Madden NFL 13 News Post

Madden NFL 13 Roster Editing Issue Rears Its Ugly Head

07:31 PM - June 11, 2012 by Steve_OS

While most of the Madden NFL 13 news out of E3 seems to be positive, we now have something that could turn into a very big issue. Especially if you enjoy roster editing or use edited rosters created by others.

There seemed to be some confusion about edited rosters. More specifically, if edited rosters could be used in Connected Careers Mode.

I sent a few messages to Justin Dewiel, Community Manager at EA Sports earlier this afternoon and received the following responses.

Quote:


	You can edit rosters outside of CC. But you can�t bring them into CC. If you start a new CCM career after one of Donny Moore�s releases you can start with that new roster.

Basically, we have to rely on Donny Moore's roster updates, throughout the season, instead of grabbing updated rosters from the many talented roster editors out there, or simply editing on our own.

Jean Adams, Art Director for Madden NFL 13, mentioned the following, in his presentation blog, which was posted in late April.

Quote:


	Mixing and matching the new NIKE uniforms, cleats, face masks, sleeves and other yet to be released gear will keep me and many gamers out there in edit player for hours.

Hmmm. I somehow doubt many gamers will be playing around much in edit player, if we can't use the edits in anything other than a Play Now session.

Josh Looman, Madden NFL 13 Senior Designer mentioned on Twitter the following glimmer of hope.

Quote:


	We just ran out of time. It will be in there at some point in the future.

Does he mean Madden NFL 14 or could the Madden NFL 13 team add the editing ability in a Title Update or fix the issue before its August 28th release date? I think I speak for everyone, when I say the sooner, the better.

Game: Madden NFL 13Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments

# 881 DeuceDouglas @ 06/22/12 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNMHIII


	Roger that.....If they're not affected they probably don't understand though and when they defend EA its frustrating for some people. For example; I wouldn't expect someone that does play now by themselves at home or an online guy that only likes to jump on and play against friends/randoms to understand why people would be upset about custom playebooks and editing not being available because both those users don't use the game the same way others do. Removing the features they've removed was a major screw up, but I'm talking about other things outside of even 13 where people defend EA for stuff like KISS shoulder pads on NCAA imported players for example. I'm not saying everyone should agree, I'm just surprised at how much support EA gets from some people even when they drop the ball.

A lot of people really don't understand but at the same time I think a lot of people do. I wouldn't say I'm greatly affected by the removal of the features but it's not because I didn't use or love them. It's just that with everything else I've seen it's done a great job making what could be a major disappointment seemingly non-existent. Some people feel the exact opposite.

I don't defend the removal of features and I don't really see a reason why anybody would. The main things I defend is when things get taken to the absolute extreme and are greatly exaggerated to try and make a point. And I'm not talking about the issue itself. You can't exaggerate 111 pages and countless posts in other threads. I'm talking about the claims of QB's wearing numbers in the 40's and looking like offensive linemen, punters looking like defensive tackles, etc.

# 882 DeuceDouglas @ 06/22/12 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucs34236


	if 2k had the nfl license madden would be like the nba live series.

Just when I thought we were getting back on track.

# 883 Pared @ 06/22/12 06:39 PM

We ARE getting back on track.

# 884 raguel @ 06/22/12 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	We ARE* getting back on track.*

I believe that's true. Improvements just seem so slow and [pc]subobtimal[/pc].

# 885 kehlis @ 06/22/12 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	Yep you can. But not in Madden this year... It is what it is. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Right, that was the point of his post though.

No one ever refuted the fact that ratings in every game are someone elses opinion so I don't understand the point in even bringing that up.

# 886 DNMHIII @ 06/22/12 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	For the record.... All ratings in every sports game are someone's opinion. Opinions based on hard data and variables. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

I understand that, it doesn't mean that we have go agree with them especially when they get tweaked to manipulate the OVR rating and also the teams OVR.

I couldn't care less what Donny Moore thinks the 49er roster should be and having the option to tweak the attributes to better represent the players on the roster was great because I wasn't at the mercy of his opinion. With CCM, and its current limitations, everyone is at the mercy of one person and I think that straight up sucks.

# 887 roadman @ 06/22/12 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNMHIII


	I understand that, it doesn't mean that we have go agree with them especially when they get tweaked to manipulate the OVR rating and also the teams OVR. I couldn't care less what Donny Moore thinks the 49er roster should be and having the option to tweak the attributes to better represent the players on the roster was great because I wasn't at the mercy of his opinion. With CCM, and its current limitations, everyone is at the mercy of one person and I think that straight up sucks.

A few things.

1) The person could be Joe Ratings person, the person will still be praised and criticized from all players alike.

2) The OL ratings were complied by Clint Oldenberg, former NFL OL. He should help out in that area.

PS-Understand about not being able to play around or edit the ratings this year. That is a tough nut to crack.

# 888 DNMHIII @ 06/22/12 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	A few things. 1) The person could be Joe Ratings person, the person will still be praised and criticized from all players alike. 2) The OL ratings were complied by Clint Oldenberg, former NFL OL. He should help out in that area. PS-Understand about not being able to play around or edit the ratings this year. That is a tough nut to crack.

Oh totally....it has nothing to do with Donny Moore at all because it could be anybody and someone has to put their name on it. The biggest issue that I've had with ratings is that they're manipulated to keep players and teams OVR in check and that messes stuff up IMO. I really appreciate the effort last year to put editing in franchise because it made my opinion on ratings important and relative, without that ability I'm at the mercy of whoever.

I'm a peacock and you gotta let me fly.......lol

# 889 briz1744 @ 06/22/12 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	For the record.... All ratings in every sports game are someone's opinion. Opinions based on hard data and variables. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

The ratings may be researched and hard data used in their implementation but are ultimately no more than an opinion , even speed isn't calculated from strictly hard data bu using 40 times and then adjusting for 'game speed'. A fairly arbitary and subjective concept
This is not to criticize donny moore just to point out that ratings in madden are calculated more as an art form than by hard science and thus peoples opinions will always vary
And all this before we get unto the subject of how individual attributes are massaged to fit in with a pre- conceived idea of the value of a particular players overall rating

# 890 pinksheets @ 06/23/12 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	Yep you can. But not in Madden this year... It is what it is. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Well it'd be great to see his process. This is the exact type of thing that would benefit from peer review. My problem is that some players just are clearly not researched, and other ratings are arbitrarily increased to bring up a player's overall or brought down for nonsense reasons (why would a player's ratings drop because a team released them? or why would Russel Okung drop in ratings and down to a B potential just because he got a torn pec from a dead ball cheap shot by Trent Cole?)

I just don't get that there's a method to this madness, just madness outright.

# 891 LionsFanNJ @ 06/23/12 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comen


	So we cant edit rosters n play a season? Or update rosters ourselves?

# 892 Purple28Pedestrian @ 06/24/12 07:55 AM

Can anyone with experience playing M13 tell me what sort of ratings we're looking at, broad spectrum.

Is it similar to the last few titles with several players over 95 and many over 90 or is there some sort of scaling back going on here?

I refuse to believe that barry sanders, randy moss, primetime, jerry rice will be 99 [granted they are LEGENDS] but on the flip side so will AP, Calvin Johnson, Revis etc.

These current players should not even sniff 99 at this stage in their careers, this essentially nullifies the Legend status, they are just another super good player....not a legend.

randy moss, 99 speed, 99 catch, sophmore year with some XP boosts i could probably get calvin Johnson up there too.

# 893 kbusch22 @ 06/24/12 02:40 PM

Not being able to edit player numbers is the only thing that REALLY bothers me. Every year I end up with practically my entire rookie class being given retired numbers and every year I need to edit it. It's sacrilege to see another Giants LB wear #56, for instance.

# 894 briz1744 @ 06/24/12 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbusch22


	Not being able to edit player numbers is the only thing that REALLY bothers me. Every year I end up with practically my entire rookie class being given retired numbers and every year I need to edit it. It's sacrilege to see another Giants LB wear #56, for instance.

I agree about the numbers thing and could live with no rating edits in mode like before but not to allow roster editing before entering the mode is what really gets me as that means no CAPs and having no position changes is absurd

# 895 KingV2k3 @ 06/24/12 10:35 PM

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but:

It just occurred to me that because we can't edit before franchise, the fake FAs (EA Employees and Make A Wish kids, etc) and retired (overrated) FAs will be impossible to keep out of the game...

This now marks a new "Third Level" of UGH for me...

Madden has been my favorite and most time intensive hobby for over a decade...

It's like telling a golfer:

"You can still play golf, but only one one course, "closest to the hole" wins, AND we'll be choosing your club for each individual shot from now on"...

Ridiculous...

# 896 DeuceDouglas @ 06/24/12 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingV2k3


	Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but: It just occurred to me that because we can't edit before franchise, the fake FAs (EA Employees and Make A Wish kids, etc) and retired (overrated) FAs will be impossible to keep out of the game... This now marks a new "Third Level" of UGH for me... Madden has been my favorite and most time intensive hobby for over a decade... It's like telling a golfer: "You can still play golf, but only one one course, "closest to the hole" wins, AND we'll be choosing your club for each individual shot from now on"... Ridiculous...

This didn't happen last year, I don't know why it would this year. At least as far as the employees and Make-A-Wish ones are concerned. As for the Free Agents that are retired, there is a point where they stop editing roster's and they can't predict the future so there's not much they can do about that.

# 897 KingV2k3 @ 06/25/12 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas


	This didn't happen last year, I don't know why it would this year. At least as far as the employees and Make-A-Wish ones are concerned. As for the Free Agents that are retired, there is a point where they stop editing roster's and they can't predict the future so there's not much they can do about that.

I disagree.

In my initial test franchise last season with EA's opening day rosters, both Robert You and the EA female QB (forgot her name) got picked up by CPU controlled teams...

Secondly, I didn't mean FA that will eventually retire...

I'm afraid you're going to see "classic players" (Jerry Rice, for example) in the FA pool that may be very attractive signings to CPU controlled teams...

In ANY of the above, an easy workaround has been removed and we are forced to accept the developers level of "sim", as opposed to the users...

Furthermore, the ability to edit P. Manning (for example) was the only way to keep it "real" for 2011...

To each his own...I guess it's a "wait and see", but this does not look promising to this guy...

# 898 gamerk2 @ 06/25/12 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	This is one of my personal Madden crusades, so I felt compelled to comment. Every NFL player has hard unbiased numbers/data that can be used, in a standard formula, to create player ratings in Madden. If that was done, the only thing subjective would be the parameters of the standard formula, not the ratings themselves, which is potentially less controversial and easier to acquire a consensus around. None of the ratings in Madden should be subjective, they should all be calculated using agreed on universal formula(s) and data. So if Donny Moore and the ratings "team" decide that AWR should be based on the Wonderlic Test and a players number of years in the NFL, converted into a 0-100 scale rating for every single player, AWR is no longer subjective. Maybe this kind of stuff happens in every sports game but I am a NFL gamer primarily so Madden is the only one I care about enough to notice. It seems to me like EA/Tiburon is rife with departments intent on making creating a NFL football game harder than it has to be from marketing, to R&D, to ratings. I am sure there are enough challenges to sports game development without these departments needing to make themselves overly relevant. R&D-find ways to copy NFL football in Madden, marketing-sell the NFL football in Madden and ratings-create base formula(s) to input NFL football player data to achieve a universal scale. /rant

But thats NOT how its done. Look at all the rage post roster updates: People look at the OVR rankings, and thats it. EA fits each individual rating in such a way that the OVR makes sense, so you ocassionally end up with a 330 pound lineman with 65 strength.

APF 2k8 had the right idea: Player attributes. What makes a player better then the average? Do we REALLY care if SPD is an 87 or 88? Does it make a difference in gameplay?

Give me positive and negative attributes, and you can easily get rid of the rating system, and make is easy to see what players do better, or worse, then the average NFL player.

# 899 bichettehappens @ 06/25/12 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	This is one of my personal Madden crusades, so I felt compelled to comment. Every NFL player has hard unbiased numbers/data that can be used, in a standard formula, to create player ratings in Madden. If that was done, the only thing subjective would be the parameters of the standard formula, not the ratings themselves, which is potentially less controversial and easier to acquire a consensus around. None of the ratings in Madden should be subjective, they should all be calculated using agreed on universal formula(s) and data. So if Donny Moore and the ratings "team" decide that AWR should be based on the Wonderlic Test and a players number of years in the NFL, converted into a 0-100 scale rating for every single player, AWR is no longer subjective. Maybe this kind of stuff happens in every sports game but I am a NFL gamer primarily so Madden is the only one I care about enough to notice. It seems to me like EA/Tiburon is rife with departments intent on making creating a NFL football game harder than it has to be from marketing, to R&D, to ratings. I am sure there are enough challenges to sports game development without these departments needing to make themselves overly relevant. R&D-find ways to copy NFL football in Madden, marketing-sell the NFL football in Madden and ratings-create base formula(s) to input NFL football player data to achieve a universal scale. /rant

I disagree completely. To speak specifically to your example of awareness tied to Wonderlic score... As Mr. Claiborne pointed out, the Wonderlic has no questions about football. Furthermore, awareness in a football/Madden sense is not necessarily at all related to "test-based" intelligence.

Other examples, there are no formulaic ways to "calculate" a person's Run block footwork vs their pass block footwork. Same goes for something like route running. Sure, certain ratings like speed and strength, short/med/long pass accuracy and so on could be tied to different figures, statistics, and measurables, but there still are plenty of attributes that can't be any more accurately defined by formulas. At a certain point, they have to base it off film, scouting reports, and the like.

Honestly, a majority (not all, but most seem to be regarding players who play for the team represented in that member's avatar) of the rating complaints that I've seen on this very forum appear to come from a state of bias... By that I mean "so and so on my favorite team DEFINITELY is faster than whatshisface on rival team!" I mean it's similar logic to what is seen in the team overall ratings threads every year.

Now with all that being said, I don't feel that Donny's ratings should be the end all be all, but moral of this post is that I don't think trying to create tangible formulas for every attribute would make things any more accurate or realistic

# 900 DeuceDouglas @ 06/25/12 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingV2k3


	I disagree. In my initial test franchise last season with EA's opening day rosters, both Robert You and the EA female QB (forgot her name) got picked up by CPU controlled teams... Secondly, I didn't mean FA that will eventually retire... I'm afraid you're going to see "classic players" (Jerry Rice, for example) in the FA pool that may be very attractive signings to CPU controlled teams... In ANY of the above, an easy workaround has been removed and we are forced to accept the developers level of "sim", as opposed to the users... Furthermore, the ability to edit P. Manning (for example) was the only way to keep it "real" for 2011... To each his own...I guess it's a "wait and see", but this does not look promising to this guy...

I never saw any of them in the three franchises I played so I don't what difference you may have had to cause it. As for the legends, they've stated multiple times that you can turn them off and they won't appear as free agents in your franchise.

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