Staff Roundtable: How Are We Feeling About NCAA Football 12 Now?

[SGMRock]

Quote: Originally Posted by Illustrator76

Along these same lines, 4-3 defensive ends are still worthless. Even in offline play, 4-3 Ends have zero ability to rush the Quarterback AT ALL. This pretty much makes recruiting and using 4-3 Defensive Ends totally useless, as their main job is to kill the QB first and stop the run 2nd. If you are running a 3-4, then they do their job perfectly well, in that they simply tie-up blockers and don't do much else. I ran numerous tests with Florida State's RE (95 overall, 95 Finesse Moves) against Troy's Left Tackle (can't remember overall, 75 Pass Block Footwork). Florida State's RE got NO pressure on the QB until I literally dropped the LT's Pass Block Footwork down to 0. That shouldn't have to happen. Period. WR's and DB's alike still routinely go for the wrong type of catch animations in the wrong situations, and the DB's still swat the ball when they should intercept it, and vice versa. At the end of the day EA (yet again) has failed to fix numerous legacy issues (I mean, really, how long have we been complaining about ineffective DE's, super reacting LB's and incorrect pass trajectory?) and deliver a product not riddled with bugs and glaring issues. I understand that no game is perfect and that games will always ship with bugs and glitches, but when it gets to the point where finished games begin to feel incomplete or like Betas, then that is a huge issue. Sliders can somewhat correct (or better yet mask) some of the issues in this game offline (psychic coverage, suspect run blocking, D-Line pancakes), but it still doesn't make the games mechanics function correctly, and what about the online community? In my opinion, it would take a huge patch and a few tuners to get this game playing right online, and I just don't see that happening. I am really getting tired of the people with legit gameplay complaints being labeled this or that, when the facts are glaringly clear. EA has failed year after year to listen to their community and fix legacy issues that are severely hampering their gameplay. Couple that with the introduction of what seem to be new legacy issues every year and people have the right to be upset and demand better. Period.

On these points above yes I agree with you on the DE's, they say they removed suction blocking but now its more like magnet blocking. You will think you are in the clear and next thing you know your player will turn sideways and be pulled into a OL or HB like you are a piece of steel and they are a high powered magnet. I will say on default AA settings if you lower the threshold though you will find that DE's have a lot more success. I have been playing with 30 threshold and slow game speed mostly default AA settings ( I lower interceptions for both sides because they are out of control) and I was able to break the NCAA record for sacks with my LE paying a base 4-3 defense. With Threshold at 50 not possible at all.

The WR/DB are also really affected by the Threshold setting. DBs will stick to your guys like glue if you have Normal Speed and 50 or higher threshold. Also many time they will might be 2 steps behind and you think you have a window but when you pass they magically get way faster and will run from behind and swat the ball or intercept it. I could see this if you threw the pass behind your WR but when you lead your WR so they are runing into the catch no way a DB should be able to put on the rocket shoes and pass your WR to bat or int the ball. Again though if you lower threshold this will stop happening. On the last point about the DBs with backs to the ball and super jumping LBs, I have not found a way to fix that with sliders its just broken. I don't think the LB's are jumping super high so much as its the way the ball travels like you said, the trajectory is off. They have not been able to find a way to arch the ball correctly on passes in my opinion. If you lob pass to arch it more it travels way to slow even on short passes. But if you watch a lot of football or have throw footballs a lot yourself you can see if you throw a pass 20 yds and the LB is at the 10 yd point in between the ball is at its highest point and should not be reachable by a 6' LB who might at best have a 12" vertical leap, not to mention sometimes they jump 5ft sideways and up at the same time to tip them. At best a DB that is running behind a WR with his back to the QB would possibly be able to see the WR turning or putting his hands up to catch a ball and then they would react by turning as well or tossing up an arm to try and deflect a pass they think is coming. Thats not what happens in this game though. They magically know the ball is coming from behind them they jump in the air back to the ball and extend out fully and intercept it. Eyes in the back of their heads I guess. Also if they are behind and you toss it over the WR should they will put the rockets on the shoes again and pass your WR and jump up and Int unless you have threshold down. Also lets not mention how many times I have had a DB literally go through a part of my WR's body to intercept a ball, one time today an elbow went right through the head of my WR and would have been pass interference but I guess my WR was a ghost because the elbow went right through the middle of the head without any problem at all.

On your last point I quoted above I believe they depend to much on sliders to fix everything and never really fix the fundamentals of the gameplay. If the players had good fundamentals then sliders would only adjust skill level really. If they had a proper physics engine then you would not see LBs moving right and then suddenly going left and leeping in the air because their right momentem would not allow them to change directions instantly like that. I could go on and on with some of this stuff but I think it comes down to time. Not enough time to toss out a game engine and rebuild it so they settle for tweaking as much as they can with the current one year after year. Also maybe hardware has something to do with the game engine. Games with true physics engines like many of the newer FPS games out there require some good hardware which neither the PS3 or Xbox have anymore, they are 6+ years old now. Having full physics on 22 moving bodies on the field as well as the ball has got to be a CPU/GPU sucking task. Maybe on the next gen console they will do it since they refuse to make these games on PC now, a modern PC would make a kick a** platform for a full physics engine football game.

[JerseySuave4]

Quote: Originally Posted by JaySmooov

It may be off topic but, I just can't understand why Marcus Lattimore (96) had a higher speed rating than Denard Robinson (95). Lattimore lowest noted 40 time was a 4.46. Robinson reportedly has run under 4.4 multiple times. You could say, well Robinson get's started much faster. True, but Lattimore has a 92 ACC. I mean, if his ACC was about 86-88, maybe that's ok. Just one of the MANY overrates in game. I just don't understand how every starter on Alabama's defense has a hit power above 90, or how 20 players, including EVERY WR and RB, on Florida's roster has a speed 90 or higher.

you mean HB #21 for South Carolina is faster than QB #16 for Michigan

Quote: Originally Posted by Retropyro

Have to agree with the two of you. The whining and compaining on the forums is crazy.

well then i'd say there are a lot of unhappy customers out there. And don't act like its just these forums, i really don't go to other forums to post but i have seen just as many unhappy people on other forums.

When you put out a product with as many problems as this game has, people are going to be unhappy and these forums are a place to voice their opinion. Not everything is always sunshine & gumdrops.

[jkra0512]

Quote: Originally Posted by Spanky

Wait a minute, how can it be a "fantastic game'' if it had major bugs? Doesn't having major bugs relegate this to anything but a "fantastic game?'' How in the world can you call this a "fantastic game?'' That's like saying you just had a "fantastic'' cheesesteak with spoiled meat.

You from Philly? lol That analogy made me really laugh out loud, nicely put.

I think many people around here have put on the their EA-sponsored rose-colored glasses. "If it's in the game, we'll talk about and fail at putting it in the game"

Talk about customer loyalty, year after year we are misled into overhyped and broken gameplay "improvements" and new features that simply are poorly implemented.

I just feel bad for the roster makers who spent hours of their lives (for no financial gain) to name a broken roster will now all be for naught because of multiple oversights by paid EA employees. Our community here does such a great job of giving us workarounds to fix EA's faulty AI. It's sad that the community can see these problems within a few weeks of playing this glitch and bug fest, but EA just doesn't care to put time into testing. That tells me that (1) they don't have the resources or (2) they are just lazy and don't care.

EA learn from SCEA and their attention to detail and their customer service.

[Quint75]

As an offline-only Dynasty player, I am seriously disappointed with the myriad Dynasty problems, especially the coaching carousel. That was the new feature I was most excited about, but it's not worth messing with at the moment and I am unsure how high a priority this will be in any upcoming patch. Couple that with the recruits changing tendencies and the conference realignment not working as stated and it's really discouraging. And of course any meaningful patch will be weeks, if not more, in the making.

I am pretty darned happy with the way the game plays (with unnamed rosters) but I don't play exhibition games. I am a Dynasty player so if that mode has problems then I am not happy.

[ucas005]

Quote: Originally Posted by Illustrator76

4-3 defensive ends are still worthless. Even in offline play, 4-3 Ends have zero ability to rush the Quarterback AT ALL. This pretty much makes recruiting and using 4-3 Defensive Ends totally useless, as their main job is to kill the QB first and stop the run 2nd. If you are running a 3-4, then they do their job perfectly well, in that they simply tie-up blockers and don't do much else. I ran numerous tests with Florida State's RE (95 overall, 95 Finesse Moves) against Troy's Left Tackle (can't remember overall, 75 Pass Block Footwork). Florida State's RE got NO pressure on the QB until I literally dropped the LT's Pass Block Footwork down to 0. That shouldn't have to happen. Period.

This is probably my biggest issue with the game right now and with everything great this game has to offer I just can't get over this issue. Because of this issue it's slowly making the game unplayable for me. I don't know how many different slider settings/player rating adjustments I've tried I still get the same "magnet" animation pass rush result from the DEs. It truly does make recruiting a 4-3 DE absolutely pointless as they generate absolutely zero pass rush. Which for me is unfortunate because I like running a 4-3 and I'm a defense first type of player.

This thread shows the issue in practice mode. I've done all my testing on this issue in Play Now with the same results.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...id-inside.html


If not fixed with a patch (same type of issue had to be fixed last year) I'm probably done with the game.

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by Illustrator76

I did not buy NCAA 12 on release day because I did not like the demo at all. It honestly felt like NCAA 11.25. After 3 days worth of coaxing from my friends (stating that the retail game was indeed a lot better than the demo), I decided to go ahead and buy the game (there is NOWHERE to rent games in my immediate area, and the new games aren't usually in anyway). After picking the game up, finding some sliders and playing a few games against the CPU, I must admit that I was kind of starting to like the game, it did feel more polished than the demo; Tackling IS improved from last year, run blocking seemed improved, and you could actually play zone defense this year. I am not the type of guy to buy a game and then be so happy to be playing football that I just "look past" certain issues so that I can proclaim the game as the greatest football game ever. I was kind of enjoying NCAA, and it felt like a step in the right direction. The game wasn't perfect, but I felt if a patch/tuners could fix the few things I was seeing at the time, that I could possibly enjoy NCAA 12 for an entire year. I then decided to scrimmage a few friends online, and everything went to H-E-double hockey sticks really quickly. Playing on All-American (with no slider adjustments online) I threw 11 interceptions in 2 games, most of them because of the "super reacting" linebackers in zone coverage and the "legacy issue" of poor pass trajectory. It was ridiculous. On one play, my friend sold out on the blitz (sent like 7 or 8 guys) and dropped his secondary in to short zones. I had a guy WIDE open running and out route behind one of the zones, so I throw a bullet pass with a little loft on it (laughing in joy at my awesome "read"), only to have the linebacker jump up and intercept a pass that was meant for a guy 7-10 yards behind him. This proceeded to happen to me many more times in two online games. Don't get me wrong, about 4 of my 11 INT's were just bad reads on my part and I can accept that, but the other 7 INT's were complete BS by the CPU. From now on I refuse to play any NCAA 12 online games without a bottle of Mrs. Butterworth's next my controller, because I am constantly seeing nothing but pancakes. Even on All American, my ENTIRE Defensive Line is being completely pancaked on both running and passing plays. I don't care if you are playing with some 1,000 member D-III school, Defensive Linemen are not going to get mauled straight to the ground on EVERY play, it just doesn't happen. Along these same lines, 4-3 defensive ends are still worthless. Even in offline play, 4-3 Ends have zero ability to rush the Quarterback AT ALL. This pretty much makes recruiting and using 4-3 Defensive Ends totally useless, as their main job is to kill the QB first and stop the run 2nd. If you are running a 3-4, then they do their job perfectly well, in that they simply tie-up blockers and don't do much else. I ran numerous tests with Florida State's RE (95 overall, 95 Finesse Moves) against Troy's Left Tackle (can't remember overall, 75 Pass Block Footwork). Florida State's RE got NO pressure on the QB until I literally dropped the LT's Pass Block Footwork down to 0. That shouldn't have to happen. Period. On top of these issues, there are still way too many unrealistic dropped balls by WR's online. I have no problems with drops if Receivers/TE's have a bad catch/CIT rating, but dropping balls on streak routes where the receivers are WIDE open, catch the ball, take 2 steps and then get tripped up are ridiculous. The old "last minute option pitch" when you are basically on the ground is still alive and well, as well as the option pitch where the opposing CB runs up and intercepts the ball. Others have touched on this as well, but DB's have eyes in the back of their heads and break/make plays on balls they have no business even being around. WR's and DB's alike still routinely go for the wrong type of catch animations in the wrong situations, and the DB's still swat the ball when they should intercept it, and vice versa. While run blocking is improved, I had a run with Denard Robinson where ALL my WR had to do was block the CB directly in front of him and I was home free, but instead the WR decided to leave the CB to tackle me, and run back to the LOS to block a guy who was completely out of the play. Needless to say, I didn't score on that play. I have yet to see one of these new "diving catch" animations, and I have played well over 30+ online/offline games. The CPU AI quickly gets very boring, predictable and the play-calling can be downright atrocious and nonsensical at times. The game's overall sound is way too low and the "dynamic crowd noise" is sporadic and pretty much a complete joke. At the end of the day EA (yet again) has failed to fix numerous legacy issues (I mean, really, how long have we been complaining about ineffective DE's, super reacting LB's and incorrect pass trajectory?) and deliver a product not riddled with bugs and glaring issues. I understand that no game is perfect and that games will always ship with bugs and glitches, but when it gets to the point where finished games begin to feel incomplete or like Betas, then that is a huge issue. Sliders can somewhat correct (or better yet mask) some of the issues in this game offline (psychic coverage, suspect run blocking, D-Line pancakes), but it still doesn't make the games mechanics function correctly, and what about the online community? In my opinion, it would take a huge patch and a few tuners to get this game playing right online, and I just don't see that happening. For the people that like the game and are enjoying it, good for you. I am glad that you have found a football game that you find fun. There is nothing wrong with that. I personally refuse to let numerous fundamental "football" issues with NCAA slide that other games licked and surpassed years ago. I am really getting tired of the people with legit gameplay complaints being labeled this or that, when the facts are glaringly clear. EA has failed year after year to listen to their community and fix legacy issues that are severely hampering their gameplay. Couple that with the introduction of what seem to be new legacy issues every year and people have the right to be upset and demand better. Period. This game has potential, but I just do not see EA being willing to put the necessary work in to make NCAA 12 what it could be (if they were, they would have shipped it that way). I should have stuck with my first mind and stayed far away from NCAA 12.

HELL of a post illustrator. It's amazing how many reviewers gloss over aspects of this game that are just so fundamentally flawed.

The physics and AI of this game are showing there age so much, it's unbelievable.

There NEEDS to be laws of physics and human awareness applied to EA football titles. I think Madden's AI is a little tighter than NCAA but there is still no sense of physical limitations or capabilities. The players in NCAA don't feel lifelike. Simple physics will tell you that most humans weighing 240 takes longer to jump and can't jump as high an equal athlete weighing 190. Ratings are too heavily involved and simple weight and physics aren't used enough. There are exceptions and ratings should come into play then but I don't feel like simple human awareness and physics are involved enough. The running game's AI is great, but I still don't get that 'push' from the OL you should.....and it makes 4-2-5, 3-2-6, and 3-3-5 too effective against the running game. Passing is a mess altogether from the QB footwork (EA needs to get this right) to the trajectory of balls and how they correspond with WR routes.

[LucianoJJ]

Quote: Originally Posted by SGMRock

On these points above yes I agree with you on the DE's, they say they removed suction blocking but now its more like magnet blocking. You will think you are in the clear and next thing you know your player will turn sideways and be pulled into a OL or HB like you are a piece of steel and they are a high powered magnet. I will say on default AA settings if you lower the threshold though you will find that DE's have a lot more success. I have been playing with 30 threshold and slow game speed mostly default AA settings ( I lower interceptions for both sides because they are out of control) and I was able to break the NCAA record for sacks with my LE paying a base 4-3 defense. With Threshold at 50 not possible at all. The WR/DB are also really affected by the Threshold setting. DBs will stick to your guys like glue if you have Normal Speed and 50 or higher threshold. Also many time they will might be 2 steps behind and you think you have a window but when you pass they magically get way faster and will run from behind and swat the ball or intercept it. I could see this if you threw the pass behind your WR but when you lead your WR so they are runing into the catch no way a DB should be able to put on the rocket shoes and pass your WR to bat or int the ball. Again though if you lower threshold this will stop happening. On the last point about the DBs with backs to the ball and super jumping LBs, I have not found a way to fix that with sliders its just broken. I don't think the LB's are jumping super high so much as its the way the ball travels like you said, the trajectory is off. They have not been able to find a way to arch the ball correctly on passes in my opinion. If you lob pass to arch it more it travels way to slow even on short passes. But if you watch a lot of football or have throw footballs a lot yourself you can see if you throw a pass 20 yds and the LB is at the 10 yd point in between the ball is at its highest point and should not be reachable by a 6' LB who might at best have a 12" vertical leap, not to mention sometimes they jump 5ft sideways and up at the same time to tip them. At best a DB that is running behind a WR with his back to the QB would possibly be able to see the WR turning or putting his hands up to catch a ball and then they would react by turning as well or tossing up an arm to try and deflect a pass they think is coming. Thats not what happens in this game though. They magically know the ball is coming from behind them they jump in the air back to the ball and extend out fully and intercept it. Eyes in the back of their heads I guess. Also if they are behind and you toss it over the WR should they will put the rockets on the shoes again and pass your WR and jump up and Int unless you have threshold down. Also lets not mention how many times I have had a DB literally go through a part of my WR's body to intercept a ball, one time today an elbow went right through the head of my WR and would have been pass interference but I guess my WR was a ghost because the elbow went right through the middle of the head without any problem at all. On your last point I quoted above I believe they depend to much on sliders to fix everything and never really fix the fundamentals of the gameplay. If the players had good fundamentals then sliders would only adjust skill level really. If they had a proper physics engine then you would not see LBs moving right and then suddenly going left and leeping in the air because their right momentem would not allow them to change directions instantly like that. I could go on and on with some of this stuff but I think it comes down to time. Not enough time to toss out a game engine and rebuild it so they settle for tweaking as much as they can with the current one year after year. Also maybe hardware has something to do with the game engine. Games with true physics engines like many of the newer FPS games out there require some good hardware which neither the PS3 or Xbox have anymore, they are 6+ years old now. Having full physics on 22 moving bodies on the field as well as the ball has got to be a CPU/GPU sucking task. Maybe on the next gen console they will do it since they refuse to make these games on PC now, a modern PC would make a kick a** platform for a full physics engine football game.

As some have said earlier, the engine is dated. The hardware is dated. Tiburon spread themselves so thin, with so many elements to the game, that the actual gameplay is inconsistent. Are they waiting for a new console launch to start to rebuild? Is the 360 so maxed out that the PS3 version is held back? Should they just sell key discs and let us download a deeper console version? Should there be a deluxe PC version to take advantage of better hardware?

I liked the Malcolm X clip in the previous post. We have been "hoodwinked." Next Gen gaming has not lived up to the hype. I'm still going to play, and tweak the ratings and sliders to make the games more fun. It's only a game....

[SGMRock]

Quote: Originally Posted by LucianoJJ

Should there be a deluxe PC version to take advantage of better hardware?

Another Studio DICE that has been owned by EA for years does things the right way in this respect. The develope the games with the PC as the main platform and then scale it down to work on the consoles. Battlefield Bad Company 2 was super sweet on PC with DX11 graphics and their Frostbite PC driven physics engine that doesn't require something like NVidia's Physx hardware as it would built by them to run on multicore CPU's. Frostbite 2 used in BF3 is going to be even nicer. Again that game was developed with PC as the primary platform.

PS3 are a year newer than 360's but I don't believe they that much more powerful for what we need today to make a proper game you need to use a multicore PC platform, W7 and 4GB ram on a 64bit OS with a DX11. Then you would see some sweet football games.

If studios took the DICE approach and developed for PC first they would get some great PC games and still have good console games. Just my opinion of course.