NBA Elite 11 News Post

NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Milwaukee Bucks @ New York Knicks

12:21 AM - September 2, 2010 by Steve_OS

NBA ELITE 11 is back with the first of two gameplay videos featuring 5 on 5 action. This video is a user vs. user matchup with NBA ELITE Gameplay Producer Novell Thomas taking on NBA Community Manager Yaw Obiri-Yeboah (also known as blackflash83 on the forums) . The game is being played on a Pre-final build with some tuning left to do but it provides a good representation of how the game will play once you developed your skills with the new Hands-On control.

Be sure to check out some of the quick plays being called during half court offensive sequences (press X on the 360 to begin a quick play or the Square button on PS3) and the importance of playing the passing lanes as balls can get deflected. You have complete control this year in NBA ELITE 11.

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Member Comments

# 381 mario_2324 @ 09/02/10 05:36 PM

The 2nd video is gonna be up less than an hour......http://twitter.com/operationsports

# 382 ezmoney707 @ 09/02/10 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jano


	I think this build may have been a little older then the one we saw at the event.

Can anyone confirm that or is that just your observation from playing the game last week ?

# 383 Jano @ 09/02/10 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezmoney707


	Can anyone confirm that or is that just your observation from playing the game last week ?

Actually i don't know I thought in the other videos there were 3 refs but theirs only two in them also. And there just standing around on those too..

Hopefully that's not the case in the final game.

# 384 eye guy @ 09/02/10 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesniper321


	I don't understand what you're trying to say ... Everything you show is still there it will just take MORE skills than pressing a button to perform those moves, is there a problem??

Yeah, there is. The defense doesn't react to what the offensive player is doing. Whether it be an animation or not, they should have something in place so it does. Where are the physics?

For example. Play too close and i'll right past you....

http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/33782314

Look at what happens at 0.34 in Hoosiers clip. Spin move with no adjustment by the defender, no sliding to the correct position, no body contact to slow momentum, no hand in his face when he shoots the jumper etc, etc... All this in a few seconds? What the............................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZLJC...layer_embedded#!

I feel at least Live 10 made it look realistic enough for it to be playable, let alone watchable. EA had me nibbling at the bait with Live 10, but E11 just f**ked it all up. By the way, I prefer 2K's game but Live 10 was under-rated and deserved more love than what it recieved.

That's what i'm trying to say.

# 385 fatleg3 @ 09/02/10 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mario_2324


	The 2nd video is gonna be up less than an hour......http://twitter.com/operationsports

Dang i want to see some better teams not to say that the thunder are a bad team. Lets see some Lakers, magic, heat, celtics, bulls, mavs, suns, etc

# 386 mario_2324 @ 09/02/10 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatleg3


	Dang i want to see some better teams not to say that the thunder are a bad team. Lets see some Lakers, magic, heat, celtics, bulls, mavs, suns, etc

Lol well i think OKC will most likely be one of them for the second vid......Im just gonna prepare myself to read a lot of negative posts lol......the match up is thunder and Pistons.....AI VS USER

# 387 darknmild @ 09/02/10 06:02 PM

i have to come to realize people here complain about every damn thing

# 388 rEAnimator @ 09/02/10 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgthem


	Man i keep watching this and like,...is the defender even responding to the ball handler its like when they do cross overs which were pretty mediocore they don't even respond to teh ball handler...

The defender responds to the user input and nothing else, unlike last year where the defender would get pulled into a "beat" animation that matched up with the dribbler's animation. It looked pretty, but felt horrible.

This year's game feels right, feels like playing basketball, and when you're beat you know it's your fault.

All these gameplay improvements along with great modes like EASBA and Legendary make this year's game ton of fun to play.

No video will convince you of that. I sound like a broken record here, but the demo should be the deciding factor for everyone.

# 389 Drix10 @ 09/02/10 06:19 PM

Wow, this feels and reminds me of one or all of those PS2 versions of Live. Granted I haven't played a Live game since I discovered 2K years ago. But this is very much like that. I am glad I'm a 2K player 'cause that's not very impressive. And this is the new "Elite"?

# 390 rEAnimator @ 09/02/10 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	Dawg just stop it man No human being has magical springs in his kneecaps where he quickly gets off the floor and jumps 43 inches into the air Thats just too much, not only does it look weird, but its not real, its not physics nor does anyone do that. That same thing was in last years game and it makes the players look more like puppets than players Sheesh man just be honest. The game can never get better if people continue to tell them things wrong are okay

I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. The choices we made about the jumping animations, specifically the minimal gather, was deliberate.

We wanted to nail the proper feeling of playing basketball in real life. Unfortunately in video games the anticipation of the user is completely lost on the game, so you have two options.

1. Make the game feel less responsive and have the anticipation built into the action. Makes for a good looking game, but feels wrong and the user has to compensate by performing their actions early.

2. Go with something that is visually unrealistic by reducing or eliminating the anticipation portion of the move. This makes the game look less realistic, but gives you a more satisfying feel (imho) that better matches the experience you get when playing ball in real life.

Clearly, we chose option two. There is no right or wrong answer, both have advantages and disadvantages. Some people will like one more than the other.

But it's not fair to judge the game solely based on the look which is the part we deliberately sacrificed, without trying the game and feeling the good part (the responsiveness and gameplay balance).

(I know you've played t 23, but many here haven't so that part is directed more to them).

# 391 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/02/10 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus


	Actually in real basketball you have to anticipate your opponents next move to effectively counter it. So option one would have been the most accurate one.

I think what he is trying to get at, is have the action dictated more by the user.

The user is the one who is going to have to anticipate, rather then an animation sequence taking over the game.

# 392 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/02/10 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. The choices we made about the jumping animations, specifically the minimal gather, was deliberate. We wanted to nail the proper feeling of playing basketball in real life. Unfortunately in video games the anticipation of the user is completely lost on the game, so you have two options. 1. Make the game feel less responsive and have the anticipation built into the action. Makes for a good looking game, but feels wrong and the user has to compensate by performing their actions early. 2. Go with something that is visually unrealistic by reducing or eliminating the anticipation portion of the move. This makes the game look less realistic, but gives you a more satisfying feel (imho) that better matches the experience you get when playing ball in real life. Clearly, we chose option two. There is no right or wrong answer, both have advantages and disadvantages. Some people will like one more than the other. But it's not fair to judge the game solely based on the look which is the part we deliberately sacrificed, without trying the game and feeling the good part (the responsiveness and gameplay balance). (I know you've played t 23, but many here haven't so that part is directed more to them).

Question..Will we be able to perform or see players do signature moves..or shoot with their signature shots?

For me, I really am not concerned with animation depth.

What I consider more important, is for the animations that are in the game, to make sense given the situation.

The number 1 important thing for me, gameplay wise, is that I must feel like I am in complete control of my player, at all times.

I'm not a fan of programed animations, dictating what happens to me.

# 393 bigball12 @ 09/02/10 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	Go with something that is visually unrealistic

Why would you guys do this, and not get the best of both worlds? Pointing out the game's major lack of authenticity before the product even hits the market? Come on now, this is ridiculous! From the 2 videos that you guys have shown use yourselves, the game looks terrible, and does not 'appear' to play well. I know you said that we need to play it to get an 'accurate representation' but if that is the case, and predominately 90% of the comments on your 2 videos have been negative, why even come out with them in the first place? We are essentially paying $60 for NBA Jam, and getting this for free.

# 394 Da_Czar @ 09/02/10 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. The choices we made about the jumping animations, specifically the minimal gather, was deliberate. We wanted to nail the proper feeling of playing basketball in real life. Unfortunately in video games the anticipation of the user is completely lost on the game, so you have two options. 1. Make the game feel less responsive and have the anticipation built into the action. Makes for a good looking game, but feels wrong and the user has to compensate by performing their actions early. 2. Go with something that is visually unrealistic by reducing or eliminating the anticipation portion of the move. This makes the game look less realistic, but gives you a more satisfying feel (imho) that better matches the experience you get when playing ball in real life. Clearly, we chose option two. There is no right or wrong answer, both have advantages and disadvantages. Some people will like one more than the other. But it's not fair to judge the game solely based on the look which is the part we deliberately sacrificed, without trying the game and feeling the good part (the responsiveness and gameplay balance). (I know you've played t 23, but many here haven't so that part is directed more to them).

Reanimator with respect that is wrong man. Just wrong. In real life you do have to anticipate to get a block. Not to just challenge a shot but to block it you have to anticipate it in real life unless you have a matchup advantage.

There is NO WAY "that better matches the experience you get in real life"

No way.

In one play durant was standing straight up with his arms high the offensive player goes to shoot the ball and you mean to tell me it's more realistic for durant to go striaght up and get that block ?

How then would you or can your game account for close combat one on one situations ? Your giving the defense an unfair advantage. How can you balance that ?

# 395 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/02/10 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus


	its not about animations taking over the game, its about being accurate to the sport. In basket ball people get head faked because they attempt to anticipate the shot or move, so an animation that requires that you que it a little bit early would not be unrealistic. If u want to give users options add branching windows so it can be tapped or held for the appropriate action.

Gotcha. I misunderstood what you were saying.

# 396 rEAnimator @ 09/02/10 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus


	Actually in real basketball you have to anticipate your opponents next move to effectively counter it. So option one would have been the most accurate one.

Right, but my point is that the game engine doesn't know what you are anticipating in your head.

In real life, much of that is subconscious. If you're playing a game and are forced to move that subconscious thought into your consciousness it ends up feeling unnatural.

Also, some actions we allow more of the anticipation (like shooting for example) because the control scheme allows for it to feel natural (up then release) and because it is the offensive action.

The defensive action needs to respond, so needs to be tuned a little more to the "unrealistic" side to get the balance right and the feel to remain natural.

defensive movement is somewhere in the middle. We need you to anticipate and be able to guess wrong, but we don't want you to lag too far behind or defending would be impossible.

This wasn't a simple process by any means. A lot of thought and testing went into every aspect of the game.

The overriding goal was to make the best feeling basketball game that best represents the feeling of playing in real life.

You cannot understand that until you've played the game (and got used to the controls).

If it's not the kind of game you want to play that's fine. But don't dismiss it without having experienced the part we put all the effort into.

# 397 Da_Czar @ 09/02/10 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportyguyfl31


	I think what he is trying to get at, is have the action dictated more by the user. The user is the one who is going to have to anticipate, rather then an animation sequence taking over the game.

That is just it though fly the user doesn't have to he can react to what your doing and still get the block that is just not possible. There is always a delay between the offense and defense because the defense never knows when the offensive player will move unless he anticipates... This is wrong.

# 398 rEAnimator @ 09/02/10 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigball12


	Why would you guys do this, and not get the best of both worlds? Pointing out the game's major lack of authenticity before the product even hits the market? Come on now, this is ridiculous! From the 2 videos that you guys have shown use yourselves, the game looks terrible, and does not 'appear' to play well. I know you said that we need to play it to get an 'accurate representation' but if that is the case, and predominately 90% of the comments on your 2 videos have been negative, why even come out with them in the first place? We are essentially paying $60 for NBA Jam, and getting this for free.

We've shown a lot of different footage.

We've shown this 5v5 footage with an emphasis on plays and realistic pacing.

We've shown how the physics is dynamic and there are no two player animations.

We've shown awesome highlight moments that make the game exciting, and how you'll rarely see the same thing twice. A missed putback followed by a second putback, when have you seen that in previous versions of live? Never.

This is a completely different experience, and that is what the videos are meant to showcase.

There is enough evidence out there for people to believe what we've been saying.

Bundling Jam is meant to get more people to try the game. It's a sign of confidence, not weakness.

You only get to rename your product once. You can really only change your control scheme once. This year is huge for us.

We know what we have is special. We know what we have is different.

All of these things (Jam, name, controls) are not marketing gimicks. They are things you can only do once, and we're doing them all at one time because this is the year we want people to try the game.

# 399 Da_Czar @ 09/02/10 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	Right, but my point is that the game engine doesn't know what you are anticipating in your head. In real life, much of that is subconscious. If you're playing a game and are forced to move that subconscious thought into your consciousness it ends up feeling unnatural. Also, some actions we allow more of the anticipation (like shooting for example) because the control scheme allows for it to feel natural (up then release) and because it is the offensive action. The defensive action needs to respond, so needs to be tuned a little more to the "unrealistic" side to get the balance right and the feel to remain natural. defensive movement is somewhere in the middle. We need you to anticipate and be able to guess wrong, but we don't want you to lag too far behind or defending would be impossible. This wasn't a simple process by any means. A lot of thought and testing went into every aspect of the game. The overriding goal was to make the best feeling basketball game that best represents the feeling of playing in real life. You cannot understand that until you've played the game (and got used to the controls). If it's not the kind of game you want to play that's fine. But don't dismiss it without having experienced the part we put all the effort into.

Again to me this is a faulty arugment. Basket ball is based on offensive movement defensive player reaction... Not simultaneous movement

""The defensive action needs to respond, so needs to be tuned a little more to the "unrealistic" side to get the balance right and the feel to remain natural""

There is nothing natural about the defense leaving the floor after me and beating me to the spot that is a defensive advantage. Otherwise you wouldn't be able score with someone right in your face.

The defense has to react. If they are allowed to be a step behind and still meet me at the same place in the air that is an unfair advantage to the defense.

# 400 Jano @ 09/02/10 06:52 PM

It makes sense from a gameplay standpoint rEAnimator especially considering how limiting things probably were when you guys got rid of the two player anims and brought in RTP. You had to make some sacrifices for the way the game is going to be played.

I just hope that the fake jumping is gone next year and replaced with a realisitic action. That second year under you guys belt should allow you to figure out some ways to make sure the game can recognize more actions.

I can understand where you coming from because choosing option 1 may have lead to some frustrating things happening on defense. But overall though the goal next year should be increasing sig animations and adding in even more contextual ones (this is where you're really hurting in Elite).

The contextual ones are going to be key that's where a lot of the unrealistic stuff is coming from imo. A lot of the stuff you talked about (unconscious and conscious) is stuff that will be possible by adding in more contextual ones imo.

I can now see how much of a luxury those two player anims were last year for you guys. They allowed you to account for me actions on the court. This game will be interesting to play in a couple of years if you guys continue to build your contextual animation database.

Almost everything will be contextual rather then two player based, And that will lead to a game that is great to control and look at.

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NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Milwaukee Bucks @ New York Knicks