NBA 2K12 News Post

NBA 2K12 Developer Insight #9 - Defense

02:14 PM - September 16, 2011 by mreyes930

Check out the new NBA 2K12 Developer Insight #9, as Jerson Sapida talks about the defensive side of the ball.

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# 61 Da_Czar @ 09/16/11 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Marlowe


	Its seems that defenders can only perform to their full limit when controlled by the user. How you describe that?

Your assuming that the cpu defenders will be brought lower in thwir capabilities. What if the user just get's a bonus ? 2 ways to look at it. Cpu can have same effect on shots they always have had but the user defense gets a slight bump.

It's not a ridiculous number and the quality of the defender has mattered in 2k for some time now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

# 62 Colts18 @ 09/16/11 03:28 PM

Exactly @ Ceasar. The defensive awareness of a player contesting a shot has always mattered in 2K.

# 63 blues rocker @ 09/16/11 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	Your assuming that the cpu defenders will be brought lower in thwir capabilities. What if the user just get's a bonus ? 2 ways to look at it. Cpu can have same effect on shots they always have had but the user defense gets a slight bump. It's not a ridiculous number and the quality of the defender has mattered in 2k for some time now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

thanks for clearing this up...this seems fair to me.

# 64 Pared @ 09/16/11 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blues rocker


	i get what you're saying, but i kind of disagree with you on how you define the different "levels" of shot contests... for me it's more like: 1: hands up but don't leave feet (weak contest) 2: jump straight up, and don't risk fouling (medium contest) 3: jump "into" the shooter and lean into him with your hand - a momentum jump that risks fouling (heavy contest) so for me...the "auto contest" really only covers the first level of shot contests..the other two are still controlled by the block button - just pressing block with make him jump straight up for a level 2 contest...but pressing turbo and moving toward him while pressing block will get a "heavy momentum jump contest."

If you've spent anytime with 2k11 you'd know Turbo+block = magnetic contest. Block on it's own doesn't really do anything. You jump up - you don't "contest." Again - the way their contest system works. (It also hardly ever risks a foul)

They spent a good amount of time re-evaluating all aspects of these areas. To take it to this level and then NOT allow user controlled levels of contest is disappointing.

Besides you ideally just re-iterated what I wrote and decided to assign them differently to the controls. With the way blocks work now, the system I described actually fits.

# 65 str8stuntin03 @ 09/16/11 03:32 PM

In online matches, I hate playing people who purposely switch to the off ball defender so they wont have to guard the ball handler. I want to play the human not the CPU in these instances.

# 66 dukedude24 @ 09/16/11 03:32 PM

i think i might still play off ball defense though,

since 80% of online users can't shoot and only try to dunk anyway. lol

# 67 Colts18 @ 09/16/11 03:36 PM

Because if we wanted to play the CPU we would do that. Nothing beats the joy of two users going head to head. You guarding Rose the entire game and not whoever is the ball handler is not going mano y mano.

Not sure why you all are having a hard time grasping that idea.

# 68 coolcras7 @ 09/16/11 03:38 PM

2k explained why the hands up defense is the way it is they even said after a long discussion and debate they found this solution to be a good compromise, I don't see why this is even an issue. 2k has always been a game that tried to make the casual and the sim gamers happy.

# 69 blues rocker @ 09/16/11 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by str8stuntin03


	In online matches, I hate playing people who purposely switch to the off ball defender so they wont have to guard the ball handler. I want to play the human not the CPU in these instances.

I play a lot of off ball defense, but it's mostly out of necessity. the problem with trying to play on ball defense online is the lag...the responsiveness of my player is so delayed from lag that it's almost impossible to keep up with the ball handler...not to mention in 2k11 my CPU teammates were dumb and would leave the paint wide open for cutters.

# 70 infam0us @ 09/16/11 03:40 PM

If I'm reading it right Pared, if you are back peddling with your hands up and the guy pulls up you want them to press like Y or another button to contest instead of automatically doing it.

# 71 Colts18 @ 09/16/11 03:40 PM

And another reason why I want it 10)% manual is because I don't want uneducated basketball video gamers "accidentally" contesting shots without using their typical all out jumping swats. I don't want them knowing that there is a safer means of contesting shots. I want them to remain ignorant to that fact.

It is almost as bad as SF allowing users to have 1 button special moves instead of making everyone learn the moves.

# 72 Colts18 @ 09/16/11 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Marlowe


	This mano y mano notion that keeps being brought up is BS. If thats your idea of how D should be played then fine. But dont act as if you have a monopoly on what dictates a true user v user gaming experience.

It is more fun to me to go at another user when they are controlling the defender. Like I said, if I wanted to play the CPU I would. You not guarding the ball handler is essentially me playing the computer when I am on offense. It isn't BS, it is perfect logic.

SAM.

# 73 infam0us @ 09/16/11 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Marlowe


	This mano y mano notion that keeps being brought up is BS. If thats your idea of how D should be played then fine. But dont act as if you have a monopoly on what dictates a true user v user gaming experience.

I think you are making this to be a bigger problem then it actually will be, I doubt the discrepancy in FG% will be that drastic between manually playing on ball defense or CPU playing on ball defense. I think you are picturing the opposition having a field day if you let the CPU play on ball.

Going to need one of the developers to explain this one some more.

# 74 23 @ 09/16/11 03:45 PM

All of the great stuff in this insight and you guys are still finding things to argue about?

Good grief man

# 75 Knickerbocker @ 09/16/11 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Marlowe


	This mano y mano notion that keeps being brought up is BS. If thats your idea of how D should be played then fine. But dont act as if you have a monopoly on what dictates a true user v user gaming experience.

... Well user vs user is user vs user. If the opponent keeps switching to off ball D, to avoid guarding the ball handler its user vs cpu. Rather simple.

Also everyone will still be able to play off ball. Don't really understand what's the fuss? There will be no penalties to it. You will just be rewarded for playing on ball D. And as said they introduced this since on ball D became a dying art. 95% of ppl online just switched off the ball handler and camped the paint or went for the lanes.

# 76 Pared @ 09/16/11 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blues rocker


	whatever man...i'm not going to argue anymore...i actually agree with you and feel that having "true control" would be better...

Then why are we going back and forth...? Ha. It's to allow guys that want direct involvement in the game to have more user control.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcras7


	2k explained why the hands up defense is the way it is they even said after a long discussion and debate they found this solution to be a good compromise, I don't see why this is even an issue. 2k has always been a game that tried to make the casual and the sim gamers happy.

If you truly want to see why this is an "issue" then please go back and read what I've posted. I've detailed it multiple times.

From the way it was posted, the two methods to initiate the "contest" are both dependent on what the shooter does and the AI deciding to play out an animation. That's not user controlled. Just because I have to hold something to initiate doesn't mean it is user controlled IMO. May be user "initiated" but I don't really want to get into semantics....

Quote:

Originally Posted by infam0us


	If I'm reading it right Pared, if you are back peddling with your hands up and the guy pulls up you want them to press like Y or another button to contest instead of automatically doing it.

Yes, my friend - you have the main philosophy behind it.

DC (before he was banned) and I used to have this conversation every year.

If any year was the PERFECT year to incorporate it, this was it.

Trust Jerson when he writes "after much deliberation."

I do want to add - I am NOT making this as big a deal as some of you are. I am simply stating my point and why I feel this way.

# 77 Colts18 @ 09/16/11 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Marlowe


	Its "perfect logic" to you Colts because it fits whatever your definition of the experience is. It doesn't follow for someone who approaches and expects differently than you.

Well 2K must believe a lost piece of the online/user experience is playing on-ball defense. So I will just rack up my bonus points while you RT + Y with Dwight in the paint.

# 78 domidomdomz @ 09/16/11 03:48 PM

Damn right, Jerson.

Defense wins championships.

Great read by the way.

# 79 dukedude24 @ 09/16/11 03:49 PM

people are making it a bigger issue than it really is....

who cares if u are guarding on ball or off ball....personally i switch up...

it's just depends on ur strategy.....

# 80 blues rocker @ 09/16/11 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	Then why are we going back and forth...? Ha. It's to allow guys that want direct involvement in the game to have more user control.

i just don't think the auto contest will be as much of an issue...i feel that the "weak" hand up animation won't affect the shot nearly as much as a "block button" jumping contest...so a person who can master the block button contest will still have an advantage over someone who only relies on the "auto contest"...the more skilled user still has the advantage...so, while this system is not quite ideal, it still works for me.

what i'm hoping is that they've updated their contest system so that doing a momentum jump into a shooter mid shot will actually result in a foul...i somewhat disagree that the "straight up" shot contest doesn't affect the shot at all...i felt like i could affect the shot with that animation (though not as much as a momentum jump contest).

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