NBA Elite 11 News Post

NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

06:00 PM - September 2, 2010 by Steve_OS

User vs. AI Video:

Our second NBA ELITE 11 gameplay video features more 5 on 5 action with NBA ELITE Gameplay Producer Novell Thomas taking on a CPU controlled Oklahoma City Thunder. The game is played on a pre-final build on All Star difficulty. Check out REAL AI in action as Kevin Durant attacks the basket with sequences that he recorded himself. You will be seeing more of these videos leading up to the demo.

In NBA ELITE 11 you're in control.

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Member Comments

# 341 jmarcguy @ 09/04/10 01:36 AM

I'm backwards. He's on the left of the basket & uses his right hand.

# 342 Rocboyz101 @ 09/04/10 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	PM you're right on man... I also cannot believe noone has mentioned anything about real NBA authentic plays Will each team be just as similar as this

Thats a whole other issue entirely..sincerely hope not.

# 343 23 @ 09/04/10 01:45 AM

I havent seen them, so thats why I brought it up.. I saw no semblance of LA running the triangle or anything of the sort.

# 344 yungflo @ 09/04/10 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgthem


	Okay i have a thought , when your playing basketball in real life and you cut to the rim to do a layup what your illustrating is an animation believe it or not..you ever notice only rarely does somewhat step between you and the rim while your doing your two step to gather because your moving quick. But everyone watches the ball and anticipates the block..while your doing this .--animation- you can't suddenly stop because its traveling but you can pass out of it. IN 2k you can pass out of it i'm pretty sure...this is what full control is. In real life what you do is a canned animation believe it or not but just like ina video game you can pass out of it and you can be stripped like in 2k..i'm pretty sure they added this in LIve 10 don't know about elite ...canned animations make a basketball game. You ever see in basketball games a guy who starts to dunk only to have the ball slapped out his hand yet he still jumps to the rim while looking down at the ball...yea..he was in a canned animation but it happens in real life your mind responds faster then your body and last time i recalled in 2k you could pass out of every animation however where it went was random and i'm pretty sure it was applied in few animations in elite..or maybe not Ea's animations haven't always been there strong suit..but who knows ELIte maybe different

I think they are referring to the canimations like when the person skips to the hoop, with a body attached to them, two player canimations lol, not slip ups.

# 345 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgthem


	Yea but like i recall in Live 10 where when you picked the ball froma guy they'd stumble back..and people cay thats a canimation people have used the word so much they don't know what it means anymore. Your guy stumbling back from gettingt eh ball stripped is not a canimation thats human reaction when i'm on the court and someone slaps the ball out my hand i stumble back sometimes or hesitate in a huge WTF reaction because your body is broken out of fluid movement people need to remember that some animations represent human reaction not just some .---canimation

But do you stumble back in exactly the same way, every single time?

Yes, every animation is inherently "canned," but that's not what people are talking about. What they're talking about is something like tipped rebounds in 10, where the first guy to tip the ball was always going to get it, since the ball was not live at the time. Also, most of the fouls were canned, as they were specifically foul animations. Everytime they happened, it would be a foul. You don't foul exactly the same each time, right?

# 346 23 @ 09/04/10 02:14 AM

Please man, rebounding in general has been broken and awful in Live this entire generation... how in the world are you going to point to one game in the entire series??

Its one of the things people have been asking to fix for years. It has nothing to do with canned animations as it was rebounding needed major work

MAJOR. People arent really identifying the real problems

# 347 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgthem


	THen i need to leave this therad i guess because in 2k10 there were not as many canimations like they though some where a milisecond to long even the akward ones that missed most of the time didn't always draw fouls you guys must simply be playing the wrong game?

I'm not really sure what you mean here, but the biggest problem in gaming in general are animations that the user has no control over. For example, in Live last year there were 2-player animations that would force a user-controlled player to jump and commit a foul, even if the user did not command the jump. The game simply jumped for him. It was the single most frustrating thing about the game, and pretty much negated any fun that was to be had in driving to the basket (because your success rate was basically random and predicated on which predetermined animation was going to play) or in playing center (because position and action selection (to jump or not to jump) were basically irrelevant, as you'd occasionally get bailed out on bad positioning because you got sucked into the offensive player. Basically, particularly on defense in the pain, you could just select a player and put the controller down, and the game would play itself. Post entry passes were also a bigtime problem, as you would have to manually pull your offensive post entry receiver away from any contact so as to not get sucked into an animation that resulted in a turnover. No bueno.

The other game definitely has some issues like that (the charge animation in 2k10 was particularly egregious) but in general there weren't many times where a play happened without some user input. One could consistently avoid fouls as a big defending the paint and could be reasonably assured that intelligent basketball decisions (like jumping straight up instead of toward an offensive player) would be rewarded with the proper feedback (no call instead of a foul).

Both games had their strengths last year. To me Live was much better on offense, while 2k was much better on defense. Live had a much better playcalling and halfcourt game, while 2k had a much better fastbreak game.

But to your original point, animations where the user has no control over the outcome of the animation are a scourge on gaming. Control is king. Hopefully, in time, the look of elite will catch up to the alleged control, but until then, if the dev team can live up to their promises, this game will set a new standard for how bball games should play. It may not set the standard in terms of looks (especially with generic dribble styles), but play wise it should be very rewarding.

# 348 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	Please man, rebounding in general has been broken and awful in Live this entire generation... how in the world are you going to point to one game in the entire series?? Its one of the things people have been asking to fix for years. It has nothing to do with canned animations as it was rebounding needed major work MAJOR. People arent really identifying the real problems

I know you're a mod but you need to step back on this one, chief. The post I was responding to seemed to ask why canned animations were bad, and how they affected the game negatively. The tipped rebounding in live 10 was the most recent and, to me, most clear cut example of why canned animations are so bad, especially considering that there is a clear analog in the other game, where those tips aren't predetermined.

# 349 PRAY IV M3RCY @ 09/04/10 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrprice33


	I'm not really sure what you mean here, but the biggest problem in gaming in general are animations that the user has no control over. For example, in Live last year there were 2-player animations that would force a user-controlled player to jump and commit a foul, even if the user did not command the jump. The game simply jumped for him. It was the single most frustrating thing about the game, and pretty much negated any fun that was to be had in driving to the basket (because your success rate was basically random and predicated on which predetermined animation was going to play) or in playing center (because position and action selection (to jump or not to jump) were basically irrelevant, as you'd occasionally get bailed out on bad positioning because you got sucked into the offensive player. Basically, particularly on defense in the pain, you could just select a player and put the controller down, and the game would play itself. Post entry passes were also a bigtime problem, as you would have to manually pull your offensive post entry receiver away from any contact so as to not get sucked into an animation that resulted in a turnover. No bueno. The other game definitely has some issues like that (the charge animation in 2k10 was particularly egregious) but in general there weren't many times where a play happened without some user input. One could consistently avoid fouls as a big defending the paint and could be reasonably assured that intelligent basketball decisions (like jumping straight up instead of toward an offensive player) would be rewarded with the proper feedback (no call instead of a foul). Both games had their strengths last year. To me Live was much better on offense, while 2k was much better on defense. Live had a much better playcalling and halfcourt game, while 2k had a much better fastbreak game. But to your original point, animations where the user has no control over the outcome of the animation are a scourge on gaming. Control is king. Hopefully, in time, the look of elite will catch up to the alleged control, but until then, if the dev team can live up to their promises, this game will set a new standard for how bball games should play. It may not set the standard in terms of looks (especially with generic dribble styles), but play wise it should be very rewarding.

yea, but what you are talking about, is something that hasnt been seen yet. Sure the way Elite is going could set the standard for basketball games, but not as it is right now. Visuals do matter, and so does control, and balancing these things out is the standard for a great basketball game.

# 350 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgthem


	Okay wait---------so what are you saying?...who -

I quote the posts I respond to.

The responses to your posts about canned animations are pretty clearly highlighted, as they contain your posts in them.

# 351 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRAY IV M3RCY


	yea, but what you are talking about, is something that hasnt been seen yet. Sure the way Elite is going could set the standard for basketball games, but not as it is right now. Visuals do matter, and so does control, and balancing these things out is the standard for a great basketball game.

Of course. That's why I said IF the devs live up to their promises, it sets a new standard for control and player interaction in a basketball game. Visually it's not going to be there yet because they have stripped away a lot of the animations (at least in certain areas) in favor of control (or at least, that's what they're saying). Hopefully, if it all works out, new, better animations will replace the old ones (especially in dribbling packages) and we'll get a game that looks as organic as it (hopefully) feels.

The first NHL that used this type of system had pretty much every guy handle the stick in the same way, so as to create consistency for users input across the board. Once that consistency is established, it's time then to start loading the animations onto the system to create variety.

# 352 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgthem


	Yea but in Elite wasn't the tipped rebound always going to the one who originally tipped it?

In Live last year that's exactly what happened. That's what I said.

"What they're talking about is something like tipped rebounds in 10, where the first guy to tip the ball was always going to get it, since the ball was not live at the time."

When I said "especially considering that there is a clear analog in the other game, where those tips aren't predetermined." I was talking about 2k.

# 353 coolcras7 @ 09/04/10 02:44 AM

control means nothing when you have 10 men on the court doing the exact same moves, and for all the control let me tell you what everyone online will be doing cross, cross, spin, hopstep, and dunk, enjoy, or cross, cross, pick and roll, dunk.

# 354 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgthem


	See yea but thats also what 23 was saying and you like corrected him like he was wrong only to repeat what he said thats why i was like wait what? did i miss something

No, 23 seemed to think that I thought all that was wrong with live's rebounding was the canned tip animation. That's not the case. He failed to take into account that I was responding to your posts about canned animations and that I used the tipped rebound as an easy example of the problem with canned animations. My post wasn't about rebounding at all, and had I used a different example (which I did in my second post, about foul calls and collisions), he really would not have had any reason to respond to my post at all, and certainly not in the way he responded.

# 355 23 @ 09/04/10 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrprice33


	I know you're a mod but you need to step back on this one, chief. The post I was responding to seemed to ask why canned animations were bad, and how they affected the game negatively. The tipped rebounding in live 10 was the most recent and, to me, most clear cut example of why canned animations are so bad, especially considering that there is a clear analog in the other game, where those tips aren't predetermined.

You need to step back not me. Rebounding regardless of last year has lacked in this series since last gen. You guys are letting the whole canned thing run you wild. If tips werent in there rebound is still poor regardless. It was poor in 09, 09, 07, 05, etc...

That still doesnt justify gimping the game, just fix it and thats all that needed to be done.

Matter of fact even now all you can do is hold up on the stick and the CPU reaches for you, so to be honest, the true rebounding problem is far deeper than an animation

# 356 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcras7


	control means nothing when you have 10 men on the court doing the exact same moves, and for all the control let me tell you what everyone online will be doing cross, cross, spin, hopstep, and dunk, enjoy, or cross, cross, pick and roll, dunk.

And last year with less control all they did was run run run and shoot 3s. Basketball games, like pretty much every other sports game, are ruined by online randoms. This goes for both games, and pretty much every genre.

People are totally going to take this the wrong way, but animations are overrated, imo. If you look at a game like UFC 2009, that game had a great stand up and a ridiculously deep ground system. The systems had depth in terms of control and feedback, even though pretty much every guy had the same basic animations for punching, kicking, submissions, etc. There were occasional signature animations (mostly in submissions, I think), but the meat of that game was the depth of the actual play, and the different strategic and skill permutations that could exist. IF Elite lives up to the promise of the developers (and that we won't know for at least another few weeks), we could have something similar here, where it's not necessarily how the moves look and whether or not Jameer Nelson has the same crossover as Chris Paul, but whether or not the depth of the control allows me to properly set the defender up and get to my spot in the way an actual NBA player does, even if the animations that play out don't necessarily look how they should. That's where this game could shine.

# 357 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	You need to step back not me. Rebounding regardless of last year has lacked in this series since last gen. You guys are letting the whole canned thing run you wild. If tips werent in there rebound is still poor regardless. It was poor in 09, 09, 07, 05, etc... That still doesnt justify gimping the game, just fix it and thats all that needed to be done. Matter of fact even now all you can do is hold up on the stick and the CPU reaches for you, so to be honest, the true rebounding problem is far deeper than an animation

But my post was not about the rebounding system in any other way except that the one specific instance of the tipped rebound was an example I used in order to illustrate a point about the potential downfalls of canned animations, and it certainly didn't warrant the response that it got from you, a mod.

# 358 23 @ 09/04/10 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrprice33


	But my post was not about the rebounding system in any other way except that the one specific instance of the tipped rebound was an example I used in order to illustrate a point about the potential downfalls of canned animations, and it certainly didn't warrant the response that it got from you, a mod.

My point is that its there because of the rebounding issues, and that one explanation of some canned animation being the doom of basketball games doesnt fly. You cannot use that example while already choosing a flawed part of the game in the first place.

The problem here is the control argument is a bunch of garbage to most of the fans here, and there is no way in the world you sacrifice realism in the game in order to justify unnecessary control.

Oh and anybody that gets ran through by randoms and continue to do so is their own fault.

# 359 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	My point is that its there because of the rebounding issues, and that one explanation of some canned animation being the doom of basketball games doesnt fly. You cannot use that example while already choosing a flawed part of the game in the first place. The problem here is the control argument is a bunch of garbage to most of the fans here, and there is no way in the world you sacrifice realism in the game in order to justify unnecessary control. Oh and anybody that gets ran through by randoms and continue to do so is their own fault.

What? So because that part of the game is flawed in other ways I can't use a very specific part of it as an example of a larger problem in the game? Did you not see my post which talked about the same problem existing in user interior defense? Had I just used that as my sole example, would you still have a problem with my post? Does the fact that the rebounding system is bad in general detract from anything I said with regards to canned tipped ball animations, and how taking that control away from the user is a bad thing?

You seem to think that I think that giving the user more control automatically fixes everything with this game (it doesn't) and nowhere have I said that. Again, the post I was responding to SPECIFICALLY questioned why canned animations were a bad thing. I responded to that post, and my comments about the tipped rebounds should be isolated in how they specifically answer that post.

To answer your point about the "more control is good" argument being "garbage," I'll ask you this: Which is a more realistic representation of a basketball play? Dwayne Wade is driving to the rim for a layup. Dwight Howard is guarding his man, but slides over for help. Choice A is that Howard would get sucked into Wade, powerless to do anything about it, and would commit a foul, all the while completely losing control of his body. Choice B is that Howard slides over, and can choose whether or not to try and block Wade's shot, and any collision they have is the product of the natural forces of gravity, physics, momentum, etc. Alternately, Howard keeps control of this body throughout the play, sees that he's late (or doesn't want to risk a foul) and contests with his hands, without throwing his body into Wade.

# 360 mrprice33 @ 09/04/10 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgthem


	Why does it matter that he's a mod..it dosen't matter at all he's a person sharing his opinion just like you are. he dosen't have some god like personality that prevents him from showing emotion he isn't threatening to ban you or anything your just intimidated by him because of his title so just let that whole mod thing go ..........and to your statement before the one quoted so are you saying that variety in animations don't matter................................you know thats one reason that could hender its sells right..

Honestly, that interaction is really none of your business, and if it needs to go to PMs between 23 and myself, we will. We're big boys.

Yeah, a lack of variety of animations could hinder Elite's sales for sure. If it plays well, why would you care? Live was killing 2K in sales from 2001-2006, all the while having the inferior game. Sales mean bupkiss.

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