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Madden NFL 17 News Post

The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

  04:37 PM - August 9, 2016 by Steve_OS

Madden NFL 17 Associate Game Designer, Ryan "RG" Glick and the Madden team have sent us this exclusive blog covering the return of formation subs. Make sure to read it and post your thoughts.

Game: Madden NFL 17Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 17 - View All
Member Comments
# 141 howboutdat @ 08/11/16 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatMichiganFan
I'm seeing a lot of complaining, but I want to say thanks to the devs, game changers, and everyone else who made this happen. I was content to wait a year for this, but this makes M17 so much better IMO. Can't wait to come up with some special packages on defense!
Agreed . I to want to thank them all, for making that happen before/at release, when before it wasnt happening at all this madden.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauer4MVP
If the system doesn't allow a very common formation sub then it's not fully done.
Im not sure what your definition of very common.But for my definition, i would hardly call it very common. Sure it happens , but if one took all the plays ran in an NFL season, id bet its less than 5% of plays are done like how some are complaining about not being able to do.

Offline, i agree, let them do what they want.Online, as a commish, personally im glad to see restrictions. The restrictions do not seem to hinder a majority of subs you see in real life , on a very common amount of calls. It may hinder a very tiny amount of calls, that are not called that often in real life either. My money is on , it would work better in madden than real life more often than not.

While i know someone is thinking to type - if you have good owners in league , its not an issue. Then maybe you haven't ran a league year round for 6 years with 32 owners like i have i guess. We keep a large core of owners, 26 this year, brought back a few returning guys, who took time off in summer, and brought in 3 new guys. Those are the ones you have to watch. You want to give people a chance to prove themselves, but you dont want a headache being created by something like this with no limits. There is more than enough for a commish to keep up with as it is.

This was something not originally ready for this madden, that they got in. I thank them for some limits on it for online franchises.
 
# 142 Millennium @ 08/11/16 11:02 AM
The one thing I keep hearing here is "Why are they worried about exploits in CFM?".

Guys remember - we are a very specific niche at OS. A ton of CFMs are randomly created/joined by people with no thoughts to rules/regulations.

Until they can add the CFM Commish controlling aspects of Formation Subs then it is in their best interest for gameplay balance to keep the depth chart restrictions applied to Formation Subs as well.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
# 143 Mauer4MVP @ 08/11/16 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium
we are a very specific niche at OS. A ton of CFMs are randomly created/joined by people with no thoughts to rules/regulations.
That kind of implies that they don't really care that much about those rules/regulations, though. There are exploits in the game right now that without house rules people could be abusing.
 
# 144 Millennium @ 08/11/16 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauer4MVP
That kind of implies that they don't really care that much about those rules/regulations, though. There are exploits in the game right now that without house rules people could be abusing.
It doesn't imply that in any way. And we're not talking about other exploits - we are talking about the implementation of Formation Subs.

When they implemented them they have to take into account that not every league is run by one person and filled by a group of his/her friends. There are a lot of 'lets just play organized' that could potentially cause issues with the game due to the lack of restriction in the depth chart/Form Subs.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
# 145 Culture Rot @ 08/11/16 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium
It doesn't imply that in any way. And we're not talking about other exploits - we are talking about the implementation of Formation Subs.

When they implemented them they have to take into account that not every league is run by one person and filled by a group of his/her friends. There are a lot of 'lets just play organized' that could potentially cause issues with the game due to the lack of restriction in the depth chart/Form Subs.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
So allow them offline, and disable them online, if it's such an issue.
 
# 146 Millennium @ 08/11/16 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlatinoheatx
So allow them offline, and disable them online, if it's such an issue.
That's not the way CFM works. CFM online/offline are supposed to (with the exception of last year being a lack of the XP sliders) one in the same. You can't just implement one without the other at this point.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
# 147 Mauer4MVP @ 08/11/16 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium
It doesn't imply that in any way. And we're not talking about other exploits - we are talking about the implementation of Formation Subs.

When they implemented them they have to take into account that not every league is run by one person and filled by a group of his/her friends. There are a lot of 'lets just play organized' that could potentially cause issues with the game due to the lack of restriction in the depth chart/Form Subs.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
I don't see how it doesn't. If you really cared about those types of "exploits" you wouldn't be joining a random online CFM. You go into a random online CFM with the expectation that not everyone is hardcore or plays sim fooball. All those things are absolutely implied..
It's easy enough to find a serious CFM with some house rules. Not just on here but numerous other blogs, forums, etc.
 
# 148 Millennium @ 08/11/16 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauer4MVP
I don't see how it doesn't. If you really cared about those types of "exploits" you wouldn't be joining a random online CFM. You go into a random online CFM with the expectation that not everyone is hardcore or plays sim fooball. All those things are absolutely implied..
It's easy enough to find a serious CFM with some house rules. Not just on here but numerous other blogs, forums, etc.
So you're telling me that if I want to join a CFM as a random user who doesn't know anything about OS and doesn't have an online presenxe and just wants to play against others I should just be ready for the wild wild west? You can't even make those changes in MUT (yeah, you know the tournament style mode that no one here thinks cares about 'sim') but I should deal with it in CFM?

You are lumping these random CFMs together because you don't participate in them. You need to realize that there are people outside of our user group at OS that care about things and being able to do something you can't even do in MUT could seriously harm the experience.



Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
# 149 Mauer4MVP @ 08/11/16 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium
So you're telling me that if I want to join a CFM as a random user who doesn't know anything about OS and doesn't have an online presenxe and just wants to play against others I should just be ready for the wild wild west? You can't even make those changes in MUT (yeah, you know the tournament style mode that no one here thinks cares about 'sim') but I should deal with it in CFM?

You are lumping these random CFMs together because you don't participate in them. You need to realize that there are people outside of our user group at OS that care about things and being able to do something you can't even do in MUT could seriously harm the experience.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Why WOULDN'T you assume that? Take NBA 2k's team play or even go back to team play on previous Madden's. You go into with the caution that there may be someone that doesn't quite know what they're doing, ball hogging, exploiting stuff, etc.

It's the same thing if you join a random CFM on Madden or any sports game. You should be expecting to have some user that isn't going to play the game the way you want it. If you aren't, that really is your fault. It's so easy to find leagues with some rules.

Just google "join madden 16 cfm" and you'll find all kinds of results. Though, I honestly would recommend those people to come here because the passion of sports games lives here.

We can probably at least agree on that.
 
# 150 Millennium @ 08/11/16 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky60
It could be an if then else check for just the editing of formation subs. I'm not sure why you can't implement something in just offline (or online). Honestly, I don't see making an if check with different conditions for selecting substitute players as that difficult.

I obviously don't know what their code looks like, but for the life of me, I can't see why it would be very difficult. Maybe a Madden developer could shed some light. I would like to hear from a Madden developer directly, because anything that a non Madden developer (like CMHooe) would say would be purely speculation.
But you're not going to get code talk from devs (outside of 'Yes this is possible' 'No it's not') normally because, as most game studios are, they are protective of their code.

Which is (as you said) why we can't speculate on the ease of making this offline/online. What I can say is that it was late enough in the cycle to force it to a patch (which shows just how important it was to them to get any of the functionality in) so I'm certain that the timeline they had for implementation and QA was not much.
 
# 151 Millennium @ 08/11/16 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauer4MVP
Why WOULDN'T you assume that? Take NBA 2k's team play or even go back to team play on previous Madden's. You go into with the caution that there may be someone that doesn't quite know what they're doing, ball hogging, exploiting stuff, etc.

It's the same thing if you join a random CFM on Madden or any sports game. You should be expecting to have some user that isn't going to play the game the way you want it. If you aren't, that really is your fault. It's so easy to find leagues with some rules.

Just google "join madden 16 cfm" and you'll find all kinds of results. Though, I honestly would recommend those people to come here because the passion of sports games lives here.

We can probably at least agree on that.
If I join a random CFM my expectation is that you can do anything within normal gameplay to win (bunting in MLB, "money plays" in Madden/NBA). But I don't expect to see things like Tom Brady playing DT without some type of punishment (see MLB The Show's specific out of position animations). This is why NBA 2K has restrictions on size of players at certain positions (something they were PRAISED for) - they had a ton of issues with 7 foot point guards.

At some point in the future I can see the implementation of lack of restrictions - but this was a last minute add (as seen with the fact that this was a patch) so keeping some semblance of gameplay balance has to be the priority THEN add extra pieces once you know the feature you have added works.

I agree with you that I would absolutely send people here for a more sim experience, but I also acknowledge that there are many people that don't even know we are a thing.
 
# 152 djp73 @ 08/11/16 12:32 PM
i have recently decided to use the cardinals this season and this will be great for my front 7!!
 
# 153 Millennium @ 08/11/16 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky60
I'm not looking for them to give me code snippets, just reasoning on why it would or would not be difficult. And if there are technical limitations on why it might be difficult.

They did do this late in this cycle. And it did leave a tight schedule for testing. I'm not arguing that at all. Just saying that with all my experience, in my mind, I can see how I would do it. And that I believe it should be very possible.

I'm not criticizing that they didn't do it for this patch. Just saying I believe it could be a very possible thing to do and reasonable to ask for. Any criticism I have over formation subs isn't with them adding it in this first patch, it would be with the company itself for taking a decade to add back (saving of formation subs) something that is so important to team/roster management in a CFM (and probably to MUT as well).
I should also state that it is a feature that I want to see in the future (I think everyone commenting here wants to see more options at all times) as long as it can be controlled by a commissioner. The Game Changer responsible (yes, as much as you guys rag on them a GAME CHANGER was responsible for coordinating the community efforts to get this in the game) has stated already that he wants more commissioner control in CFM (search #CFMMovement on Twitter and you'll see plenty of discussion on it) and this was one of the things discussed.

One last thing is dev interaction - I think we get a bit spoiled at times at just how accessible this team is. They're accessible to make the game better, but I'd never expect them to explain their design choices or the abilities they have/don't have. RG has stated on Twitter that he is looking into the restrictions and I believe we should be satisfied with that acknowledgement.
 
# 154 bigboyc @ 08/11/16 02:23 PM
WR at HB? Name 2 - WRs that get 20 carries a season in the NFL. There are formations in the game already where a WR lines up at HB.....to go out into a route, use that if you want. Otherwise, some people want to cheese by having a 97 speed WR in the backfield. Same goes for Safety at LB. Use the sub formations where this occurs. NO safety in the league plays the majority of their time at a LB position. More cheese....people wanting to put 90 speed safeties close to the line of scrimmage for blitzing and contain purposes. Again...use the sub packages.
 
# 155 bigboyc @ 08/11/16 02:24 PM
BTW...JJ Watt played very little TE last season vs 2014. He won't play ANY TE this season....coming off a back injury.
 
# 156 mvb34 @ 08/11/16 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboyc
WR at HB? Name 2 - WRs that get 20 carries a season in the NFL. There are formations in the game already where a WR lines up at HB.....to go out into a route, use that if you want. Otherwise, some people want to cheese by having a 97 speed WR in the backfield. Same goes for Safety at LB. Use the sub formations where this occurs. NO safety in the league plays the majority of their time at a LB position. More cheese....people wanting to put 90 speed safeties close to the line of scrimmage for blitzing and contain purposes. Again...use the sub packages.
A lot defense schemes employ a "Joker" type player that they line up everywhere..
 
# 157 Millennium @ 08/11/16 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvb34
A lot defense schemes employ a "Joker" type player that they line up everywhere..

I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am) but isn't the Joker normally in on Dime-type packages? If that is the case I believe Madden has a specific package that represents this.
 
# 158 howboutdat @ 08/11/16 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboyc
WR at HB? Name 2 - WRs that get 20 carries a season in the NFL. There are formations in the game already where a WR lines up at HB.....to go out into a route, use that if you want. Otherwise, some people want to cheese by having a 97 speed WR in the backfield. Same goes for Safety at LB. Use the sub formations where this occurs. NO safety in the league plays the majority of their time at a LB position. More cheese....people wanting to put 90 speed safeties close to the line of scrimmage for blitzing and contain purposes. Again...use the sub packages.

Thank you ....
 
# 159 goillini03 @ 08/11/16 04:37 PM
Only one WR had more than 20 carries last year from what I could find. But there were at least 6 wr's with at least 10 rushing attempts.
 
# 160 jeremym480 @ 08/11/16 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlatinoheatx
So allow them offline, and disable them online, if it's such an issue.
If you really wanted to you could work around some of these for offline. Someone correct me if I'm wrong my RB's can play WR's, but WR can't play RB, so just change the WR that you want to play some at RB to RB, then edit their ratings back up.

I know someone will probably hit me with the "well, we shouldn't have to do that" line, and maybe we shouldn't. However, defenses are already at a big enough disadvantage and until we get more tools to matchup against the offense's personnel, then I'm perfectly fine with these restrictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium
I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am) but isn't the Joker normally in on Dime-type packages? If that is the case I believe Madden has a specific package that represents this.
Yes, there is a Dime package where that has safety's at linebacker. I'll occasionally lineup safety's as my NB in Nickle formations to get some extra run support in run/pass situations. It's not exactly the same, but at least it gives me some extra speed over a LB and extra bulk over a CB in the box.
 


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