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Madden NFL 17 News Post

The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

  04:37 PM - August 9, 2016 by Steve_OS

Madden NFL 17 Associate Game Designer, Ryan "RG" Glick and the Madden team have sent us this exclusive blog covering the return of formation subs. Make sure to read it and post your thoughts.

Game: Madden NFL 17Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 17 - View All
Member Comments
# 101 roadman @ 08/10/16 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdm27
I don't know why you would frame your post this way when I made no mention in my post as to how I feel about the feature. I went as far saying it is a matter of faith on the devs, but never said anything about whether I trust them or not.

But to answer the question, I only judge based on the current dev team, not previous ones, and I am very encouraged by their approach. However, one does not need to be a skeptic to see how can formation subs ultimately not be touched further for a while.

By now we know that there a bigger underlying problems as to why the feature is not implemented properly (exploits and depth chart limitations), one would assume EA works constantly on eliminating exploits and defensive assignments would go a long way towards this but they've also been very specific about how many resources that feature would take so you can see how proper form subs might end up being pushed to M19, no?

Also, the fact that "something is better than nothing" is also an easy crutch to rely upon when prioritizing future features; to give you an example:
Q: Why weren't contracts/player management overhauled if this was the deepest CFM ever?
A: We focused on other aspects, ran out of time and With full player editing you can modify contracts as you see fit (this has been a GOTO answer for many CFM questions this year)

Now we have no certainty that this answer will change for M18 because they might feel that a tool (granted, too basic) is already there to solve that problem, thus making it possible for them to focus on other areas.

In addition, a not fully fleshed formation subs feature, which needs more work for a M17 patch or M18 would also likely affect how many resources they might have to focus on the custom packages side of the equation.

But since the fact is we don't know one way or another, we might as well take the inclusion of "basic" formation subs as a W and hope for the best
Agree. It's better to have a full feature vs anything at all.
 
# 102 Black Bruce Wayne @ 08/10/16 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedGreen710
anyone just checking in who wants to know why some people are disappointed:

- there is restriction to which positions can be subbed where
- cannot put JJ Watt at tight end, cannot put WR at HB, SS at OLB, etc
- no formation subs for kickoff formations

anything I missed?
putting DBS at linebacker is definitely a exploit.
 
# 103 jeremym480 @ 08/10/16 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDAlum
Kickoff & kickoff return were a really big part of why I wanted this feature. Good to hear it will be addressed. Another year of starters on KO's...



With that said...I will still use the heck out of it on O/D.
Same here. Kickoffs and kick returns were by far the main reason I wanted formation subs. Everything else I want to do (getting 3rd/4th HB some carries, getting pass rushers on the field in obvious passing situations, Safety occasionally at NB in run/pass situations, etc.) I can do fairly quickly with the on the fly subs or the in-game sub feature. And most of those are just situational rather than something that I always want to do.

I'm certainly glad that the devs listened and put for the effort to do what they've done. However, in order to truly get this to where I want it to be I really need subs for the kickoff teams. Having those will truly bring roster building to another level because you could keep players around or draft/sign players who you think would be "special teams aces". Without having control of who's on kickoff teams, then that kind of goes out the window.
 
# 104 NDAlum @ 08/10/16 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bruce Wayne
putting DBS at linebacker is definitely a exploit.
Let's please steer clear of this conversation because there will be a real life side to this convo and a video game side.

For example in your example it's easy to say it shouldn't be an exploit if the game were properly made.

No exploit convo. Thanks.
 
# 105 Culture Rot @ 08/10/16 10:43 AM
Take off the restrictions off of us. Remove the cuffs EA Sports, PLEASE!
 
# 106 mrprice33 @ 08/10/16 10:53 AM
So I got my answer. The form subs get erased when you switch to a new playbook in the coach schemes menu. So if you are using a custom playbook you will want to first find a coach's playbook that is as close as possible on the formation side. You'd be able to add in as many plays as you want to those formations and they'll stick, but any formations not included in the coach playbook will not be able to have Form Subs attached.
 
# 107 jeremym480 @ 08/10/16 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrprice33
So I got my answer. The form subs get erased when you switch to a new playbook in the coach schemes menu. So if you are using a custom playbook you will want to first find a coach's playbook that is as close as possible on the formation side. You'd be able to add in as many plays as you want to those formations and they'll stick, but any formations not included in the coach playbook will not be able to have Form Subs attached.
Do you know if using these new formation subs will mess up the "on the fly subs" similar to how in-game formations subs did in the past?
 
# 108 mrprice33 @ 08/10/16 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremym480
Do you know if using these new formation subs will mess up the "on the fly subs" similar to how in-game formations subs did in the past?
No idea....
 
# 109 Steve_Montana @ 08/10/16 12:02 PM
Great (re)addition. However with the rise of "tweeners", safeties who play cornerback, safety and linebacker(bucannon of the cardinals is an example), why the exclusion of the ability to play safeties at linebacker?
 
# 110 BadAssHskr @ 08/10/16 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrprice33
So I got my answer. The form subs get erased when you switch to a new playbook in the coach schemes menu. So if you are using a custom playbook you will want to first find a coach's playbook that is as close as possible on the formation side. You'd be able to add in as many plays as you want to those formations and they'll stick, but any formations not included in the coach playbook will not be able to have Form Subs attached.

Thanks for finding that out. Just to be clear, that will eliminate using the "generic" playbooks, such as "Run N Gun", etc, or will the rules stated apply to them as well?


***
Anyhow, this is outstanding of EA to give us, they've really gotten their stuff together these past years with everything they've done for M16, and jumping out early being awesome with M17.

I don't always go to as great as depth with my subs as some of you, but there are obvious moves i like to make in situations, and formations, and this will allow that.
 
# 111 Hooe @ 08/10/16 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky60
But it is not silly to hold a company accountable for past decisions.
The people who made that decision have been gone for years. Holding the current dev team accountable for a decision made literally a decade ago by completely different people feels a little misplaced to me? It feels like one is looking for a reason to get angry about the thing.
Quote:
The guy was right, being able to save formation subs should not have been removed
Again, the current team was responsible for this decision, how? It's been a decade since Madden 06. That's an eternity in software development. You with your career experience must know this.
Quote:
and it should not have taken anywhere near this long to add back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky60
I've been in software development for over 35 years. I know how coding works. It should not have taken anywhere near this long.
Fine, but you misunderstand, however, how video game development and video game project management works.

It was never a coding issue. That formation subs didn't get back into the game sooner is rather a consequence of reasonable project management decisions in the realm of creative video game design on an aggressive deadline.

The problem was never "the code monkeys are inept and can't do it". The problem was always "we have a zillion other things to do this cycle to deliver a shippable game, and formation subs doesn't add enough total value to the most users of our creative product to fit on our very aggressive development relative to other features we are making, so we have to cut it to focus our limited resources on those other things". The only difference is that formation subs survived feature cuts this time around. That's it.

Sometimes when you're making a video game on a deadline you have to make tough decisions. If you've ever worked on a software project or creative endeavor with a tight deadline, you can surely relate.
Quote:
I am very glad that saving formation subs is back.
On this we are agreed.
 
# 112 SolidSquid @ 08/10/16 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bruce Wayne
putting DBS at linebacker is definitely a exploit.
Putting your number one wr in the slot is also an exploit since there's no defensive match ups
 
# 113 ThatMichiganFan @ 08/10/16 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSquid
Putting your number one wr in the slot is also an exploit since there's no defensive match ups
True, but you can easily package your #1 CB into the slot in most formations, so it can be countered. That being said, defensive adjustments would make this a heck of a lot easier, but I'm not complaining. I'm just pumped and ready for M17!
 
# 114 SolidSquid @ 08/10/16 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
You can absolutely use auto-subs in online franchise. In fact that was specifically fixed this year so that they worked.
Ok I must have misread someone on here saying there weren't in online chise
 
# 115 SolidSquid @ 08/10/16 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatMichiganFan
True, but you can easily package your #1 CB into the slot in most formations, so it can be countered. That being said, defensive adjustments would make this a heck of a lot easier, but I'm not complaining. I'm just pumped and ready for M17!
Yea but I'm just saying we won't know where the number will line up until he lines up, and at that point it's too late to match up your number one with him.
 
# 116 ThatMichiganFan @ 08/10/16 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSquid
Yea but I'm just saying we won't know where the number will line up until he lines up, and at that point it's too late to match up your number one with him.
Yes you are definitely right. Its more of a reaction to it rather than a counter but its the best we have for now.
 
# 117 Eccentric78 @ 08/10/16 04:41 PM
As happy as I am that this feature is back, it's unfortunately they brought this back without bringing defensive assignments back.

Now you can move around the #1 wide receiver a lot easier and the defense can't even have a corner follow him automatically.

Maybe next year.
 
# 118 Et__225 @ 08/10/16 04:50 PM
They need to bring back that ncaa football game crowd.. In big games like you going playin in the Seattle Seahawks stadium or the Chiefs the crowd should be loud loud that make the screen kinda shake or playoff games and late dome games. I hope they try to put it in madden 17 some kind of way. Please do that. Make the game more live!!!!!!!
 
# 119 RandallB21 @ 08/10/16 05:09 PM
What I am worried about is exploiting the defense that can't matchup correctly. Now I may have missed something but I hope defensive matchups is also in. Meaning I can shadow your #1 WR with my #1 QB where ever he is lined up. Love the fact that it is back though, even though it is a limited version.
 
# 120 MoneyOvaHuds @ 08/10/16 05:17 PM
 


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