NBA 2K12 News Post

NBA 2K12 Developer Insight #9 - Defense

02:14 PM - September 16, 2011 by mreyes930

Check out the new NBA 2K12 Developer Insight #9, as Jerson Sapida talks about the defensive side of the ball.

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# 101 STLRams @ 09/16/11 04:57 PM

Damn, Im loving all the defensive additions to this game. NBA2K12 is going to be crazy. This maybe the first year were I will try to play online more. I usually just stick to offline because of the cheesing and cheating and how some things were to unbalanced. 2K is looking to correct all of your fears fellas, talk about raising the bar... good job 2K Sports.

# 102 SaC_KiNg09 @ 09/16/11 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by made in eu


	Will you get "penalized" if you play off the ball defense against cpu or only against human player? If it is the second ok but against the cpu we should play defense any way we want without getting "penalized".

I believe one person made a great analogy earlier about extra credit applied to a school project, there is no penalty for playing off ball defense, but there is an incentive to play the man with the ball.

You can feel free to not play on-ball and you want be penalized but if you do play on ball there is a slight treat.

# 103 BezO @ 09/16/11 04:59 PM

These 2K cats are serious with theirs!

# 104 TheKasmar @ 09/16/11 05:06 PM

The off-ball crying and overeactions are almost as good as the insight. Time to play some on-ball D. I'd imagine, if I'm trying to play on-ball D with Steve Nash, I will still get lit up against a good offensive player no matter how good I contest because of his ratings. Us on-ball defenders wont be getting any magic contests. Some of you off-ball defenders will be getting lit up regardless because you'll be too busy spectating like you have done in 2k forever.

# 105 Knickerbocker @ 09/16/11 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaanyr Vhok

So you think you stop that by camping the paint? I've always played on ball D
online and my oponnent never managed to have a shot chart like that.

# 106 kolanji @ 09/16/11 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	This won't work due to the new controls. And it shouldn't be automatic - you have to account for people of all skill levels. The problem is the "hands up" part is also automatic, based on vicinity to the shooter. It should be user controlled if they flick to the defender with the RS after they begin their shot. It makes sense the tight defense is automatic, but not if you are closing in on a shooter - you have run with your hands up to have it trigger. More involvement by the user - my entire point. It's EVERYWHERE this year... except this one little area.

i think ur missing the point a bit....what i gather from it is that u would get the auto contest but this is without jumping, just arms up..this will yield no block shots or even an attempt...maybe a little less of a percentage on hit/make.but i mean c'mon besides being wide open how many shots go up without a defender putting his hand up if he is that close?i mean kobe bryant shoots over defenders outstretch arms all the time and even with some (bruce bowen/jr smith) trying to cover his eyes....that gives me my first idea for nba 2k13....add hand in the face D Mike Wang aka beluba

# 107 fatleg3 @ 09/16/11 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goffs


	The only part I didn't like reading was that playing on ball defense is a must now as it will effect the offense shot. YES! I PLAY OFF BALL D! I like playing as the center because I just like going for the blocks... Need the demo to get the feel on how well the movement is for the defense...

Yes im the same way. I like playing off ball with d12

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmitty


	I see what pared is saying, it would be nice if it was more about anticipation and quick reaction than just holding down LT or hands up whenever ur in the paint. Alteast have more of a risk/reward depending on how u time it...def on the right track tho, love what theyve shown us so far. For example the wrap up foul- players like D howard and Lebron r strong enough to finish even when u try to wrap them up. So the wrap up animation shouldnt be the end all be all. Im just tired of seeing the beginning of an animation and already knowing wut the outcome will be. Maybe thats wut they mean by more branching. Either way Im looking forward to the game.

I agree. Some animations disable user controls for example in 2k11 when someone is fouled making a layup or in the paint, all the players are dead, and it wont let me jump up and block the shot even though the shot is blockable. Like you said on thing like the wrap up foul, hopefully it will let you finish the play if you have someone like tony parker trying to wrap up lebron.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts18


	Nobody said that there is a PENALTY. There is just an INCENTIVE for the user. Example: Teacher gives a test with 10 problems + 5 bonus problems. Teacher says, "Extra credit given to those that do all 15." That isn't the same as saying, "Negative marks will be given to those that don't do all 15." Meaning if you do just 10, you are fine. No deductions.

However you want to put it, there shouldnt be no penalty/bonus or whatever at all. I play both onball d and offball. I like playing offball d because it is fun to playing d with d12. I dont camp in the paint, or do anything cheese with him. He is my favorite player and i simply like playing with him on d. Why do i have to be at a disadvantage because thats what i like to do. And yes it is a disadvantage. No matter how you put it. If the shot % went up .01%, you would still have an advantage playing onball d.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts18


	Because if we wanted to play the CPU we would do that. Nothing beats the joy of two users going head to head. You guarding Rose the entire game and not whoever is the ball handler is not going mano y mano. Not sure why you all are having a hard time grasping that idea.

What you are trying to argue is playing styles. Some people prefer to play on way some dont. Its not cheese if done the right way so whats the problem. What may be fun to you may not be to the next person and vise versa. What if some people like the ratings to play out and be the determining factor with a defender guarding the ball handler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaC_KiNg09


	Amen!!!! This is probably one of if not the best implementation to the game I have heard so far. If you are playing a match against another user, stick the guy who has the ball. Its just more fun when you know that you have crossed over the person guarding you and its because you actually faked him out. Much more satisfying. They stated in the article that you can still play off-ball and you are penalized for doing so, just more of a reward when you do actually man up and stick the man with the ball. Camping in the post with a big while the other user has the ball at the top of the key in my opinion is a little cheesy, but to each his own. 2k is now rewarding those who play "mano y mano" and thats great to hear. You know we got a great game in store for us when there is so much discussion on topics such as these. CANT WAIT!!!!!!! (In my Bart Scott voice)

What about the people who dont camp and play legit off ball defense? 2k is giving an advantage to onball d because they think it is more fun the play onball. But once again what is fun to one person may not be fun to another.

Now what i would have no problem with them doing is if you are playing offball and not away from you man for a certain amount of time then penalize you.

# 108 clipperfan811 @ 09/16/11 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaanyr Vhok


	Maybe I'm reading it wrong but to me it sounds like the only thing that isnt manual are the contest that arent in intense defense mode so that means you can put your hands up without a contest. You can also manually jump so the only thing that is automated is a non-jumping shot contest that you initiate. How else can you read it? And if that is the case what else can they do? The only thing that is automated is the move from two hands being stright up to something like this which you trigger. Works for me. Maybe in the fuure you might be able to map something like this to analog sticks. For now this is a major net gain in control and options on D

If these minimal type contest animations are all that result I'm 100% fine with it. If however an auto-contest resulting from a hands up input makes me lunge and lose my balance, therefore allowing a pumpfake to put me out of position, that's where I would recommend system tweaking.

The other implementation I'd be semi-ok with is if defensive awareness ratings have an impact on how out of position an auto-contest forces you. I could deal with that just like you have to deal with a poor shooter missing shots regardless of how perfect your release timing is.

# 109 kolanji @ 09/16/11 05:38 PM

i just when back and looked at the video of Clippers vs Celtics and u can clearly see the hand up on shooters...and it looks fine and realistic, it even shows that it can be late and not as impact full with all the moves available on offense like the step back that Paul Pierce did to get some space t get off his jumper at video count 1:26 then as early again at 2:02 when Allen comes off a Pierce screen for a jumper that gordon put his arm up for an in the face jump shot made....as mentioned in the defense insight balance and as somebody that takes a lot of pride in defense it is welcoming to me

PS manual isnt always the best option to get all things done and make it work as smoothly and effective....next thing we r gonna be asked to manually bounce that ball by hitting a button each time...dont knock something until u try it is what i believe

# 110 rockchisler @ 09/16/11 05:40 PM

Hard / Wrap Foul

A new defensive move added this year now allows you to wrap up your man to prevent an easy bucket. By clicking the RSTICK, your defender will go into a wrap foul animation. If the shooter is in vicinity for the foul, he will get wrapped up and be sent to the line. You can use this new mechanic in times where you find yourself mismatched in the post and got beat to the basket. As an example, you can send Dwight Howard to the line instead of giving up an easy dunk by wrapping him up during the shot.

OMG!!!!! I ASKED ABOUT THIS AWHILE BACK, clicking the r-stick for a hard foul and they added it...2k...will you marry me???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????

# 111 rockchisler @ 09/16/11 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infam0us


	Love the addition of Screen and Hedge when setting up your defense, great job by 2k. I also like that they are encouraging people to play on ball defense. News just keeps on getting better and better.

Absolutely love this, but a minor problem has now occured, when you set this up at the beginning of the game, we still have the dreaded "Wait till dude sets up his plays before you do" If we are allowed to set up our settings at the same time. This will speed up gameplay..

# 112 Yeah...THAT Guy @ 09/16/11 05:46 PM

Not sure if this has been addressed, but I assume that if you're playing defense with the hands up thing, that it makes you more vulnerable to get beaten by dribble penetration so that people can't just sit there with their hands up the entire game and make your shooting percentage much lower?

# 113 Kaanyr Vhok @ 09/16/11 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickerbocker


	So you think you stop that by camping the paint? I've always played on ball D online and my oponnent never managed to have a shot chart like that.

I never said that. It depends on how they are scoring. Pure camping rarely works unless you are playing aginst someone who takes it right at a shot blocker. When I play offball its usally to steal lead passes or discourage people from driving then I switch back to the ball because this isnt new. The CPU didnt contest shooters well in 2k11 or 10.

# 114 SaC_KiNg09 @ 09/16/11 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatleg3


	What about the people who dont camp and play legit off ball defense? 2k is giving an advantage to onball d because they think it is more fun the play onball. But once again what is fun to one person may not be fun to another. Now what i would have no problem with them doing is if you are playing offball and not away from you man for a certain amount of time then penalize you.

I feel you and I see where you are coming from, but sometimes some changes have to be made for the greater good, and I personally just believe it is one of them. I applaud u for not being a camper.

Dont get me wrong, nothing wrong with playing off ball, but it should be done when trying to correct an AI mistake or when some is penetrating and u make the switch to the big. But that's just my opinion. But we dont know how this will affect anyone until the game drops.

# 115 iamthemaster121 @ 09/16/11 06:00 PM

Haven't posted in a long time, but I'm a long time 2K gamer (since 2K2). I love the inclusion of the HARD FOUL/WRAP AROUND, but I wonder if the CPU will use it as well?

For example, if you are abusing the paint with a big that can't shoot FTs will the CPU take this strategy into consideration? That would be awesome.

I'm asking this because I don't play online (hate it as a matter of fact, mostly because of the amount of cheesers online). I keep it old school and play straight simulation.

# 116 guesswhozbak17 @ 09/16/11 06:02 PM

As someone who plays ON BALL defense (strictly as the PG being that's what I've played all my life in real life)...I like the incentive. What I think is being misunderstood is that when you play OFF BALL defense, you have the advantage of anticipation. ON BALL defense restricts you to one player(the person you're guarding). I agree that maybe there should be an incentive for correctly playing good on ball defense. The incentive for playing good OFF BALL defense is you can read the next pass or block/alter a shot. I think it's a good balance for video games.

If your team is getting killed because the CPU isn't playing good defense...take control! In real life, if someone were dominating your teammate from the perimeter or an opposing big man is dominating the paint...WOULDN'T YOU SWITCH OFF to guard him? Stop complaining that it's not fair and step your defense up. Defense is ALL about EFFORT! Good defenders play defense differently than average defenders. They play/try harder...you all should do the same.

# 117 SaC_KiNg09 @ 09/16/11 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockchisler


	Absolutely love this, but a minor problem has now occured, when you set this up at the beginning of the game, we still have the dreaded "Wait till dude sets up his plays before you do" If we are allowed to set up our settings at the same time. This will speed up gameplay..

I was just thinking of this. Hopefully in a future implementation this can all be done on the team selection screen simultaneously for both users.....like an option or something comes us saying "Configure Defensive Settings" and each user can select yes/no and then the game proceeds. Alot better than doing it once the game starts becuz hence you have to wait for ur opponent to finish.

# 118 CelticPride101 @ 09/16/11 06:05 PM

2k still finds out ways to get me more excited for this game

# 119 blues rocker @ 09/16/11 06:06 PM

there are good strategic reasons for playing offball D...for me, it's a way to make up for the poor help D of my AI teammates...my dumb AI bigs always leave the paint wide open for cutters, so i often feel i have to control my big man in the paint to defend the lead pass cutters. hopefully the improved teammate AI in 2k12 will make it easier to trust your AI teammates to stop the cutters for you.

# 120 guesswhozbak17 @ 09/16/11 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blues rocker


	there are good strategic reasons for playing offball D...for me, it's a way to make up for the poor help D of my AI teammates...my dumb AI bigs always leave the paint wide open for cutters, so i often feel i have to control my big man in the paint to defend the lead pass cutters. hopefully the improved teammate AI in 2k12 will make it easier to trust your AI teammates to stop the cutters for you.

That is understandable. But still, my point is that playing off ball allows you defend multiple things opposed to off ball defense which is focused on one person. It's easier to stand in one spot and guard the basket, your man who's by the basket and anybody cutting near the basket opposed to guarding the player with the ball who can pass, shoot or dribble to score. That's all I'm saying

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