Madden NFL 11 News Post

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

02:46 PM - January 24, 2011 by RaychelSnr

I recentely sat down for a talk with FBGRatings.com's Dan Berens to discuss his site's vision and what's going on over there today. The site is currently working on getting accurate ratings for every player using real hard data converted into the Madden ratings universe. Dan claims that when these numbers are plugged into the game, it plays much better and much closer to real life. Check out the interview below and also check out Dan's website to see what he's got going on!

Interview with Berens on the OS Radio Show on BlogTalkRadio

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Member Comments

# 301 DCEBB2001 @ 07/31/11 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHSLax_D24


	http://www.ea.com/madden-nfl/blog/dy...mance-features New feature for Madden 12.

As of right now, no I will not be adding these but I think it would be something to look forward to for 2012.

# 302 Argooos @ 07/31/11 08:52 PM

Hey, quick question: Are you still on-target for your previously stated timeline? You said back in January that you'd be working on Phase 2 in late July, but most (if not all) players still say New 2010 OVERALLS Coming Soon: Offseason at the bottom of the page. So are you still in phase 1, or have you moved on to phase 2?

# 303 DCEBB2001 @ 07/31/11 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argooos


	Hey, quick question: Are you still on-target for your previously stated timeline? You said back in January that you'd be working on Phase 2 in late July, but most (if not all) players still say New 2010 OVERALLS Coming Soon: Offseason at the bottom of the page. So are you still in phase 1, or have you moved on to phase 2?

All players still have their offseason ratings. They will be updated to "Preseason" once the preseason is nearly complete. From there, the ratings will be implemented for Week 1 of the regular season and the players will be tagged with "W1" as their date.

# 304 mestevo @ 07/31/11 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	As of right now, no I will not be adding these but I think it would be something to look forward to for 2012.

I'm guessing same goes for consistency and whatnot? These are big changes and make the game much more fluid (for the better) and make players much more than their statistics.

I guess I still am kinda unsure why you undertook this effort, couldn't Madden change how important strength or speed or something is in the engine and just ruin all of this? Suddenly the lowest stats are 10, highest are 85 and only exceptional/streaking players can hit 100? Couldn't they have done something like that (though less dramatic than the example) already and we just don't know it? Or the reverse, strength isn't factored in enough during gameplay, and speed is too fast, leading these stats to skew the problems even further?

Either way, with streaks, consistency, and the roles, the baseline stats will then be considerably devalued in Madden 12.

# 305 DCEBB2001 @ 07/31/11 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mestevo


	I'm guessing same goes for consistency and whatnot? These are big changes and make the game much more fluid (for the better) and make players much more than their statistics. I guess I still am kinda unsure why you undertook this effort, couldn't Madden change how important strength or speed or something is in the engine and just ruin all of this? Suddenly the lowest stats are 10, highest are 85 and only exceptional/streaking players can hit 100? Couldn't they have done something like that (though less dramatic than the example) already and we just don't know it? Or the reverse, strength isn't factored in enough during gameplay, and speed is too fast, leading these stats to skew the problems even further? Either way, with streaks, consistency, and the roles, the baseline stats will then be considerably devalued in Madden 12.

Madden will still need ratings. Getting the formulas to figure in the OVR ratings is easy. Stretching the ratings to what EA does is simple too. The hard part is just entering in all the data and correlating the scouting data to numerical data. But, since that is mostly done for the players currently in the database, it is not as big of a project anymore. It was hard to get it to that point though.

# 306 TearsOfPurple @ 08/01/11 02:54 AM

This is a great undertaking. But I don't know if I can take some of these ratings seriously. Really, no disrespect to you, but when Chris Cook is rated 54 while Frank Walker is a 74 is just insane. Some of the ratings are way off, but that's just my opinion from a Viking's fan standpoint. Maybe I'm just missing something and the OVR doesn't mean much...

# 307 at23steelers @ 08/01/11 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TearsOfPurple


	This is a great undertaking. But I don't know if I can take some of these ratings seriously. Really, no disrespect to you, but when Chris Cook is rated 54 while Frank Walker is a 74 is just insane. Some of the ratings are way off, but that's just my opinion from a Viking's fan standpoint. Maybe I'm just missing something and the OVR doesn't mean much...

As you can see in the post above, these ratings are from the offseason. DCEBB said when the preseason is about over, he will assign new overalls. The attributes will be close to what they will be, but the overalls will change.

# 308 DCEBB2001 @ 08/01/11 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TearsOfPurple


	This is a great undertaking. But I don't know if I can take some of these ratings seriously. Really, no disrespect to you, but when Chris Cook is rated 54 while Frank Walker is a 74 is just insane. Some of the ratings are way off, but that's just my opinion from a Viking's fan standpoint. Maybe I'm just missing something and the OVR doesn't mean much...

The reason Cook is rated a 54 is because he ended up suffering tears in both his left and right meniscus during the course of the season and underwent arthroscopic surgeries. He was also placed on IR. If you would have read the entire thread you have seen that INJURIES AFFECT THE OVR RATING. Look at the other attributes to give yourself a better idea of where he will be rated.

I don't know about anyone else here, but it seems that it is hard to take some of these posters seriously when they ask questions that have been answered a million times beforehand in the same thread.

Although I can see why you are clamoring for a rookie who was injured...he is a Viking after all and you need all the help you can get.

# 309 Argooos @ 08/01/11 10:12 AM

To be fair, it's a really long thread. It took me about an hour to go through the whole thing. Not everyone has that kind of time (heck, I don't have that kind of time - I should have been working)

Perhaps the creation of a FAQ page on your website would help solve the issue?

# 310 TearsOfPurple @ 08/01/11 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The reason Cook is rated a 54 is because he ended up suffering tears in both his left and right meniscus during the course of the season and underwent arthroscopic surgeries. He was also placed on IR. If you would have read the entire thread you have seen that INJURIES AFFECT THE OVR RATING. Look at the other attributes to give yourself a better idea of where he will be rated. I don't know about anyone else here, but it seems that it is hard to take some of these posters seriously when they ask questions that have been answered a million times beforehand in the same thread. Although I can see why you are clamoring for a rookie who was injured...he is a Viking after all and you need all the help you can get.

Sorry man, like I said, no disrespect. But I don't have the time to read this whole thread. Like the poster above me said; a FAQ would be great.

Call me a homer if you please, but I saw Cook in training camp (I live 8miles away from training camp), and last years preseason. If he didn't get injured he'd have a great year last year. But, I guess it makes sense his OVR is decreased because of injuries.

# 311 mestevo @ 08/01/11 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The reason Cook is rated a 54 is because he ended up suffering tears in both his left and right meniscus during the course of the season and underwent arthroscopic surgeries. He was also placed on IR. If you would have read the entire thread you have seen that INJURIES AFFECT THE OVR RATING. Look at the other attributes to give yourself a better idea of where he will be rated. I don't know about anyone else here, but it seems that it is hard to take some of these posters seriously when they ask questions that have been answered a million times beforehand in the same thread. Although I can see why you are clamoring for a rookie who was injured...he is a Viking after all and you need all the help you can get.

You'd have to go all the way back to page 9, post #59 (January, more than 6 months and 260 posts ago) to read "The OVR does incorporate injuries" and injuries were only mentioned twice since and not as explicit as that statement... a far cry from 'a million times'.

# 312 RogueHominid @ 08/01/11 01:42 PM

This is a great thread. I've read it nearly in its entirety, in addition to looking at the site. I have a couple of questions particularly about the speed rating.

I'm in agreement that the game drastically overrates players' speeds. The OP's argument is that getting speed ratings (among others) back to realistic levels better allows position-specific ratings to dominate.

My question is *how* does that work? As it stands, speed trumps position specific attributes at most positions. What is the mechanism that makes position specific attributes matter more when the overall speed of the league is reduced?

In other words, I guess the question is this: since Madden seems to be built in such a way that speed matters more than anything else, how does re-rating players circumvent this basic element of the game's build?

I'm going to work on the Nnamdi vs. Jacoby Ford case to try to get my mind around how this translates on the field, since Ford has 99 speed and elite acceleration, 90 route running and 80 release. Theoretically, Nnamdi would shadow Ford very well, but I want to see how it works in the game.

Could you just explain the mechanism briefly so the argument makes better sense to me? Thanks for providing such an interesting topic for discussion!

# 313 DCEBB2001 @ 08/01/11 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mestevo


	You'd have to go all the way back to page 9, post #59 (January, more than 6 months and 260 posts ago) to read "The OVR does incorporate injuries" and injuries were only mentioned twice since and not as explicit as that statement... a far cry from 'a million times'.

Well I suppose twice is still double the amount of times I feel I should have to address it.

# 314 DCEBB2001 @ 08/01/11 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TearsOfPurple


	Sorry man, like I said, no disrespect. But I don't have the time to read this whole thread. Like the poster above me said; a FAQ would be great. Call me a homer if you please, but I saw Cook in training camp (I live 8miles away from training camp), and last years preseason. If he didn't get injured he'd have a great year last year. But, I guess it makes sense his OVR is decreased because of injuries.

That's a big if, and 2 injuries and surgeries to your knees will definitely have an impact. We will see how he does once he is back to full strength.

# 315 DCEBB2001 @ 08/01/11 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trojan Man


	This is a great thread. I've read it nearly in its entirety, in addition to looking at the site. I have a couple of questions particularly about the speed rating. I'm in agreement that the game drastically overrates players' speeds. The OP's argument is that getting speed ratings (among others) back to realistic levels better allows position-specific ratings to dominate. My question is how does that work? As it stands, speed trumps position specific attributes at most positions. What is the mechanism that makes position specific attributes matter more when the overall speed of the league is reduced? In other words, I guess the question is this: since Madden seems to be built in such a way that speed matters more than anything else, how does re-rating players circumvent this basic element of the game's build? I'm going to work on the Nnamdi vs. Jacoby Ford case to try to get my mind around how this translates on the field, since Ford has 99 speed and elite acceleration, 90 route running and 80 release. Theoretically, Nnamdi would shadow Ford very well, but I want to see how it works in the game. Could you just explain the mechanism briefly so the argument makes better sense to me? Thanks for providing such an interesting topic for discussion!

By diluting the raw attributes of SPD, ACC, AGI, STR, and JMP you are decreasing their effectiveness when they work SYMBIOTICALLY with other attributes. That is to say that some ratings work in tandem, and not independently, of others. For example, decreasing the ACC of a player will affect how fast he gets in and out of his cuts. The inverse is also true, as the RTE rating will also affect how well a player accelerates on his breaks. So, if you have a player like Ford who has great SPD and ACC, but is going to struggle to get off of the line, a guy like Nnamdi or Revis who have MCV and PRS ratings in the upper 90s will be able to stifle him at the line, which is the same way they do it on Sundays. Asomugha is not a superior athlete. However, his superior technique allows him to not even let a receiver get into his route. You will see this if you use him properly even against a guy like Ford who is the better overall athlete.

Principals like this are what make the system work. There are some testimonies in this thread so feel free to read them.

# 316 xpmar9x @ 08/01/11 08:55 PM

Lol @ Nate Washingtons rating...

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using Tapatalk.

# 317 DCEBB2001 @ 08/01/11 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpmar9x


	Lol @ Nate Washingtons rating... Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using Tapatalk.

The best part to me is that production doesn't always mean a great individual grade. Production for a WR is not solely based on the individual, but rather, is the product of an OL giving the QB enough time to throw, the QB making an accurate throw, and the WR doing the rest. Washington didn't have a great season, but he didn't have Brady, Manning, or Rodgers throwing him the ball either.

# 318 RogueHominid @ 08/01/11 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	By diluting the raw attributes of SPD, ACC, AGI, STR, and JMP you are decreasing their effectiveness when they work SYMBIOTICALLY with other attributes.

I can't tell if you answered my question or not, lol. I'm not debating the theory, nor am I debating how Nnamdi covers receivers in real life who are faster and more agile than him in raw data terms. That's all perfectly understandable and sensible.

What I'm trying to figure out is how lowering speeds generally makes other attributes matter more. It seems like speed overrides many attributes for skill position guys in the game as it stands. Does lowering speeds allow other ratings to "kick in," so to speak, and become relevant?

Just a random example from online leagues I was in. Guys would draft receivers who were super fast, and it didn't much matter if they could run routes or catch all that well; they still made plays. How does making them slower make route running or catching a bigger deal?

Once again, I'm not arguing. I'm just confused about how this transformation is effected in the game.

# 319 DCEBB2001 @ 08/01/11 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trojan Man


	I can't tell if you answered my question or not, lol. I'm not debating the theory, nor am I debating how Nnamdi covers receivers in real life who are faster and more agile than him in raw data terms. That's all perfectly understandable and sensible. What I'm trying to figure out is how lowering speeds generally makes other attributes matter more. It seems like speed overrides many attributes for skill position guys in the game as it stands. Does lowering speeds allow other ratings to "kick in," so to speak, and become relevant? Just a random example from online leagues I was in. Guys would draft receivers who were super fast, and it didn't much matter if they could run routes or catch all that well; they still made plays. How does making them slower make route running or catching a bigger deal? Once again, I'm not arguing. I'm just confused about how this transformation is effected in the game.

The raw attributes, such as speed, affect other attributes that the player uses. Leveling out the SPD ratings, for example, lessens the affect of SPD on that attribute, leaving that attribute to be more dependent. The primary goal, however, was to make these attributes more realistic to hard data and stretch them out. Finding out how they work symbiotically with other attributes was purely a coincidence to me. However, upon me finding out how they worked in game, I decided to use my ratings to help them become better implemented.

# 320 RogueHominid @ 08/01/11 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The raw attributes, such as speed, affect other attributes that the player uses. Leveling out the SPD ratings, for example, lessens the affect of SPD on that attribute, leaving that attribute to be more dependent. The primary goal, however, was to make these attributes more realistic to hard data and stretch them out. Finding out how they work symbiotically with other attributes was purely a coincidence to me. However, upon me finding out how they worked in game, I decided to use my ratings to help them become better implemented.

Well that's interesting. So just being faster makes players in Madden better at position-specific skills that in reality are not speed dependent? Lol @ the rationale behind that decision, if it was in fact a conscious decision of the game's programmers.

Knowing that certainly makes sense out of the observable fact that super fast corners who weren't necessarily great cover guys could be great cover guys in the game, and so on down the line.

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