NBA Elite 11 News Post

NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Milwaukee Bucks @ New York Knicks

12:21 AM - September 2, 2010 by Steve_OS

NBA ELITE 11 is back with the first of two gameplay videos featuring 5 on 5 action. This video is a user vs. user matchup with NBA ELITE Gameplay Producer Novell Thomas taking on NBA Community Manager Yaw Obiri-Yeboah (also known as blackflash83 on the forums) . The game is being played on a Pre-final build with some tuning left to do but it provides a good representation of how the game will play once you developed your skills with the new Hands-On control.

Be sure to check out some of the quick plays being called during half court offensive sequences (press X on the 360 to begin a quick play or the Square button on PS3) and the importance of playing the passing lanes as balls can get deflected. You have complete control this year in NBA ELITE 11.

Game: NBA Elite 11Reader Score: 2/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 5 - View All

NBA Elite 11 Videos

Member Comments

# 401 Behindshadows @ 09/02/10 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	Again to me this is a faulty arugment. Basket ball is based on offensive movement defensive player reaction... Not simultaneous movement ""The defensive action needs to respond, so needs to be tuned a little more to the "unrealistic" side to get the balance right and the feel to remain natural"" There is nothing natural about the defense leaving the floor after me and beating me to the spot that is a defensive advantage. Otherwise you wouldn't be able score with someone right in your face. The defense has to react. If they are allowed to be a step behind and still meet me at the same place in the air that is an unfair advantage to the defense.

What's good Fam!!! Honestly it's a broken objective! I understand what your trying to say, and I understand at this stage it isn't going to get fixed. Even before the current developers were on Elite 11, the animations were an issue from Day 1 of Live 06 and never improved.

No sense in us, continuously beating a deceased pony. In the end we lose, and we are going to get what we are going to get!

I more than anyone else wanted this Elite 11 to greatly succeed, I even PM a few people and wanted to market it free for them. But man I can imagine how many people would slap me for doing so.

As a Live/2k contributor yearly, I'm seriously torn up right now! I feel more betrayed than hurt.

# 402 rEAnimator @ 09/02/10 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	Reanimator with respect that is wrong man. Just wrong. In real life you do have to anticipate to get a block. Not to just challenge a shot but to block it you have to anticipate it in real life unless you have a matchup advantage. There is NO WAY "that better matches the experience you get in real life" No way. In one play durant was standing straight up with his arms high the offensive player goes to shoot the ball and you mean to tell me it's more realistic for durant to go striaght up and get that block ? How then would you or can your game account for close combat one on one situations ? Your giving the defense an unfair advantage. How can you balance that ?

You can read my other post on how I describe the spectrum of tradeoffs we made across different features.

But specifically to your question...in real life if you are standing in front of someone who has the ball you will make very small adjustments to your posture or position as you watch what he does.

It's not a simple as thinking "I'm going to jump now" and then just doing it. You're constantly making changes in anticipation of what you think you are going to do next. Preparing your body for it, constantly changing based on the situation.

In a video game, we can't do that because we don't know what the user is planning on doing.

So in real life you may have crouched down a little bit in anticipation of wanting to jump.

That let's you get off the ground quicker.

In our game we choose to give you that ability by pretending your virtual player had anticipated properly and allowing you to get off the ground as if you had.

There is still the anticipation aspect that causes beats and pump fakes and all that.

I was referring more to anticipation as a technical animation term. Probably shouldn't have done that as I can see now how it could be misunderstood.

If you're interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_basi...s_of_animation

# 403 k beast @ 09/02/10 06:57 PM

terrible live graphics remind me of 2001

# 404 Playmakers @ 09/02/10 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. The choices we made about the jumping animations, specifically the minimal gather, was deliberate. We wanted to nail the proper feeling of playing basketball in real life. Unfortunately in video games the anticipation of the user is completely lost on the game, so you have two options. 1. Make the game feel less responsive and have the anticipation built into the action. Makes for a good looking game, but feels wrong and the user has to compensate by performing their actions early. 2. Go with something that is visually unrealistic by reducing or eliminating the anticipation portion of the move. This makes the game look less realistic, but gives you a more satisfying feel (imho) that better matches the experience you get when playing ball in real life. Clearly, we chose option two. There is no right or wrong answer, both have advantages and disadvantages. Some people will like one more than the other. But it's not fair to judge the game solely based on the look which is the part we deliberately sacrificed, without trying the game and feeling the good part (the responsiveness and gameplay balance). (I know you've played t 23, but many here haven't so that part is directed more to them).

With all do respect reanimator,

I've never at any point felt like Live lacked player control....

Are you telling me that EA has never taken a chance on Next Gen to improve animations because you feel it would hurt player control?

Has there been at any point you guys would consider just for once taking a chance and releasing some of that player control to add more animations.

I mean for 5 years we've had great player control and yet the basic gameplay has never crossed over that level to greatness. It's always been avg at best. Are the EA heads going to for ever stay conservative and never take a chance and see how the other end of the spectrum might play out.

# 405 23 @ 09/02/10 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. The choices we made about the jumping animations, specifically the minimal gather, was deliberate. We wanted to nail the proper feeling of playing basketball in real life. Unfortunately in video games the anticipation of the user is completely lost on the game, so you have two options. 1. Make the game feel less responsive and have the anticipation built into the action. Makes for a good looking game, but feels wrong and the user has to compensate by performing their actions early. 2. Go with something that is visually unrealistic by reducing or eliminating the anticipation portion of the move. This makes the game look less realistic, but gives you a more satisfying feel (imho) that better matches the experience you get when playing ball in real life. Clearly, we chose option two. There is no right or wrong answer, both have advantages and disadvantages. Some people will like one more than the other. But it's not fair to judge the game solely based on the look which is the part we deliberately sacrificed, without trying the game and feeling the good part (the responsiveness and gameplay balance). (I know you've played t 23, but many here haven't so that part is directed more to them).

I gotcha, its always something I've had issue with... I understand your reasoning, but that poster is just being ridiculous in here thats all.

Ive said this a couple of times though, because of those decisions, some will like it and some just wont. Im not sure where the end result will end up between the two but I'd watch the consumer closely to see the response to it.

# 406 JWiLL02 @ 09/02/10 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	Ive said this a couple of times though, because of those decisions, some will like it and some just wont. Im not sure where the end result will end up between the two but I'd watch the consumer closely to see the response to it.

For the last 2 years Live's controls have blown 2k's out of the water and look at what the consumer's response was...what more do they need to see?

Live 10 was the best controlling basketball game I've ever played while 2k10's movement was almost broken, but the depth of animations carried it.

I just don't understand the decision to dedicate an entire year on controls when you already had the best 'feeling' game on the market. Now they've awoken a sleeping giant on the other side and may not even have the best controlling game this year, while their competitor continued to build on it's massive signature animation collection.

Opportunity missed, IMO.

# 407 t-mac357 @ 09/02/10 08:05 PM

I love the commentary and espn integration but... the gameplay seriously looks 10 steps behing Live 10

# 408 WTF @ 09/02/10 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. The choices we made about the jumping animations, specifically the minimal gather, was deliberate. We wanted to nail the proper feeling of playing basketball in real life. Unfortunately in video games the anticipation of the user is completely lost on the game, so you have two options. 1. Make the game feel less responsive and have the anticipation built into the action. Makes for a good looking game, but feels wrong and the user has to compensate by performing their actions early. 2. Go with something that is visually unrealistic by reducing or eliminating the anticipation portion of the move. This makes the game look less realistic, but gives you a more satisfying feel (imho) that better matches the experience you get when playing ball in real life. Clearly, we chose option two. There is no right or wrong answer, both have advantages and disadvantages. Some people will like one more than the other. But it's not fair to judge the game solely based on the look which is the part we deliberately sacrificed, without trying the game and feeling the good part (the responsiveness and gameplay balance). (I know you've played t 23, but many here haven't so that part is directed more to them).

I'm not going to get tied into the argument here, but just wanted to throw out my opinion for what it's worth. I've already commented on the video as a whole, and my viewpoint on the series.

Last year, I have to admit, I was more excited about Live than I've been about any bball title since Inside Drive 2004, and that's saying a lot. The new "Sim Direction" had me excited. The new controls for PnR was sweet, and the passing system was second to none. The animations weren't there, but the gameplay was getting better. In fact, the demo probably got more playtime from me than any NBA game has in the past few years.

Now, with that said, when I saw the comments from Mike about EA going a different direction, I was not hopping on the EA boat. Finally we had a product that was resembling a game that had some longevity. The graphics weren't perfect, nor were the animations, but the gameplay and play system was getting there. Finding that they possibly weren't going to just upgrade the solid foundation, and going a "new direction", I didn't know what to think, but wanted to keep an open mind.

Seeing the "It's all in your hands" type deal, was fine an dandy, no real problem with that. If I'm getting beat, I'm getting beat because of me. Cool. Whatever. Real Time Physics? If done correctly, sweet. Very nice addition, and could possible make those "wow" 1 of a kind situations.

After watching the first videos from the devs, the Quick Clips, things started jumping out at me that this was not an NBA title, more of a "basketball" title. I wasn't impressed with the animations, wasn't impressed with the visuals, and none of the visuals "did it" for me. Wasn't writing them off yet, waiting to see more.

Then 23's videos come out... WOW. Not a pleasing representation of NBA basketball, or even organized basketball at all. Animations were just awkward, gameplay was frantic, and it had nothing whatsoever that drew me to the title. It was a pitiful "advancement" from the solid base from last year. Going back to the early vids from last year really showed some decent AI and gameplay. The dumb hopping up the court celebration was awful, but other aspects of the game was actually pretty nice looking. Were some of the animations scripted, yeah, but it kept things a little more... ummmmm... accurate. I guess the Real Time Physics was the answer to this. Supposedly.

Watching the video that you all just put out, just reeked of "damage control". I talked to several guys on here prior to this, and basically said exactly what we'd see. Two of the devs basically playing the game at a slowed down pace, working the ball around, using the shot-clock, trying to show that the game is not an up and down, rocket dunk, easy fast break, highlight fest. And what did we get? I counted a few times in the video where the user could have easily went to the hoop basically uncontested... and instead, backed it out to "run a play" and try to show the title in a sim aspect. And it was not appealing to me at all.

Then I come to read your debate with 23 about the "jumping" and pre-gather. I don't care if it's for the sake of being in control or not. It looks ridiculous, no matter how much anyone tries to defend that executive decision. A quick bend of the knees would not have taken the control out of the users hands, it would actually do the exact opposite. Basketball, and rebounding/blocking in general, is all about anticipation. If you anticipate the bounce, and jump on time (including the gather) you could grab the board. If you jump too early or late, then you miss the board. Deal with it, learn how to time your jump. Removing the "gather" looks awful, and just doesn't represent basketball at any level, other than possibly pee-wee league, where the kids jump stiff legged anyway. Guys rocket jumping, using nothing but their calves I'm assuming, just isn't right, no matter how you swing it, and it looks crazy.

I'm not saying that this game won't be fun for some people. I'm glad that there is an alternative, and it won't feel the same as the other game. However, it's not for me.

Because someone at EA made the decision to eliminate the "gather" portion of jumping, doesn't mean it was the right one. Doesn't mean it was the wrong one. It's up to the interpreter. In this case, I'm with 23. Looks awful, and I'd rather take the extra 1/2 second to time my gather, to have a game that looks realistic.

No matter how much that video was supposed to show a "sim style" gameplay, in my opinion, it failed miserably.

# 409 WTF @ 09/02/10 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmakers


	With all do respect reanimator, I've never at any point felt like Live lacked player control.... Are you telling me that EA has never taken a chance on Next Gen to improve animations because you feel it would hurt player control? Has there been at any point you guys would consider just for once taking a chance and releasing some of that player control to add more animations. I mean for 5 years we've had great player control and yet the basic gameplay has never crossed over that level to greatness. It's always been avg at best. Are the EA heads going to for ever stay conservative and never take a chance and see how the other end of the spectrum might play out.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

# 410 WTF @ 09/02/10 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	Again to me this is a faulty arugment. Basket ball is based on offensive movement defensive player reaction... Not simultaneous movement ""The defensive action needs to respond, so needs to be tuned a little more to the "unrealistic" side to get the balance right and the feel to remain natural"" There is nothing natural about the defense leaving the floor after me and beating me to the spot that is a defensive advantage. Otherwise you wouldn't be able score with someone right in your face. The defense has to react. If they are allowed to be a step behind and still meet me at the same place in the air that is an unfair advantage to the defense.

I don't know how I missed this, but my long drawn out post, basically says the same as this by Da Czar. Go figure, Sim head agreeing with Sim head.

It's just not "right". No matter how it's swung. If I'm the defense, if I don't anticipate a block, then I shouldn't get it. If I don't anticipated and gather for the rebound, I shouldn't get it. Regardless.

# 411 Jano @ 09/02/10 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF


	Because someone at EA made the decision to eliminate the "gather" portion of jumping, doesn't mean it was the right one. Doesn't mean it was the wrong one. It's up to the interpreter. In this case, I'm with 23. Looks awful, and I'd rather take the extra 1/2 second to time my gather, to have a game that looks realistic. No matter how much that video was supposed to show a "sim style" gameplay, in my opinion, it failed miserably.

Great post WTF.

My question is if that anticipation and gather part of the anim takes away from control AND makes the game feel worse on D would you still want it in?

To me it seems like the devs made this decision after testing the game both ways. And realizing that one way of doing it leads to more frustration for the user then the other.

Obviously its ugly looking and completely unrealistic but if it makes for better gameplay I can see why they chose it. Maybe for the way their game works and the time they had in developing the game this was just the better option.

Its not what we want to see visually thats for sure but, iif in the end when you're playing and you can defend shots or drives to the basket stress free (ie you don't feel cheated) can it be something you can tolerate?

That to me is what the devs seem to be trying to accomplish this year, create a game that PLAYS frustration free. Meaning its a game where the hits it takes in looks, it makes up for in control and fairness (or balance) on both ends of the floor for the user.

# 412 XuanWu @ 09/02/10 09:22 PM

TERRIBLE, JUST TERRIBLE.

Ouch.

# 413 Da_Czar @ 09/02/10 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jano


	Great post WTF. My question is if that anticipation and gather part of the anim takes away from control AND makes the game feel worse on D would you still want it in? To me it seems like the devs made this decision after testing the game both ways. And realizing that one way of doing it leads to more frustration for the user then the other. Obviously its ugly looking and completely unrealistic but if it makes for better gameplay I can see why they chose it. Maybe for the way their game works and the time they had in developing the game this was just the better option. Its not what we want to see visually thats for sure but, iif in the end when you're playing and you can defend shots or drives to the basket stress free (ie you don't feel cheated) can it be something you can tolerate? That to me is what the devs seem to be trying to accomplish this year, create a game that PLAYS frustration free. Meaning its a game where the hits it takes in looks, it makes up for in control and fairness (or balance) on both ends of the floor for the user.

Jano ... Family... This is not a control vs animation issue at its core. Its an arcade vs sim issue. They have just "rebranded" the argument.

This is the exact type of decision making I was referring to in my Basketball is not Hockey Thread. In that game with the thunder with 3:20 or so on the game clock you can see prince going up for a shot after a step back...

the user on defense initiated a hands up animation right..... Then while the offensive player was already in the air and couldn't adjust the defense was able to see the offensive player starting to shoot in the MIDDLE of his hands up animation. BOTH arms in the air and legs stiff as a board. Cancel out of that and go straight up without any hesitation.

THAT is ARCADE basketball. That is a move not based in reality but its there because someone made the decision that control is more important than reality.

Arcade has no regard for the fundamentals of the game. its real life implementation of the mechanics of defense or the physical limitations of the human body.

If the defense can perform 2 moves in the time you can only do one. that is a disadvantage to the offensive player. In essence even though you made the wrong decision on defense which IRL would have resulted in my getting a shot off your able to magically decide to challenge the shot and block it even though I made my decision before you...

Does that make sense in a simulation of basketball ? How on earth will you ever get a shot off ? How often are step back jumper smacked like that ?

Now if that is the direction then no problem just say were making a arcade basketball game. But they came on here and said they are sticking with the sim direction. In no way shape or form is that a simulation of the fundamentals of basketball defense.

# 414 RayDog253 @ 09/02/10 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	Jano ... Family... This is not a control vs animation issue at its core. Its an arcade vs sim issue. They have just "rebranded" the argument. This is the exact type of decision making I was referring to in my Basketball is not Hockey Thread. In that game with the thunder with 3:20 or so on the game clock you can see prince going up for a shot after a step back... the user on defense initiated a hands up animation right..... Then while the offensive player was already in the air and couldn't adjust the defense was able to see the offensive player starting to shoot in the MIDDLE of his hands up animation. BOTH arms in the air and legs stiff as a board. Cancel out of that and go straight up without any hesitation. THAT is ARCADE basketball. That is a move not based in reality but its there because someone made the decision that control is more important than reality. Arcade has no regard for the fundamentals of the game. its real life implementation of the mechanics of defense or the physical limitations of the human body. If the defense can perform 2 moves in the time you can only do one. that is a disadvantage to the offensive player. In essence even though you made the wrong decision on defense which IRL would have resulted in my getting a shot off your able to magically decide to challenge the shot and block it even though I made my decision before you... Does that make sense in a simulation of basketball ? How on earth will you ever get a shot off ? How often are step back jumper smacked like that ? Now if that is the direction then no problem just say were making a arcade basketball game. But they came on here and said they are sticking with the sim direction. In no way shape or form is that a simulation of the fundamentals of basketball defense.

Well actually if you watched the Fiba games Durant was smacking them all over the place. But I get your point.

I think they're definitely going to have to patch it back in if possible.

# 415 Da_Czar @ 09/02/10 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayDog253


	Well actually if you watched the Fiba games Durant was smacking them all over the place. But I get your point. I think they're definitely going to have to patch it back in if possible.

In my other post in another thread I said something like if you don't have a matchup advantage like size or quickness. I'm talking in general sense if all this are equal. But I see you get that. And durant smacking Iran's shots back really isn't a good example...

Just messing with you Ray. I'm done on this topic its not realistic and it give the defense an advantage, Arcade.

# 416 23 @ 09/02/10 10:25 PM

Durant smacking shots on guys like Rudy Fernandez has nothing to do with what was just explained.

I used to always wonder how the heck MJ beat a guy to the rack when he was right under it and dunked on him even good shot blockers... Well MJ always got up first... or beat the man to his spot and bam, the one who jumps last loses

In this game, MJ would've been blocked and sent home... Just not reality sir

Thats just an example but a clear one

# 417 RayDog253 @ 09/02/10 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	In my other post in another thread I said something like if you don't have a matchup advantage like size or quickness. I'm talking in general sense if all this are equal. But I see you get that. And durant smacking Iran's shots back really isn't a good example... Just messing with you Ray. I'm done on this topic its not realistic and it give the defense an advantage, Arcade.

Yeah, You're right. Not a great example.

I fully understand why you don't like it.

But looking at it from their perspective, you wonder if this was the only way they could get smooth and responsive shot blocking with out the 2 man animations.

Nah.... I still don't think a gather would of affected it that much. But hey what do I know about animations and what not.

# 418 yungflo @ 09/02/10 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangerrick012


	Even w/ ESPN license commentary still seems dead, perhaps even worse than last year. Gameplay seems disjointed...IDK how to describe it. Not as free flowing as I expected when I heard 'real time physics'. And what was up w/ the non existent intensity on defense from both guys? Seemed like they were just letting each other run plays...another reason why PvP gameplay vids are always tough to judge compared to PvCPU.

Jennings was skating alot, I don't get the hand down, man down comment where john salmons was wide open for the three? this game looks impressive but still some work to be done. can't wait for the demo.

# 419 RayDog253 @ 09/02/10 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	Durant smacking shots on guys like Rudy Fernandez has nothing to do with what was just explained. I used to always wonder how the heck MJ beat a guy to the rack when he was right under it and dunked on him even good shot blockers... Well MJ always got up first... or beat the man to his spot and bam, the one who jumps last loses In this game, MJ would've been blocked and sent home... Just not reality sir Thats just an example but a clear one

That vid is the perfect example.

And the whole durant thing wasn't a response to his full post or the topic in general. I fully understand what you guys are saying and I 100% agree. For what it's worth I've never liked the jumping in past lives either. Shot blockin has been broke for the longest.

# 420 yungflo @ 09/02/10 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEW_ORLEANS


	Not feeling the commentary so far.

its spot on, i think.

« Previous 1 2…15 16 17 18 19 202122 23 Next »

More Links

NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Milwaukee Bucks @ New York Knicks