Madden NFL 25 News Post

Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - War in the Trenches & Passing Pockets (QJB)

03:01 PM - November 1, 2013 by jpdavis82

QJB is back with a new video, this one looking at the new line play within Madden NFL 25 on next-gen consoles. If you can't see the video above, check it out on YouTube.

Game: Madden NFL 25Reader Score: 5/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments

# 201 ocat @ 11/02/13 10:04 PM

How does Cleveland Brown get a PS4 early?

# 202 AlterEgoDuane @ 11/03/13 10:24 AM

@jpdavis82. I get that there is a new "team" running Madden. But, to be honest, whoever is running Madden means nothing if the basic decisions from above them don't change. This ignite engine they are using is BROKEN. They need to completely scrap it and go to a REAL-TIME PHYSICS engine. Backbreaker was able to do it in two years. Madden can, too.

What they don't get is that canned animations are the farthest thing from 'next-gen' you can possibly have. Canned animations and scripted outcomes are simply unacceptable on the new consoles. So is motion capture. Create the player models to look realistic. Make every single situation and animation dynamic and un-scripted and add real-time physics calculated by the CPU inside the system. That is the ONLY way you will get realistic, simulation gameplay.

Until they do away with the crappy ignite engine, canned animations, scripted outcomes, etc., only minor things will change. Madden can scrap the engine and build a brand new, unscripted, non-canned, non-motion capture animation game in two years and call it Ignite 2 or something. But, until those changes are made, the game will never come close to replicating real football.

So, let me ask you this, JPDavis... Why aren't they investing in an engine like that? Is it the fault of the marketing team and the stockholders? Is it apathy from the CEO and his team? Is it incompetence? What is the problem? If an independent, European effing company with no experience making football games can come up with a real-time physics engine that make every tackle and block dynamic, why can't a multi-billion dollar company figure it out? I'm done falling for this garbage. I'm holding them accountable now. If they want to be truly 'next-gen', then they better get rid of this crappy ignite engine. Or they will be passed by every other video game company who will have truly next-gen software and engines.

This videos and the other videos we have seen are completely unacceptable. Completely. I canceled my pre-order a couple weeks ago and I am proud of it for finally standing up to these out-of-touch execs at EA. They won't get my money until they produce a truly simulation product. If that never happens, then they will never get my money again.

# 203 Boilerbuzz @ 11/03/13 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetpac


	I disagree with this Backbreaker was horrible. Now APF2K8 is amazing and shows just what dedication and hard work + TALENT can do.

Agreed. Backbreaker was a load of crap. A tech demo at best.

# 204 Kaiser Wilhelm @ 11/03/13 05:37 PM

Backbreaker was pretty much the opposite of an EA Football game; too few animations and mo capping (also it wasn't well polished, very raw) where EAs game is just way too many animations that do not get sown together.

# 205 PJ33 @ 11/04/13 09:45 AM

Seriously #91 looks like he would rather dance with the two guys double teaming him then even try to go after Brady. He has a clear path to him and yet decides let's play pat-a-cake with the two linemen. They call this fixed? Keep sending out this hype garbage!!!! I'm still not buying it.

# 206 RexDEAFootball @ 11/04/13 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakedowncapo


	I bet Rex Dickson is reading this thread right now like

Sweet GIF!

# 207 bc21045 @ 11/04/13 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RexDEAFootball


	Sweet GIF!

I have madden on 360, i'm getting a ps4 at launch so I can't do the trade in deal. Is next gen a big enough improvement to justify another $60 in your opinion or should I just wait til next year?

# 208 wordtobigbird @ 11/04/13 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bc21045


	I have madden on 360, i'm getting a ps4 at launch so I can't do the trade in deal. Is next gen a big enough improvement to justify another $60 in your opinion or should I just wait til next year?

Of course will say yes lol. Not that it won't be but your answer will be yes.

I just want to know if things like autosubs, sim stats, CPU play calling, penalties, etc are fixed.

I would love Rex to speak on penalties effecting gameplay as much as sliders..

# 209 Saviour @ 11/04/13 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghettogeeksta


	The line play isn't really that impressive to me, guys are still playing patty cake, still too many stale mates at the line, pass rushers still get warped into offensive linemen instead taking the best angle towards the Qb, and I don't see defensive linemen pushing blockers into the backfield at a fast enough pace to put pressure on the Qb. Only two outcomes the pass rusher gets blocked solidly or they break away from the O-linemen for a clean shot on the Qb. O-linemen just give up after they get beat, they don't even attempt to hold, or go low to make up for missed blocks. In this video, Pace gets past the left tackle, the tackle is still looking forward while Pace is about to end Brandy's career. We need a new gameplay/animation engine, they are still trying to build on a old broken engine. Its not going to work even if the upgraded hardware.

Exactly.... Next Gen systems should have brought next gen engines. This looks exactly like current gen. You cant fool me with up close slow motion replays.

# 210 Boilerbuzz @ 11/04/13 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrikan


	he went into detail about his opinion..where as you just made a broad statement. and you are worse. this is just like posting "Madden sux" and leaving....same stuff. just drive by trolling.

No. First, it was an expression of my opinion on BACKBREAKER. And since this isn't a BB thread, why does the thread need to be derailed any further with details of an insignificant game (my opinion). Secondly, my point was to leave BB out of the discussion because comparisons to Madden of THAT game? Madden wins! Third, he's "details" as you call them, we NOT details at all. Just more hyperbole and opinion on a game that has nothing to do with this particular discussion.

So, speaking of drive by trolling, what do you call YOUR post?

# 211 wordtobigbird @ 11/04/13 03:04 PM

Madden NEEDS an engine like Euphoria. Just look how realistic that engine made GTA. But a new engine is asking for a lot.

Can we at least get better player ratings? Accurate player size (JJ watt) and equipment (whoever)? Realistic sim stats? A less glitchy/bugged game at release? Better CPU AI logic from play calling to team management in CFM? I could go on and on..

# 212 Boilerbuzz @ 11/04/13 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrikan


	do you understand why he brought up BackBreaker? what comparisons?...it wasn't Which game is better...it was about player interactions and physics and how that can help the Madden franchise... I'm paraphrasing here, so Ian can correct me if I'm way off base, I mean even Ian finally admitted that he would've liked to have BackBreaker's Euphoria engine....but it didn't work out.

I'm totally aware of why it was brought up. And even in the department of physics, the loose, ragdoll engine in BB was different, but we was STILL wrong. But no one paid attention to that little fact I guess.

Quote:


	what's this Madden wins stuff...lol... its not about that, its about trying to point things out and hopefully making the only NFL licensed game better than it currently is.

So, basically, the CORE of the issues that people have with Madden boils down to having an Euphoria type engine? That would be nice to have in Madden and is a large part of the motivation for the Infinity Engine and all, but that only begins to cover the issues with the game. As I've said many times, proper zone principles. Pass blocking logic (picking the right players to block), fronts and coverages, pass physics. I've gone through that list. Realistic, fluid movement and animations (BB animations looked terrible). So, again, if someone wants to say Madden should inherit anything BB did, I would say they are already on the path to doing so with the ONLY thing they should copy. The IE is rough, but it's a start.

Quote:


	and you are going to compare the intent of my post, to yours?...ok lol.

Yes, sir, I am. How quaint that you can type "lol". Good job. You win there just because. I'll say again - BB was crap and even though I rage at Madden's lack of progression, I'd rather they not give sniff at BB now that they have something like the Infinity Engine to work with and develop. If you have an issue with that, I feel for you.

# 213 Boilerbuzz @ 11/04/13 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by royounggoku


	There were aspects of Backbreaker that made it a bad game, the animation and physics weren't one of them. Which was why it was brought up in the first place.

The dynamic part of the animation system was nice. It wasn't totally accurate, but it was good. The actual animation quality, however, was not.

Look, I'm cool with these kinds of upgrades to the genre. I REALLY am. I just want them to get the BASIC *football* right before they start throwing more tech at the game. That's all I ask. You're wishes may differ and that's cool. If I buy a football game, I want to start with the football.

# 214 atvmx21 @ 11/04/13 08:57 PM

Wow that is terrible... That throwing motion is atrocious and Brady looks like a hermit crab.

# 215 wordtobigbird @ 11/04/13 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fldash


	MLB The Show teaser trailer for PS4 says they went from 90 crowd models to over 1000. http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/...4-ps3-and-vita

"When it's all said and done, reality is the best innovation."

# 216 TCFClemson @ 11/04/13 09:28 PM

I dk why people keep bragging about the crowd it looks like 8-10 models max.

Looks terrible to see about 5 identical twins sitting within shouting distance.

# 217 TCFClemson @ 11/04/13 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrikan


	Euphoria engine in Backbreaker had more to do than just physics and tackling. It helped AI of your teammates and the player you controlled. (like when the ball carrier knew he was close to the goal line, reaching out with the ball) If you played the game you could see that the - Oline in pass protection- real double team blocking...with no canned animations...angles and physics determined results Oline run blocking- offensive players constantly looking for someone to block...and down field blockers staying close to you to help block...and were not just running side by side with your or in front of you like in most football games. I mean the game wasn't perfect and had its flaws...from basic stuff, to gameplay features important to football. But it was a real good start from a dev team overseas. how do some expect the genre of football gaming to improve, if you write off something and bash it when its obviously trying to bring something new? Do yall actually think that EA would've brought physics that soon if it weren't for BackBreaker? Sure Madden 13 had issues, but the fact that they got it started is what was important..and all they can do from there is improve on it. I'm not saying to blindly support other games, but if you want to see Madden make legit progress...then you are going to have to support whenever competition is around...which is rare. Support doesn't mean you have to buy the game, BUT don't write off what the new game is trying to do. You point out the good aspects of it, show EA Tiburon or who ever has said license..and you let them know that there is something else you know about that is POSSIBLE..and that they should take notice. THAT is why you see people show gifs and example of other games. It was possible before...it is an example to go off.

I agree 100% with Backbreaker. At its core its engine was fantastic. It lacked some of the AI stuff and features. They also should not have been so stuborn with their camera.

# 218 TCFClemson @ 11/04/13 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	Agreed. Backbreaker was a load of crap. A tech demo at best.

If you want to call it a tech demo that is fine but it was a damn good tech demo. It showed that a full on RTP engine could work in a football game LAST Gen.

# 219 DaveDQ @ 11/04/13 09:50 PM

I go back and forth with my feelings toward the game. In the end I'm convinced EA just can't get football down.

Ignite is really looking blah.

# 220 Boilerbuzz @ 11/04/13 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrikan


	Euphoria engine in Backbreaker had more to do than just physics and tackling. It helped AI of your teammates and the player you controlled. (like when the ball carrier knew he was close to the goal line, reaching out with the ball) If you played the game you could see that the - Oline in pass protection- real double team blocking...with no canned animations...angles and physics determined results Oline run blocking- offensive players constantly looking for someone to block...and down field blockers staying close to you to help block...and were not just running side by side with your or in front of you like in most football games. I mean the game wasn't perfect and had its flaws...from basic stuff, to gameplay features important to football. But it was a real good start from a dev team overseas. how do some expect the genre of football gaming to improve, if you write off something and bash it when its obviously trying to bring something new? Do yall actually think that EA would've brought physics that soon if it weren't for BackBreaker? Sure Madden 13 had issues, but the fact that they got it started is what was important..and all they can do from there is improve on it. I'm not saying to blindly support other games, but if you want to see Madden make legit progress...then you are going to have to support whenever competition is around...which is rare. Support doesn't mean you have to buy the game, BUT don't write off what the new game is trying to do. You point out the good aspects of it, show EA Tiburon or who ever has said license..and you let them know that there is something else you know about that is POSSIBLE..and that they should take notice. THAT is why you see people show gifs and example of other games. It was possible before...it is an example to go off.

Good points man. I may not have been happy with the overall quality of the features it attempted from from a football standpoint. But I did appreciate the attempt. Overall, I stand by my opinion of the game from a football game perspective. But I do owe it a measure of respect for the reasons you pointed out. Thanks for calling me on it. Are we good?

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