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NBA 2K15 News Post


(Promoting this post to the homepage, written by Mike Wang, Sr. Game Designer for NBA 2K15)

Let me clarify up the design of the shot meter. In previous 2K's, shot timing was just another factor within a huge list of other things that spit out a final shot % which we then rolled dice against. So really, it was Real Player % with a bit of help from the user. But the skill of the user had a minimal impact.

In 2K15, all factors that make up a good vs. bad shot get rolled up into a value that then scales the timing window for your jump shooter. So now, timing is a much more crucial factor in whether you make or miss. This puts the onus on the user to execute with more precision and separates the skilled users from the lucky ones. It's actually very similar to the design of Free Throw shooting. You can make the shot if you manage to get perfect timing but your % falls the further you are from the ideal release point. If you're way off, it's a guaranteed miss.

It's also a much more useful feedback system. If you're unfamiliar with your players, it's much easier to get a sense of their timing by glancing at the meter. Also, it's much easier to see how close or off you were with your timing after the fact to help you learn... much more useful than the letter grade system (which is still an option btw.)

My intention was never to make shooting a "meter game." The most successful people in the office are the ones who still watch the shot animations for visual cues of when to release, using the meter only for feedback or for occasional guidance.

I knew there would be some concerns, so let me try to address those now:

- No, you cannot "master" the meter and hit every shot you take
- Yes, you can turn it off in the options menu
- Yes, Real FG% is still an option
- Yes, it is very difficult to get "perfect timing," especially on the higher levels

Hopefully that clears some things up. IMO, shooting is much more engaging now and I think you guys will like the feature.

Game: NBA 2K15Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments
# 201 stillfeelme @ 08/19/14 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruxpinke
This is one of the most frustrating things, it feels like all CPU players at the line are between 80-90 percent when i play, no matter who's getting fouled.
Most likely a ratings boost issue. Something like this came up last year most people on OS that responded in the thread said that FT shooting should behave like shooting in 2K14. Basically the release only give you a portion of the success and the rest is determined by ratings which makes it very hard to turn Dwight to a 80% shooter

Just be reading LD2K's response I have a feeling they made the perfect release timing window slightly smaller.
 
# 202 Goffs @ 08/19/14 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LD2k
It's tougher this year. I'll let Dev. speak to it, but from my experience, it's tougher to hit free throws (in a good way) this year.
Make it like the Dreamcast days where you had to hold lightly the LT+RT triggers to shoot freethrows.
 
# 203 jdareal21 @ 08/19/14 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LD2k
It's tougher this year. I'll let Dev. speak to it, but from my experience, it's tougher to hit free throws (in a good way) this year.
Awesome! The foundation is already there from 2K14, all it needed was refinement, similar to how 2K11 was the new template that 2K13 (IMO) molded to perfection for the previous generation. Sounds like we're heading in that direction and I can't wait...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goffs
Make it like the Dreamcast days where you had to hold lightly the LT+RT triggers to shoot freethrows.
HA! I forgot all about that technique. I wouldn't mind that coming back either.
 
# 204 Vni @ 08/19/14 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goffs
Make it like the Dreamcast days where you had to hold lightly the LT+RT triggers to shoot freethrows.
Was it with the ugly squares on the screen ? I don't really remember. I would hate to have some random crap on the screen though.

EDIT: there at 6.20


That thing takes the whole screen. Tewwwible.

Game still looks good though.
 
# 205 The 24th Letter @ 08/19/14 06:06 PM
I don't know, I don't want to miss a free throw on a perfect release for the heck of it...
 
# 206 dwadefan45 @ 08/19/14 07:13 PM
 
# 207 alabamarob @ 08/19/14 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwadefan45
Og said that the first one has been corrected. The worst part of 14 to me.

The second video is not as irritating but thos extra bs points add up. I am confident that both things have been corrected. I get the vibe they on their grind this year.
 
# 208 lgxjames @ 08/19/14 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LD2k
It's tougher this year. I'll let Dev. speak to it, but from my experience, it's tougher to hit free throws (in a good way) this year.
Real FT% (??) Wasn't that always in the game??
 
# 209 Blzer @ 08/20/14 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LD2k
It's tougher this year. I'll let Dev. speak to it, but from my experience, it's tougher to hit free throws (in a good way) this year.
Maybe a stupid question, but why did basketball games go away from the crosshair FT shooting? I know 2K never really had that (in fact, they had a nice one that involved trigger pressure that was also ditched), but I feel like that wasn't necessarily totally broken or abusive if it was set up difficultly enough.
 
# 210 VDusen04 @ 08/20/14 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blzer
Maybe a stupid question, but why did basketball games go away from the crosshair FT shooting? I know 2K never really had that (in fact, they had a nice one that involved trigger pressure that was also ditched), but I feel like that wasn't necessarily totally broken or abusive if it was set up difficultly enough.
I'd guess the move away from cursors and crosshairs was to make free throws a little more natural as opposed to feeling like a mini-game. They're fun nostalgia for me, but I certainly prefer the modern technique. I have a lot memories of frustration with the 2K system (try to center, try to center, CENTERED!, crap lost it, try to center, try to center...)

 
# 211 quehouston @ 08/20/14 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDusen04
I'd guess the move away from cursors and crosshairs was to make free throws a little more natural as opposed to feeling like a mini-game. They're fun nostalgia for me, but I certainly prefer the modern technique. I have a lot memories of frustration with the 2K system (try to center, try to center, CENTERED!, crap lost it, try to center, try to center...)

Man this brings back memories lol. I remember the frustration shooting with horrible FT shooters.

SN: Why is Shaq shooting left handed?
 
# 212 Beluba @ 08/20/14 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blzer
Maybe a stupid question, but why did basketball games go away from the crosshair FT shooting? I know 2K never really had that (in fact, they had a nice one that involved trigger pressure that was also ditched), but I feel like that wasn't necessarily totally broken or abusive if it was set up difficultly enough.
for every person that liked the trigger pressure FT shooting, there were another 10 that hated it. We actually experimented with an angry bird type FT shooting system a few years back and it was pretty fun. The main problem with any mini-game like that is that people either got it (and mastered it) or people couldn't do it to save their lives. I personally love our current FT shooting mechanic... simple to understand and users have a decent amount of influence over the outcome without skewing too wildly from real life stats. If somebody proposed another way to do free throws that could accomplish the same results, I'd be open to changing it though.
 
# 213 VDusen04 @ 08/20/14 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quehouston
Man this brings back memories lol. I remember the frustration shooting with horrible FT shooters.

SN: Why is Shaq shooting left handed?
2K3 glitch. Derek Fisher shot first in free throw practice. Shaq retained his handedness.
 
# 214 m-dogg @ 08/20/14 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
First of all, that build is very old code. Second, there's no bad shot on Pro Default settings.

Really, I understand the concern... but I guarantee everything will be fine in the final product. But I also wouldn't advise any veteran 2K gamer to play on Pro Default. A lot of realism goes out the window on default settings.
This concerns me a little, as I tend to play modes that do not have sliders available to them UNFORTUNATELY (MyCareer and Team Up), and we found pro sim to be the only option for even somewhat realistic play. even then the CPU can shoot 60% with the Jazz. Anything Superstar or higher and forget about it, the CPU becomes unstoppable and your AI teammates do not raise its game to match them and the shooting % becomes ridiculous. So I stay on pro sim and limit my own play to balance it out.

I would love it if raising the difficulty only made things harder for the user. It should not affect our AI teammates or the offensive shooting skills of the opponent AI. players shoot what they shoot, why should this change? just make them better defensively, more aware, play harder, more intense team defense, harder for the user, etc. but having role players lighting you up over and over can get tiresome. I envy OSers that play modes with sliders, because they can fix all of this and make 2k play a beautiful game of basketball...but my tastes unfortunately do not have that luxury. I just hope better balance and realistic AI shooting percentages can be maintained with difficulty settings this year...or maybe sliders are added to ALL modes
 
# 215 BezO @ 08/20/14 12:38 PM
I like that the animation & window were separated as explained.

As long as the circle is turn-offable, I'm cool.
 
# 216 worstsportsgamer1977 @ 08/20/14 06:17 PM
i hope they address cpu animation shots. they almost always hit their floaters. whether off the backboard or down the lane.
 
# 217 thedream2k13 @ 08/20/14 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BezO
I like that the animation & window were separated as explained.

As long as the circle is turn-offable, I'm cool.
I think the shot animation is dependent on the " window". The shot release will matter more than ever now.
I am just sad 2k trying to make learning to shoot easier therefore foresaking the need for practice mode shooting
 
# 218 Sundown @ 08/21/14 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruxpinke
This is one of the most frustrating things, it feels like all CPU players at the line are between 80-90 percent when i play, no matter who's getting fouled.
Of all things this one needs a slider. And it would be easy to implement. I'm fine with them just fixing it to reflect correct ratings/percentages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
for every person that liked the trigger pressure FT shooting, there were another 10 that hated it. We actually experimented with an angry bird type FT shooting system a few years back and it was pretty fun.
I liked the classic double trigger FT shooting-- it seemed brilliant at the time-- as well as every other novel mechanic, no matter how ridiculous. Even the Dualshock motion freethrows.

If you had kinect controls and had me mime FTs, I would probably love that too. The current system is extremely utilitarian, but gets the job done, though I sometimes pine for a little more to it.

Hmm speaking of kinect, if you allowed us to affect opposing team freethrows at home by yelling and waving at the TV like a lunatic, I would probably be down too.
 
# 219 BezO @ 08/21/14 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedream2k13
I think the shot animation is dependent on the " window". The shot release will matter more than ever now.
I am just sad 2k trying to make learning to shoot easier therefore foresaking the need for practice mode shooting
I won't be using the meter. But I also don't practice shooting and would hate to have to.

Getting a feel for releasing the button at the top of a jump never seemed difficult to me. I probably wouldn't play if it did.

I'd prefer shot ratings & shot quality play more of a factor than button timing. Did they mention how much each factors in? I'm trusting Da Czar helped them get a good balance.
 
# 220 stillfeelme @ 08/21/14 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BezO
I won't be using the meter. But I also don't practice shooting and would hate to have to.

Getting a feel for releasing the button at the top of a jump never seemed difficult to me. I probably wouldn't play if it did.

I'd prefer shot ratings & shot quality play more of a factor than button timing. Did they mention how much each factors in? I'm trusting Da Czar helped them get a good balance.
Beluba didn't mention how much a factor it would be as far as shot release but he said it is more than 2K14. How do you know the hot spots, cold spots, if you don't practice? The bottom line is if you are good at learning perfect shot timing you will have no problem keeping everything off. The only difference I see in 2k15:

  • Guys who jump high will not necessarily have a wider release window. I can already see this for Westbrook and Wiggins having smaller windows for certain areas of the court and they jump high on jumpers.
  • Places on the court you shoot better from you are not going to be penalized that much if you don't time the release perfectly, on the flip side is places you don't shoot well you have less margin for error on the release. The release arc meter changes dynamically from wide to narrow as you move from in your range or out of your range.
  • Having the meter on essentially is like having hot and cold spots on just in case you forget.
 


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