my opinion, this is the best overall package EA has ever put out for a football game. A combination of slick graphics, stadium sounds, improved gameplay and a revamped Road To Glory mode have made this offering a much more in-depth experience. Gone are the days of suction blocking and tackling, and the new improvements to zone defense (while not perfect) are a huge step in the right direction. The one thing that I would love to have is a Spectator mode; I would love to have the ability to scout my next human opponent in an online dynasty in advance, and this mode would fill those needs. How cool would it be to watch the championship game live for your online dynasty -- that's a rhetorical question as we all know it would be mind-blowingly cool!

I am not claiming that NCAA 12 is a perfect game, just that it's the best offering to date in the form of college football. The CPU plays a smarter game on the field, and at times it even feels like you are actually playing another human opponent. If folks cannot find improvement and some enjoyment in this year's title, then the series is probably dead to them -- and said people should stop buying the product in the future. After devoting over a week's time, and well over 40 games, I'm more than content with my purchase.


Bob also has a strong desire to hold this year's title close to his bosom.

Caley Roark: I'm not the biggest college football fan, but I had seen enough press and information to preorder NCAA 12 pretty early. Then I played the demo. Largely, I wasn't impressed by it; it seemed to be just another EA football game, a formula that's becoming increasingly stale. Yes, it had better lighting and some ESPN overlays, but it still felt rather dull. I nearly cancelled my preorder.

But after a week and change, I am happy I didn't. The game plays much better than the demo, especially with the variety of new tackling animations. I love when a ball carrier is nearly knocked down, stumbles, then keeps going. It's refreshing to not know all of the tackling animations by heart, as has been the case with recent Madden titles.

I'm also interested in the coaching aspect of the Dynasty mode, and being a coordinator makes games a little quicker to squeeze in here and there. I suppose at some point I'll jump to a head coaching spot, but for now I'm happy controlling the offense. I've dabbled with Road to Glory, which is much improved from past versions I've played. I look forward to spending more time there. Overall, I'm pleasantly surprised. I wish the commentary and presentation elements were better (it's criminal that there isn't some kind of halftime recap), but I'm having a good time so far.


Caley likes the game, but he wants more than just team-specific entrances on the presentation front.

Dustin Toms: I'm not one who gets obsessed with My Player modes, but Road to Glory has made NCAA 12 one of the best purchases I have ever made for my gaming collection.

RtG has always been the best of the My Player modes in these football titles, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was anything super special. But with this year's improvements and position battles, I have fallen in love with my University of Washington QB (I chose a mid-level school for realistic purposes). Plus the fact that you can re-create your entire senior high school season is bringing back memories I thought I had forgotten.

But outside of RtG, NCAA 12 has impressed. With many led to believe that there was no way it could make a big enough jump from NCAA 11, the surprise of opening up a much better game is well deserved for us "unfortunate" gamers. The graphics are greatly improved and Dynasty mode has been touched up.

Like others have said, this game comes with its problems. The zone coverage is still a bit iffy, and there seems to be a strange freeze bug tied to customizing your own experience, but the game is not to the point where a patch or two can't tweak everything to where it needs to be.


Like the others, Dustin can overlook some problems because the core experience keeps bringing him back.

They were honestly a bit more positive than I expected. Nevertheless, continue to chat about all facets of the game, positive and negative. And bonus points go to the ones who are actually calm and articulate during their discussions.

NCAA Football 12 Videos
Member Comments
# 121 Hunkerdown @ 07/23/11 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illustrator76
I did not buy NCAA 12 on release day because I did not like the demo at all. It honestly felt like NCAA 11.25. After 3 days worth of coaxing from my friends (stating that the retail game was indeed a lot better than the demo), I decided to go ahead and buy the game (there is NOWHERE to rent games in my immediate area, and the new games aren't usually in anyway). After picking the game up, finding some sliders and playing a few games against the CPU, I must admit that I was kind of starting to like the game, it did feel more polished than the demo; Tackling IS improved from last year, run blocking seemed improved, and you could actually play zone defense this year. I am not the type of guy to buy a game and then be so happy to be playing football that I just "look past" certain issues so that I can proclaim the game as the greatest football game ever. I was kind of enjoying NCAA, and it felt like a step in the right direction. The game wasn't perfect, but I felt if a patch/tuners could fix the few things I was seeing at the time, that I could possibly enjoy NCAA 12 for an entire year. I then decided to scrimmage a few friends online, and everything went to H-E-double hockey sticks really quickly.

Playing on All-American (with no slider adjustments online) I threw 11 interceptions in 2 games, most of them because of the "super reacting" linebackers in zone coverage and the "legacy issue" of poor pass trajectory. It was ridiculous. On one play, my friend sold out on the blitz (sent like 7 or 8 guys) and dropped his secondary in to short zones. I had a guy WIDE open running and out route behind one of the zones, so I throw a bullet pass with a little loft on it, laughing in joy at my awesome "read", only to have the linebacker jump up and intercept a pass that was meant for a guy 7-10 yards behind him. This proceeded to happen to me many more times in two online games. Don't get me wrong, about 4 of my 11 INT's were just bad reads on my part and I can accept that, but the other 7 INT's were complete BS by the CPU.

From now on I refuse to play any NCAA 12 online games without a bottle of Mrs. Butterworth's next my controller, because I am constantly seeing nothing but pancakes. Even on All American, my ENTIRE Defensive Line is being completely pancaked on both running and passing plays. I don't care if you are playing with some 1,000 member D-III school, Defensive Linemen are not going to get mauled straight to the ground on EVERY play, it just doesn't happen. Along these same lines, 4-3 defensive ends are still worthless. Even in offline play, 4-3 Ends have zero ability to rush the Quarterback AT ALL. This pretty much makes recruiting and using 4-3 Defensive Ends totally useless, as their main job it to kill the QB first and stop the run 2nd. If you are running a 3-4, then they do their job perfectly well, in that they simply tie-up blockers and don't do much else. I ran numerous tests with Florida State's RE (95 overall, 95 Finesse Moves) against Troy's Left Tackle (can't remember overall, 75 Pass Block Footwork). Florida State's RE got NO pressure on the QB until I literally dropped the LT's Pass Block Footwork down to 0. That shouldn't have to happen. Period.

On top of these issues, there are still way too many unrealistic dropped balls by WR's online. I have no problems with drops if Receivers/TE's have a bad catch/CIT rating, but dropping balls on streak routes where the receivers are WIDE open, catch the ball, take 2 steps and then get tripped up are ridiculous. The old "last minute option pitch" when you are basically on the ground is still alive and well, as well as the option pitch where the opposing CB runs up and intercepts the ball. Others have touched on this as well, but DB's have eyes in the back of their heads and break/make plays on balls they have no business even being around. WR's and DB's alike still routinely go for the wrong type of catch animations in the wrong situations, and the DB's still swat the ball when they should intercept it, and vice versa. While run blocking is improved, I had a run with Denard Robinson where ALL my WR had to do was block the CB directly in front of him and I was home free, but instead the WR decided to leave the CB to tackle me, and run back to the LOS to block a guy who was completely out of the play. Needless to say, I didn't score on that play.

I have yet to see one of these new "diving catch" animations, and I have played well over 30+ online/offline games. The CPU AI quickly gets very boring, predictable and the play-calling can be downright atrocious and nonsensical at times. The game's overall sound is way too low and the "dynamic crowd noise" is sporadic and pretty much a complete joke. At the end of the day EA (yet again) has failed to fix numerous legacy issues (I mean, really, how long have we been complaining about ineffective DE's, super reacting LB's and incorrect pass trajectory?) and deliver a product not riddled with bugs and glaring issues. I understand that no game is perfect and that games will always ship with bugs and glitches, but when it gets to the point where finished games begin to feel incomplete or like Betas, then that is a huge issue. Sliders can somewhat correct (or better yet mask) some of the issues in this game offline (psychic coverage, suspect run blocking, D-Line pancakes), but it still doesn't make the games mechanics function correctly, and what about the online community? In my opinion, it would take a huge patch and a few tuners to get this game playing right online, and I just don't see that happening.

For the people that like the game and are enjoying it, good for you. I am glad that you have found a football game that you find fun. There is nothing wrong with that. I personally refuse to let numerous fundamental "football" issues with NCAA slide that other games licked and surpassed years ago. I am really getting tired of the people with legit gameplay complaints being labeled this or that, when the facts are glaringly clear. EA has failed year after year to listen to their community and fix legacy issues that are severely hampering their gameplay. Couple that with the introduction of what seem to be new legacy issues every year and people have the right to be upset and demand better. Period.

This game has potential, but I just do not see EA being willing to put the necessary work in to make NCAA 12 what it could be (if they were, they would have shipped it that way). I should have stuck with my first mind and stayed far away from NCAA 12.
Well played sir, well played.....
 
# 122 J-Unit40 @ 07/23/11 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDAlum
I have griped several times about the tendencies issue but I can say that I have honestly not seen any issues with CPU DBs being "psychic".
Agreed. Psychic? Not exactly. Brain dead at times? Certainly.

Wide receivers are in the same boat as well. Sometimes, it appears their awareness is less than zero.

I still can't believe how problematic this game is. The game freezes are the worst and everything else adds up to a lot of frustration.
 
# 123 Cj7298419 @ 07/23/11 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illustrator76
I did not buy NCAA 12 on release day because I did not like the demo at all. It honestly felt like NCAA 11.25. After 3 days worth of coaxing from my friends (stating that the retail game was indeed a lot better than the demo), I decided to go ahead and buy the game (there is NOWHERE to rent games in my immediate area, and the new games aren't usually in anyway). After picking the game up, finding some sliders and playing a few games against the CPU, I must admit that I was kind of starting to like the game, it did feel more polished than the demo; Tackling IS improved from last year, run blocking seemed improved, and you could actually play zone defense this year. I am not the type of guy to buy a game and then be so happy to be playing football that I just "look past" certain issues so that I can proclaim the game as the greatest football game ever. I was kind of enjoying NCAA, and it felt like a step in the right direction. The game wasn't perfect, but I felt if a patch/tuners could fix the few things I was seeing at the time, that I could possibly enjoy NCAA 12 for an entire year. I then decided to scrimmage a few friends online, and everything went to H-E-double hockey sticks really quickly.

Playing on All-American (with no slider adjustments online) I threw 11 interceptions in 2 games, most of them because of the "super reacting" linebackers in zone coverage and the "legacy issue" of poor pass trajectory. It was ridiculous. On one play, my friend sold out on the blitz (sent like 7 or 8 guys) and dropped his secondary in to short zones. I had a guy WIDE open running and out route behind one of the zones, so I throw a bullet pass with a little loft on it, laughing in joy at my awesome "read", only to have the linebacker jump up and intercept a pass that was meant for a guy 7-10 yards behind him. This proceeded to happen to me many more times in two online games. Don't get me wrong, about 4 of my 11 INT's were just bad reads on my part and I can accept that, but the other 7 INT's were complete BS by the CPU.

From now on I refuse to play any NCAA 12 online games without a bottle of Mrs. Butterworth's next my controller, because I am constantly seeing nothing but pancakes. Even on All American, my ENTIRE Defensive Line is being completely pancaked on both running and passing plays. I don't care if you are playing with some 1,000 member D-III school, Defensive Linemen are not going to get mauled straight to the ground on EVERY play, it just doesn't happen. Along these same lines, 4-3 defensive ends are still worthless. Even in offline play, 4-3 Ends have zero ability to rush the Quarterback AT ALL. This pretty much makes recruiting and using 4-3 Defensive Ends totally useless, as their main job it to kill the QB first and stop the run 2nd. If you are running a 3-4, then they do their job perfectly well, in that they simply tie-up blockers and don't do much else. I ran numerous tests with Florida State's RE (95 overall, 95 Finesse Moves) against Troy's Left Tackle (can't remember overall, 75 Pass Block Footwork). Florida State's RE got NO pressure on the QB until I literally dropped the LT's Pass Block Footwork down to 0. That shouldn't have to happen. Period.

On top of these issues, there are still way too many unrealistic dropped balls by WR's online. I have no problems with drops if Receivers/TE's have a bad catch/CIT rating, but dropping balls on streak routes where the receivers are WIDE open, catch the ball, take 2 steps and then get tripped up are ridiculous. The old "last minute option pitch" when you are basically on the ground is still alive and well, as well as the option pitch where the opposing CB runs up and intercepts the ball. Others have touched on this as well, but DB's have eyes in the back of their heads and break/make plays on balls they have no business even being around. WR's and DB's alike still routinely go for the wrong type of catch animations in the wrong situations, and the DB's still swat the ball when they should intercept it, and vice versa. While run blocking is improved, I had a run with Denard Robinson where ALL my WR had to do was block the CB directly in front of him and I was home free, but instead the WR decided to leave the CB to tackle me, and run back to the LOS to block a guy who was completely out of the play. Needless to say, I didn't score on that play.

I have yet to see one of these new "diving catch" animations, and I have played well over 30+ online/offline games. The CPU AI quickly gets very boring, predictable and the play-calling can be downright atrocious and nonsensical at times. The game's overall sound is way too low and the "dynamic crowd noise" is sporadic and pretty much a complete joke. At the end of the day EA (yet again) has failed to fix numerous legacy issues (I mean, really, how long have we been complaining about ineffective DE's, super reacting LB's and incorrect pass trajectory?) and deliver a product not riddled with bugs and glaring issues. I understand that no game is perfect and that games will always ship with bugs and glitches, but when it gets to the point where finished games begin to feel incomplete or like Betas, then that is a huge issue. Sliders can somewhat correct (or better yet mask) some of the issues in this game offline (psychic coverage, suspect run blocking, D-Line pancakes), but it still doesn't make the games mechanics function correctly, and what about the online community? In my opinion, it would take a huge patch and a few tuners to get this game playing right online, and I just don't see that happening.

For the people that like the game and are enjoying it, good for you. I am glad that you have found a football game that you find fun. There is nothing wrong with that. I personally refuse to let numerous fundamental "football" issues with NCAA slide that other games licked and surpassed years ago. I am really getting tired of the people with legit gameplay complaints being labeled this or that, when the facts are glaringly clear. EA has failed year after year to listen to their community and fix legacy issues that are severely hampering their gameplay. Couple that with the introduction of what seem to be new legacy issues every year and people have the right to be upset and demand better. Period.

This game has potential, but I just do not see EA being willing to put the necessary work in to make NCAA 12 what it could be (if they were, they would have shipped it that way). I should have stuck with my first mind and stayed far away from NCAA 12.
 
# 124 Spanky @ 07/23/11 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ODogg
fantastic game with major bugs, fix those and it could be legendary...
Wait a minute, how can it be a "fantastic game'' if it had major bugs? Doesn't having major bugs relegate this to anything but a "fantastic game?'' How in the world can you call this a "fantastic game?''

That's like saying you just had a "fantastic'' cheesesteak with spoiled meat.
 
# 125 Elgin2311 @ 07/23/11 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SECElite3
WTH??? What do you even say to this? Speechless...
You have a problem with something I said?
 
# 126 Illustrator76 @ 07/23/11 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM
My RE leads the NCAA in sacks. I dont user control him. The issue is sliders, half of you guys put the game in and start jacking around the sliders without playing a few games to see whats up. Sliders don't work universally for every team, sliders also depend on the players rating at their position. If you have a run stuffing end, jacking up the sliders isnt going to make him get more sacks
Are you running a 4-3 or a 3-4? 3-4 Ends can get sacks in this game because of the messed up blocking logic. The CPU will block the blitzing LB's and literally let the DE's run free. I use a 4-3 with a 95 overall pass rushing Defensive End that couldn't get an ounce of pressure (forget sacks) on Varsity with my pass rush on 100 and the CPU pass block on 0. The 4-3 defensive ends are broken, have been for years and sliders are not the problem.

dkrause1971 is 100% correct, as it was like that in Madden 11 as well.
 
# 127 ChampIsHere42 @ 07/23/11 12:23 PM
I was very disappointed with the roster glitch and haven't played the game in a few days. I just deleted the rosters today and went back to default and all I can say is the game completely changed for me. It was A LOT more realistic and I didn't notice the LBs jumping 20 feet in the air for a deflection. I was very impressed.
 
# 128 SGMRock @ 07/23/11 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illustrator76
Along these same lines, 4-3 defensive ends are still worthless. Even in offline play, 4-3 Ends have zero ability to rush the Quarterback AT ALL. This pretty much makes recruiting and using 4-3 Defensive Ends totally useless, as their main job is to kill the QB first and stop the run 2nd. If you are running a 3-4, then they do their job perfectly well, in that they simply tie-up blockers and don't do much else. I ran numerous tests with Florida State's RE (95 overall, 95 Finesse Moves) against Troy's Left Tackle (can't remember overall, 75 Pass Block Footwork). Florida State's RE got NO pressure on the QB until I literally dropped the LT's Pass Block Footwork down to 0. That shouldn't have to happen. Period.

WR's and DB's alike still routinely go for the wrong type of catch animations in the wrong situations, and the DB's still swat the ball when they should intercept it, and vice versa.

At the end of the day EA (yet again) has failed to fix numerous legacy issues (I mean, really, how long have we been complaining about ineffective DE's, super reacting LB's and incorrect pass trajectory?) and deliver a product not riddled with bugs and glaring issues. I understand that no game is perfect and that games will always ship with bugs and glitches, but when it gets to the point where finished games begin to feel incomplete or like Betas, then that is a huge issue. Sliders can somewhat correct (or better yet mask) some of the issues in this game offline (psychic coverage, suspect run blocking, D-Line pancakes), but it still doesn't make the games mechanics function correctly, and what about the online community? In my opinion, it would take a huge patch and a few tuners to get this game playing right online, and I just don't see that happening.
I am really getting tired of the people with legit gameplay complaints being labeled this or that, when the facts are glaringly clear. EA has failed year after year to listen to their community and fix legacy issues that are severely hampering their gameplay. Couple that with the introduction of what seem to be new legacy issues every year and people have the right to be upset and demand better. Period.
On these points above yes I agree with you on the DE's, they say they removed suction blocking but now its more like magnet blocking. You will think you are in the clear and next thing you know your player will turn sideways and be pulled into a OL or HB like you are a piece of steel and they are a high powered magnet. I will say on default AA settings if you lower the threshold though you will find that DE's have a lot more success. I have been playing with 30 threshold and slow game speed mostly default AA settings ( I lower interceptions for both sides because they are out of control) and I was able to break the NCAA record for sacks with my LE paying a base 4-3 defense. With Threshold at 50 not possible at all.

The WR/DB are also really affected by the Threshold setting. DBs will stick to your guys like glue if you have Normal Speed and 50 or higher threshold. Also many time they will might be 2 steps behind and you think you have a window but when you pass they magically get way faster and will run from behind and swat the ball or intercept it. I could see this if you threw the pass behind your WR but when you lead your WR so they are runing into the catch no way a DB should be able to put on the rocket shoes and pass your WR to bat or int the ball. Again though if you lower threshold this will stop happening. On the last point about the DBs with backs to the ball and super jumping LBs, I have not found a way to fix that with sliders its just broken. I don't think the LB's are jumping super high so much as its the way the ball travels like you said, the trajectory is off. They have not been able to find a way to arch the ball correctly on passes in my opinion. If you lob pass to arch it more it travels way to slow even on short passes. But if you watch a lot of football or have throw footballs a lot yourself you can see if you throw a pass 20 yds and the LB is at the 10 yd point in between the ball is at its highest point and should not be reachable by a 6' LB who might at best have a 12" vertical leap, not to mention sometimes they jump 5ft sideways and up at the same time to tip them. At best a DB that is running behind a WR with his back to the QB would possibly be able to see the WR turning or putting his hands up to catch a ball and then they would react by turning as well or tossing up an arm to try and deflect a pass they think is coming. Thats not what happens in this game though. They magically know the ball is coming from behind them they jump in the air back to the ball and extend out fully and intercept it. Eyes in the back of their heads I guess. Also if they are behind and you toss it over the WR should they will put the rockets on the shoes again and pass your WR and jump up and Int unless you have threshold down. Also lets not mention how many times I have had a DB literally go through a part of my WR's body to intercept a ball, one time today an elbow went right through the head of my WR and would have been pass interference but I guess my WR was a ghost because the elbow went right through the middle of the head without any problem at all.

On your last point I quoted above I believe they depend to much on sliders to fix everything and never really fix the fundamentals of the gameplay. If the players had good fundamentals then sliders would only adjust skill level really. If they had a proper physics engine then you would not see LBs moving right and then suddenly going left and leeping in the air because their right momentem would not allow them to change directions instantly like that. I could go on and on with some of this stuff but I think it comes down to time. Not enough time to toss out a game engine and rebuild it so they settle for tweaking as much as they can with the current one year after year. Also maybe hardware has something to do with the game engine. Games with true physics engines like many of the newer FPS games out there require some good hardware which neither the PS3 or Xbox have anymore, they are 6+ years old now. Having full physics on 22 moving bodies on the field as well as the ball has got to be a CPU/GPU sucking task. Maybe on the next gen console they will do it since they refuse to make these games on PC now, a modern PC would make a kick a** platform for a full physics engine football game.
 
# 129 jkra0512 @ 07/23/11 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky
Wait a minute, how can it be a "fantastic game'' if it had major bugs? Doesn't having major bugs relegate this to anything but a "fantastic game?'' How in the world can you call this a "fantastic game?''

That's like saying you just had a "fantastic'' cheesesteak with spoiled meat.
You from Philly? lol That analogy made me really laugh out loud, nicely put.

I think many people around here have put on the their EA-sponsored rose-colored glasses. "If it's in the game, we'll talk about and fail at putting it in the game"

Talk about customer loyalty, year after year we are misled into overhyped and broken gameplay "improvements" and new features that simply are poorly implemented.

I just feel bad for the roster makers who spent hours of their lives (for no financial gain) to name a broken roster will now all be for naught because of multiple oversights by paid EA employees. Our community here does such a great job of giving us workarounds to fix EA's faulty AI. It's sad that the community can see these problems within a few weeks of playing this glitch and bug fest, but EA just doesn't care to put time into testing. That tells me that (1) they don't have the resources or (2) they are just lazy and don't care.

EA learn from SCEA and their attention to detail and their customer service.
 
# 130 Quint75 @ 07/23/11 01:33 PM
As an offline-only Dynasty player, I am seriously disappointed with the myriad Dynasty problems, especially the coaching carousel. That was the new feature I was most excited about, but it's not worth messing with at the moment and I am unsure how high a priority this will be in any upcoming patch. Couple that with the recruits changing tendencies and the conference realignment not working as stated and it's really discouraging. And of course any meaningful patch will be weeks, if not more, in the making.

I am pretty darned happy with the way the game plays (with unnamed rosters) but I don't play exhibition games. I am a Dynasty player so if that mode has problems then I am not happy.
 
# 131 ucas005 @ 07/23/11 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illustrator76
4-3 defensive ends are still worthless. Even in offline play, 4-3 Ends have zero ability to rush the Quarterback AT ALL. This pretty much makes recruiting and using 4-3 Defensive Ends totally useless, as their main job is to kill the QB first and stop the run 2nd. If you are running a 3-4, then they do their job perfectly well, in that they simply tie-up blockers and don't do much else. I ran numerous tests with Florida State's RE (95 overall, 95 Finesse Moves) against Troy's Left Tackle (can't remember overall, 75 Pass Block Footwork). Florida State's RE got NO pressure on the QB until I literally dropped the LT's Pass Block Footwork down to 0. That shouldn't have to happen. Period.
This is probably my biggest issue with the game right now and with everything great this game has to offer I just can't get over this issue. Because of this issue it's slowly making the game unplayable for me. I don't know how many different slider settings/player rating adjustments I've tried I still get the same "magnet" animation pass rush result from the DEs. It truly does make recruiting a 4-3 DE absolutely pointless as they generate absolutely zero pass rush. Which for me is unfortunate because I like running a 4-3 and I'm a defense first type of player.

This thread shows the issue in practice mode. I've done all my testing on this issue in Play Now with the same results.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...id-inside.html


If not fixed with a patch (same type of issue had to be fixed last year) I'm probably done with the game.
 
# 132 Rocky @ 07/23/11 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illustrator76
I did not buy NCAA 12 on release day because I did not like the demo at all. It honestly felt like NCAA 11.25. After 3 days worth of coaxing from my friends (stating that the retail game was indeed a lot better than the demo), I decided to go ahead and buy the game (there is NOWHERE to rent games in my immediate area, and the new games aren't usually in anyway). After picking the game up, finding some sliders and playing a few games against the CPU, I must admit that I was kind of starting to like the game, it did feel more polished than the demo; Tackling IS improved from last year, run blocking seemed improved, and you could actually play zone defense this year. I am not the type of guy to buy a game and then be so happy to be playing football that I just "look past" certain issues so that I can proclaim the game as the greatest football game ever. I was kind of enjoying NCAA, and it felt like a step in the right direction. The game wasn't perfect, but I felt if a patch/tuners could fix the few things I was seeing at the time, that I could possibly enjoy NCAA 12 for an entire year. I then decided to scrimmage a few friends online, and everything went to H-E-double hockey sticks really quickly.

Playing on All-American (with no slider adjustments online) I threw 11 interceptions in 2 games, most of them because of the "super reacting" linebackers in zone coverage and the "legacy issue" of poor pass trajectory. It was ridiculous. On one play, my friend sold out on the blitz (sent like 7 or 8 guys) and dropped his secondary in to short zones. I had a guy WIDE open running and out route behind one of the zones, so I throw a bullet pass with a little loft on it (laughing in joy at my awesome "read"), only to have the linebacker jump up and intercept a pass that was meant for a guy 7-10 yards behind him. This proceeded to happen to me many more times in two online games. Don't get me wrong, about 4 of my 11 INT's were just bad reads on my part and I can accept that, but the other 7 INT's were complete BS by the CPU.

From now on I refuse to play any NCAA 12 online games without a bottle of Mrs. Butterworth's next my controller, because I am constantly seeing nothing but pancakes. Even on All American, my ENTIRE Defensive Line is being completely pancaked on both running and passing plays. I don't care if you are playing with some 1,000 member D-III school, Defensive Linemen are not going to get mauled straight to the ground on EVERY play, it just doesn't happen. Along these same lines, 4-3 defensive ends are still worthless. Even in offline play, 4-3 Ends have zero ability to rush the Quarterback AT ALL. This pretty much makes recruiting and using 4-3 Defensive Ends totally useless, as their main job is to kill the QB first and stop the run 2nd. If you are running a 3-4, then they do their job perfectly well, in that they simply tie-up blockers and don't do much else. I ran numerous tests with Florida State's RE (95 overall, 95 Finesse Moves) against Troy's Left Tackle (can't remember overall, 75 Pass Block Footwork). Florida State's RE got NO pressure on the QB until I literally dropped the LT's Pass Block Footwork down to 0. That shouldn't have to happen. Period.

On top of these issues, there are still way too many unrealistic dropped balls by WR's online. I have no problems with drops if Receivers/TE's have a bad catch/CIT rating, but dropping balls on streak routes where the receivers are WIDE open, catch the ball, take 2 steps and then get tripped up are ridiculous. The old "last minute option pitch" when you are basically on the ground is still alive and well, as well as the option pitch where the opposing CB runs up and intercepts the ball. Others have touched on this as well, but DB's have eyes in the back of their heads and break/make plays on balls they have no business even being around. WR's and DB's alike still routinely go for the wrong type of catch animations in the wrong situations, and the DB's still swat the ball when they should intercept it, and vice versa. While run blocking is improved, I had a run with Denard Robinson where ALL my WR had to do was block the CB directly in front of him and I was home free, but instead the WR decided to leave the CB to tackle me, and run back to the LOS to block a guy who was completely out of the play. Needless to say, I didn't score on that play.

I have yet to see one of these new "diving catch" animations, and I have played well over 30+ online/offline games. The CPU AI quickly gets very boring, predictable and the play-calling can be downright atrocious and nonsensical at times. The game's overall sound is way too low and the "dynamic crowd noise" is sporadic and pretty much a complete joke. At the end of the day EA (yet again) has failed to fix numerous legacy issues (I mean, really, how long have we been complaining about ineffective DE's, super reacting LB's and incorrect pass trajectory?) and deliver a product not riddled with bugs and glaring issues. I understand that no game is perfect and that games will always ship with bugs and glitches, but when it gets to the point where finished games begin to feel incomplete or like Betas, then that is a huge issue. Sliders can somewhat correct (or better yet mask) some of the issues in this game offline (psychic coverage, suspect run blocking, D-Line pancakes), but it still doesn't make the games mechanics function correctly, and what about the online community? In my opinion, it would take a huge patch and a few tuners to get this game playing right online, and I just don't see that happening.

For the people that like the game and are enjoying it, good for you. I am glad that you have found a football game that you find fun. There is nothing wrong with that. I personally refuse to let numerous fundamental "football" issues with NCAA slide that other games licked and surpassed years ago. I am really getting tired of the people with legit gameplay complaints being labeled this or that, when the facts are glaringly clear. EA has failed year after year to listen to their community and fix legacy issues that are severely hampering their gameplay. Couple that with the introduction of what seem to be new legacy issues every year and people have the right to be upset and demand better. Period.

This game has potential, but I just do not see EA being willing to put the necessary work in to make NCAA 12 what it could be (if they were, they would have shipped it that way). I should have stuck with my first mind and stayed far away from NCAA 12.
HELL of a post illustrator. It's amazing how many reviewers gloss over aspects of this game that are just so fundamentally flawed.

The physics and AI of this game are showing there age so much, it's unbelievable.

There NEEDS to be laws of physics and human awareness applied to EA football titles. I think Madden's AI is a little tighter than NCAA but there is still no sense of physical limitations or capabilities. The players in NCAA don't feel lifelike. Simple physics will tell you that most humans weighing 240 takes longer to jump and can't jump as high an equal athlete weighing 190. Ratings are too heavily involved and simple weight and physics aren't used enough. There are exceptions and ratings should come into play then but I don't feel like simple human awareness and physics are involved enough. The running game's AI is great, but I still don't get that 'push' from the OL you should.....and it makes 4-2-5, 3-2-6, and 3-3-5 too effective against the running game. Passing is a mess altogether from the QB footwork (EA needs to get this right) to the trajectory of balls and how they correspond with WR routes.
 
# 133 LucianoJJ @ 07/23/11 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGMRock
On these points above yes I agree with you on the DE's, they say they removed suction blocking but now its more like magnet blocking. You will think you are in the clear and next thing you know your player will turn sideways and be pulled into a OL or HB like you are a piece of steel and they are a high powered magnet. I will say on default AA settings if you lower the threshold though you will find that DE's have a lot more success. I have been playing with 30 threshold and slow game speed mostly default AA settings ( I lower interceptions for both sides because they are out of control) and I was able to break the NCAA record for sacks with my LE paying a base 4-3 defense. With Threshold at 50 not possible at all.

The WR/DB are also really affected by the Threshold setting. DBs will stick to your guys like glue if you have Normal Speed and 50 or higher threshold. Also many time they will might be 2 steps behind and you think you have a window but when you pass they magically get way faster and will run from behind and swat the ball or intercept it. I could see this if you threw the pass behind your WR but when you lead your WR so they are runing into the catch no way a DB should be able to put on the rocket shoes and pass your WR to bat or int the ball. Again though if you lower threshold this will stop happening. On the last point about the DBs with backs to the ball and super jumping LBs, I have not found a way to fix that with sliders its just broken. I don't think the LB's are jumping super high so much as its the way the ball travels like you said, the trajectory is off. They have not been able to find a way to arch the ball correctly on passes in my opinion. If you lob pass to arch it more it travels way to slow even on short passes. But if you watch a lot of football or have throw footballs a lot yourself you can see if you throw a pass 20 yds and the LB is at the 10 yd point in between the ball is at its highest point and should not be reachable by a 6' LB who might at best have a 12" vertical leap, not to mention sometimes they jump 5ft sideways and up at the same time to tip them. At best a DB that is running behind a WR with his back to the QB would possibly be able to see the WR turning or putting his hands up to catch a ball and then they would react by turning as well or tossing up an arm to try and deflect a pass they think is coming. Thats not what happens in this game though. They magically know the ball is coming from behind them they jump in the air back to the ball and extend out fully and intercept it. Eyes in the back of their heads I guess. Also if they are behind and you toss it over the WR should they will put the rockets on the shoes again and pass your WR and jump up and Int unless you have threshold down. Also lets not mention how many times I have had a DB literally go through a part of my WR's body to intercept a ball, one time today an elbow went right through the head of my WR and would have been pass interference but I guess my WR was a ghost because the elbow went right through the middle of the head without any problem at all.

On your last point I quoted above I believe they depend to much on sliders to fix everything and never really fix the fundamentals of the gameplay. If the players had good fundamentals then sliders would only adjust skill level really. If they had a proper physics engine then you would not see LBs moving right and then suddenly going left and leeping in the air because their right momentem would not allow them to change directions instantly like that. I could go on and on with some of this stuff but I think it comes down to time. Not enough time to toss out a game engine and rebuild it so they settle for tweaking as much as they can with the current one year after year. Also maybe hardware has something to do with the game engine. Games with true physics engines like many of the newer FPS games out there require some good hardware which neither the PS3 or Xbox have anymore, they are 6+ years old now. Having full physics on 22 moving bodies on the field as well as the ball has got to be a CPU/GPU sucking task. Maybe on the next gen console they will do it since they refuse to make these games on PC now, a modern PC would make a kick a** platform for a full physics engine football game.
As some have said earlier, the engine is dated. The hardware is dated. Tiburon spread themselves so thin, with so many elements to the game, that the actual gameplay is inconsistent. Are they waiting for a new console launch to start to rebuild? Is the 360 so maxed out that the PS3 version is held back? Should they just sell key discs and let us download a deeper console version? Should there be a deluxe PC version to take advantage of better hardware?

I liked the Malcolm X clip in the previous post. We have been "hoodwinked." Next Gen gaming has not lived up to the hype. I'm still going to play, and tweak the ratings and sliders to make the games more fun. It's only a game....
 
# 134 SGMRock @ 07/23/11 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucianoJJ
Should there be a deluxe PC version to take advantage of better hardware?
Another Studio DICE that has been owned by EA for years does things the right way in this respect. The develope the games with the PC as the main platform and then scale it down to work on the consoles. Battlefield Bad Company 2 was super sweet on PC with DX11 graphics and their Frostbite PC driven physics engine that doesn't require something like NVidia's Physx hardware as it would built by them to run on multicore CPU's. Frostbite 2 used in BF3 is going to be even nicer. Again that game was developed with PC as the primary platform.

PS3 are a year newer than 360's but I don't believe they that much more powerful for what we need today to make a proper game you need to use a multicore PC platform, W7 and 4GB ram on a 64bit OS with a DX11. Then you would see some sweet football games.

If studios took the DICE approach and developed for PC first they would get some great PC games and still have good console games. Just my opinion of course.
 
# 135 squadron supreme @ 07/23/11 03:23 PM
I don't think current console hardware is dated its just the Madden/NCAA engine. Its inexcusable for Fifa and NHL 12 this year to have real time physics and not EA's football titles. That shows either lack of development resources or just plain laziness.
 
# 136 SGMRock @ 07/23/11 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOPARADIGM
And there is just one example of why it's impossible to take anything anyone says around here seriously.
Well not everyone plays the same or has the same skill level. But some of these things can be fixed by sliders. The leaping LB's I am not sure how to fix those with sliders though
 
# 137 Gotmadskillzson @ 07/23/11 03:55 PM
I will volunteer to be an EA NCAA producer. I have no problems moving back to Florida. I worked on indie games before for Xbox Live arcade, helped program the popular Second Life game for the PC.

They can give me the title of CPU Game Play AI Producer.
 
# 138 tebowfanai @ 07/23/11 03:57 PM
The leaping linebackers have really got on my nerves but other than that I love this game.
 
# 139 Playmakers @ 07/23/11 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGMRock
Well not everyone plays the same or has the same skill level. But some of these things can be fixed by sliders. The leaping LB's I am not sure how to fix those with sliders though
I've showed video's and explained how to fix leaping LB's

The problem is most people don't particulary care about doing it.....they will rely on EA to do it and much like every year EA never does it for them so this complaint is constant all year.

There is no slider in this game that can stop leaping LB's not one single slider is a releated to a players vertical jump ratings

This is not NBA 2K11 where you have a global slider for gameplay to lower verticals

I'm not speaking of you but the leaping LB's out cry's really get old especially when you have like 2-3 guys on these boards who have explained how to fix the issue. It's not the best way to go about it because it takes time but hey if people truly wanted to fix it and not see it then they would take action on their own otherwise they will be on here all year complaining the problem
 
# 140 jkra0512 @ 07/23/11 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmakers
I've showed video's and explained how to fix leaping LB's

The problem is most people don't particulary care about doing it.....they will rely on EA to do it and much like every year EA never does it for them so this complaint is constant all year.

There is no slider in this game that can stop leaping LB's not one single slider is a releated to a players vertical jump ratings

This is not NBA 2K11 where you have a global slider for gameplay to lower verticals

I'm not speaking of you but the leaping LB's out cry's really get old especially when you have like 2-3 guys on these boards who have explained how to fix the issue. It's not the best way to go about it because it takes time but hey if people truly wanted to fix it and not see it then they would take action on their own otherwise they will be on here all year complaining the problem
PM, even though there is a workaround for it, doesn't mean those upset about it can't complain. It's not our "job" to make sure these issues aren't...well...issues.

It's ridiculous that people have been complaining about this for a few years now and EA continues to turn the other cheek...
 


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