NBA Live 18 News Post

NBA Live 18 Videos Released

01:03 PM - May 24, 2017 by Rockie_Fresh88

Some of the more popular YouTubers were invited to attend a private NBA Live 18 party and posted some quick videos. For the most part, they are video blogs on their experience at the event, along with a few glimpses of action.

We will probably see a few more trickle in throughout the week, so keep your eyes open, as we wait for more announcements leading up to EA Play in June.

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Game: NBA Live 18Hype Score: 8.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS4 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 2 - View All

Member Comments

# 181 TreJayMMA @ 06/01/17 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noshun


	Nemesis if this is directed to me, I'll take the bait. I've done more than you think. I went to school for game design at DigiPen. I've worked for Nintendo of America, Microsoft Game Studios, and EA as a QA Tester. I was specifically put on Live for a few years. I've also emailed the CEO of EA Canada at the the time David Gardner, as well as a few devs working on the game a week later when Live was being produced there. I've been there at the EA campus in Burnabya few times, because I lived in North Van at the time, taking Graphic Design at Capilano College, and knew people that worked there and they knew my background. I've had EA devs/CM PM me directly on these forums because of that email, asking me about it and telling me how the CEO made the whole Live team read it. The only thing I didn't disclose was that I was testing the game or I would've been easily singled out. I can tell you of the time I submitted a notebook about 50 pages deep with issues, directly to the devs only to get a thank you note back stating "thank you for pointing out these issues, but these weren't what we were looking for at that time." I can tell you about NBA live 07 still using Genesis code called AI94, 2 gaming generations later, did you know that? I saw the code myself with a programmer buddy who decompiled 07 and a Genesis cartridge, the main reason I wanted to learn code, on top of being an animator. I've done more than you think. Have you done anything close to what I wrote in any capacity whatsoever? Guess what WTF (Will and a few others on this very forum can confirm everything Im telling you. But I don't know what I'm talking about? [emoji38]. I sent them things you haven't seen or heard. I know plenty of people in the industry at a few companies including 2k and keep in contact with them from time to time. So when I see quotes like this, I can only shake my head: I'm not going to name who wrote this, but it's from a few pages back. this is SLA mentality. Im not saying he's one, its just the mentally in this forum. READ that quote. 1. This person wants stiff movement all day, with an if?. 2. How can a person settle for stiff movement, but wants all the other issues fixed? Does that even make sense? This person wants everything else fixed, excluding the stiff movement. Why not just fix everything? 3. How can you have good gameplay with still having stiff movement? Movement affects the gameplay. Its a never ending cycle of mediocrity, and settling. Please respond, and make it good. Not that I need validation, but whatever.. I still have more to talk about, just barely touched the surface..

I agree with everything you said.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

# 182 Crunky @ 06/01/17 10:54 AM

EA Developers please introduce a speed slider like the competition has so we can have fast explosive gameplay. This may get rid of the stiff animations and movement.

# 183 jmarcguy @ 06/01/17 11:12 AM

I remember one year in when PS1 first came out I bought Live, NBA in the Zone, & NBA Shootout. I love 2k but I love having options! I hope this game is solid.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

# 184 Hellquist @ 06/01/17 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadert


	You're wasting your time. Some guys just won't get it. Not after embarrassing sales, not after low reviews, not after obscurity, etc. Some people will continue to get excited over very barebones stuff and think that Live will be making a comeback. The common response is that its "your opinion". Yeah, and 5 million others that chose to buy ANOTHER game that also has many flaws. Thats a pretty strong opinion.

You or others aren't going to tell me what to buy or what to like. I like what I see with Live 18. I don't care about reviews, sales, etc. It's irrelevant. The point of a video game is to have fun, relieve stress, play with friends, etc. If I get what I want personally, why should I care about what you guys think? Some people have higher standards. Some people don't need bells and whistles to make them happy. Some have unrealistic expectations. I want a fun game and I feel this game will be. We will see on June 10 how this game is, so I think its best we hold back until we get more footage.

# 185 FerdBrown @ 06/01/17 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellquist


	You or others aren't going to tell me what to buy or what to like. I like what I see with Live 18. I don't care about reviews, sales, etc. It's irrelevant. The point of a video game is to have fun, relieve stress, play with friends, etc. If I get what I want personally, why should I care about what you guys think? Some people have higher standards. Some people don't need bells and whistles to make them happy. Some have unrealistic expectations. I want a fun game and I feel this game will be. We will see on June 10 how this game is, so I think its best we hold back until we get more footage.

Very well said.

# 186 WTF @ 06/01/17 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigeastbumrush


	We're smarter than this. A marketing department slaps lipstick on a pig meaning they take from what will draw the most attention and publish it for the masses. They would never intentionally release bad footage. Let's face it..this was the best stuff they could find. I don't care how many carryover animations they scrap. It won't be enough because that sig animation of Harden is what they chose to feature...and it looks like crap. New tech means absolutely nothing if it cannot animate fluidly. You cannot hide animations when there are only 10 players on a court. What is the point of releasing yet another game that can't even get the barebones right? And who are the yes men working there telling each other that this nonsense is acceptable in 2017?

To each their own, but the marketing for Live hadn't been there for years. I could capture things that equal or surpass these clips in Live 15 or 16 given time. And definitely Live 18.

I've Harped on animations, I've Harped on the basic fundamentals, I've harped on features, etc. I've been a consistent critic of the game every time my hands were on the game, but for each time I've shared my voice or cojcern, another voice praises the very things I critique. These clips are a prime example. I don't like some of what I see (and had voiced that with respect to some of the animations earlier), but I've gotten a ton of dm's since it released telling me how awesome they think it looks. I don't know, personally.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. And I can remember enough animations and situations that played out the last time I was down that would have far outweighed these clips in my mind. I can think of a handful of oh crap moments that I wish I could've shared that looked oh so good, But unfortunately I'm not capturing footage for marketing.

I get you though, trust me, I do.

# 187 noshun @ 06/01/17 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF


	To each their own, but the marketing for Live hadn't been there for years. I could capture things that equal or surpass these clips in Live 15 or 16 given time. And definitely Live 18. I've Harped on animations, I've Harped on the basic fundamentals, I've harped on features, etc. I've been a consistent critic of the game every time my hands were on the game, *but for each time I've shared my voice or cojcern, another voice praises the very things I critique.* These clips are a prime example. I don't like some of what I see (and had voiced that with respect to some of the animations earlier), but I've gotten a ton of dm's since it released telling me how awesome they think it looks. I don't know, personally. Different strokes for different folks I guess. And I can remember enough animations and situations that played out the last time I was down that would have far outweighed these clips in my mind. I can think of a handful of oh crap moments that I wish I could've shared that looked oh so good, But unfortunately I'm not capturing footage for marketing. I get you though, trust me, I do.

Will this is the very thing you and I talk about. The devs think it looks good because you got the SLA mentality running around in these forums that don't provide feedback. You can spot it easily. They provide no feedback on what they don't like or like. Its all "yes man" mindsets.

Just look at the examples. You got guys posting about, "no one is gonna tell me what to like or don't like." Or " you cant tell me what to buy or don't buy." Notice how no one on the forums brought that up except them. They didn't say 1 word on the issues, because they don't give feedback. Theyre drawing straws trying to come up with something to resemble a rebuttal, its so weak.. They can buy and like whatever they want. No dispute from me there. I'm all about addressing legacy issues, and from what I highlighted Will, I just don't get why the devs don't get that it looks bad at times. Real head scratcher there.

One guy wanted to call me a Live h a t e r, but due to the fact I've listed the things I've seen and done to try to get the issues fixed, he hasn't responded. Its was all B-Rabbit vs Papa Doc, and Im still waiting for Zak or Nemesis to respond. But I know they wont, don't have a leg to stand on. I have tickets to the June event, not sure if I can make it or not. If that was EA's best effort to release footage of spactic animations with mocap, this game is gonna be another Live bargin bin filler.

Its why the devs who work in a bubble, end up posting blogs not understanding the reactions to the game. Its sad man. Who is really gonna care about WNBA being in the game. That's just a ploy to try to get females gamer purchases. Not saying that it isn't a good idea to add new modes like that or Drew League, but if the game move like players trying to play basketball on skates and crutches, will any of those modes matter?
This is Lives last game, calling it now. I may be wrong, but my gut says this it the end..

# 188 Kazin @ 06/01/17 10:16 PM

noshun to answer question 3 in your previous post, "How can you have stiff movement and good gameplay?"

Well, with today's technology there are limitations to the animation system. You either commit to a static animation which may look good but will be slower to break out of or lock you in entirely. OR have something more dynamic which can react quicker to player input but will result in the animation looking jerky.

What ISN'T acceptable is to have stiff animations in a marketing video, where they can use and abuse camera angles all day to make something look good.

I have always liked this dude ThaLiveKing's Live videos on YouTube way more than what the EA marketing team puts out. And he is doing his with real game footage and not all the fancy marketing video tools the Live team owns.

Anyway, I believe Live is committed to having the game "feel" right, and get the player in the right position facing the right angles and responding the way they should to inputs, and THEN making the animations fit that mold. The problem is, they've taken this approach and always failed to deliver on a strong gameplay experience, which is no bueno.

This is their big push. You are right it may be the last Live if it doesn't sell. And even if it does sell, I think the deal 2K struck with the NBA for eSports really puts a modest size nail in Live's coffin. We'll see how that plays out though.

# 189 TecmoZack @ 06/01/17 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noshun


	Will this is the very thing you and I talk about. The devs think it looks good because you got the SLA mentality running around in these forums that don't provide feedback. You can spot it easily. They provide no feedback on what they don't like or like. Its all "yes man" mindsets. Just look at the examples. You got guys posting about, "no one is gonna tell me what to like or don't like." Or " you cant tell me what to buy or don't buy." Notice how no one on the forums brought that up except them. They didn't say 1 word on the issues, because they don't give feedback. Theyre drawing straws trying to come up with something to resemble a rebuttal, its so weak.. They can buy and like whatever they want. No dispute from me there. I'm all about addressing legacy issues, and from what I highlighted Will, I just don't get why the devs don't get that it looks bad at times. Real head scratcher there. One guy wanted to call me a Live h a t e r, but due to the fact I've listed the things I've seen and done to try to get the issues fixed, he hasn't responded. Its was all B-Rabbit vs Papa Doc, and Im still waiting for Zak or Nemesis to respond. But I know they wont, don't have a leg to stand on. I have tickets to the June event, not sure if I can make it or not. If that was EA's best effort to release footage of spactic animations with mocap, this game is gonna be another Live bargin bin filler. Its why the devs who work in a bubble, end up posting blogs not understanding the reactions to the game. Its sad man. Who is really gonna care about WNBA being in the game. That's just a ploy to try to get females gamer purchases. Not saying that it isn't a good idea to add new modes like that or Drew League, but if the game move like players trying to play basketball on skates and crutches, will any of those modes matter? This is Lives last game, calling it now. I may be wrong, but my gut says this it the end..

????? I've responded. I like Live 16. Don't have a problem with it. I'm excited for 18. Am I supposed to hate on something I don't hate?

I'm really confused man. Cool story tho.

Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

# 190 PVarck31 @ 06/02/17 03:30 AM

There were things from the videos that didn't look good, but, in my personal opinion (if I'm allowed to have one) I thought some things did look good.

I am going to reserve my opinion until I see pure gameplay.

Some of the things WTF said that are gonna be in the game are very intriguing.

For our own sanity, before jumping off a cliff I would suggest that maybe wait until we see pure gameplay.

If it looks like garbage then fine, unload on EA. (constructively)

# 191 FerdBrown @ 06/02/17 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PVarck31


	There were things from the videos that didn't look good, but, in my personal opinion (if I'm allowed to have one) I thought some things did look good. I am going to reserve my opinion until I see pure gameplay. Some of the things WTF said that are gonna be in the game are very intriguing. For our own sanity, before jumping off a cliff I would suggest that maybe wait until we see pure gameplay. If it looks like garbage then fine, unload on EA. (constructively)

Agree on all points. Hold judgment until we see the final product.

# 192 strawberryshortcake @ 06/02/17 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazin


	noshun to answer question 3 in your previous post, "How can you have stiff movement and good gameplay?" Well, with today's technology there are limitations to the animation system. You either commit to a static animation which may look good but will be slower to break out of or lock you in entirely. OR have something more dynamic which can react quicker to player input but will result in the animation looking jerky. Spoiler What ISN'T acceptable is to have stiff animations in a marketing video, where they can use and abuse camera angles all day to make something look good. I have always liked this dude ThaLiveKing's Live videos on YouTube way more than what the EA marketing team puts out. And he is doing his with real game footage and not all the fancy marketing video tools the Live team owns. Anyway, I believe Live is committed to having the game "feel" right, and get the player in the right position facing the right angles and responding the way they should to inputs, and THEN making the animations fit that mold. The problem is, they've taken this approach and always failed to deliver on a strong gameplay experience, which is no bueno. This is their big push. You are right it may be the last Live if it doesn't sell. And even if it does sell, I think the deal 2K struck with the NBA for eSports really puts a modest size nail in Live's coffin. We'll see how that plays out though.

Then why is it that my favorite baseball games (Pro Yakyuu Spirits, Jikkyou Powerful Pros) has much more realistic animations, smoother animations, and better response to user input than MLB the Show? The throwing angle to first, second, third base, and home plate are different. If I wanted to break free from throwing to first base and instead throw to any other plate just for the sake of doing it despite it not being the correct play, the animation plays out realistically, smooth and response to user input is immediate.

My guess is the limitations are based on how many transitional animations the animators are willing to create. Pose A to Pose B. If the animator choose to take a shortcut and create a total of #3 transitions and call it a wrap, then that's what you're going to get. If the animator chooses to create a total of #10 potential transitional outcomes from Pose A to Pose B, then there will be greater variety.

But what's stopping the animators from creating a smooth realistic animation with just transition #1 from Pose A to Pose B.

To be a bit more specific, the players don't move with explosiveness when driving the paint is one major concern that I see with the trailer. The only realistic explosiveness captured was the Harden step back.

# 193 FerdBrown @ 06/02/17 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake


	Then why is it that my favorite baseball games (Pro Yakyuu Spirits, Jikkyou Powerful Pros) has much more realistic animations, smoother animations, and better response to user input than MLB the Show? The throwing angle to first, second, third base, and home plate are different. If I wanted to break free from throwing to first base and instead throw to any other plate just for the sake of doing it despite it not being the correct play, the animation plays out realistically, smooth and response to user input is immediate. My guess is the limitations are based on how many transitional animations the animators are willing to create. Pose A to Pose B. If the animator choose to take a shortcut and create a total of #3 transitions and call it a wrap, then that's what you're going to get. If the animator chooses to create a total of #10 potential transitional outcomes from Pose A to Pose B, then there will be greater variety. But what's stopping the animators from creating a smooth realistic animation with just transition #1 from Pose A to Pose B. To be a bit more specific, the players don't move with explosiveness when driving the paint is one major concern that I see with the trailer. The only realistic explosiveness captured was the Harden step back.

Ok. I admit I'm not a techie. I just buy a game I want to buy. I'm just a... consumer.

Salute to your technical expertise guys on how the game should he developed. I'm sorry I cannot add value to that discussion.

# 194 noshun @ 06/02/17 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazin


	noshun to answer question 3 in your previous post, "How can you have stiff movement and good gameplay?" Well, with today's technology there are limitations to the animation system. You either commit to a static animation which may look good but will be slower to break out of or lock you in entirely. OR have something more dynamic which can react quicker to player input but will result in the animation looking jerky. What ISN'T acceptable is to have stiff animations in a marketing video, where they can use and abuse camera angles all day to make something look good. I have always liked this dude ThaLiveKing's Live videos on YouTube way more than what the EA marketing team puts out. And he is doing his with real game footage and not all the fancy marketing video tools the Live team owns. Anyway, I believe Live is committed to having the game "feel" right, and get the player in the right position facing the right angles and responding the way they should to inputs, and THEN making the animations fit that mold. The problem is, they've taken this approach and always failed to deliver on a strong gameplay experience, which is no bueno. This is their big push. You are right it may be the last Live if it doesn't sell. And even if it does sell, I think the deal 2K struck with the NBA for eSports really puts a modest size nail in Live's coffin. We'll see how that plays out though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake


	Then why is it that my favorite baseball games (Pro Yakyuu Spirits, Jikkyou Powerful Pros) has much more realistic animations, smoother animations, and better response to user input than MLB the Show? The throwing angle to first, second, third base, and home plate are different. If I wanted to break free from throwing to first base and instead throw to any other plate just for the sake of doing it despite it not being the correct play, the animation plays out realistically, smooth and response to user input is immediate. My guess is the limitations are based on how many transitional animations the animators are willing to create. Pose A to Pose B. If the animator choose to take a shortcut and create a total of #3 transitions and call it a wrap, then that's what you're going to get. If the animator chooses to create a total of #10 potential transitional outcomes from Pose A to Pose B, then there will be greater variety. But what's stopping the animators from creating a smooth realistic animation with just transition #1 from Pose A to Pose B. To be a bit more specific, the players don't move with explosiveness when driving the paint is one major concern that I see with the trailer. The only realistic explosiveness captured was the Harden step back.

I animate, so I know what you're referring too. There's 2 things to animation:

1. Keyframes
2. In-betweens

What EA does is allow you to trigger the next keyframe to a new animation instead of letting the inbetween play out. It creates a "popping" effect and looks bad.
For those that don't understand its the equivalent of taking a soft cover book and randomly putting 2 pieces of paper in the book and then flipping the pages with your thumb. When you view it and see the 2 papers, it looks out of place creating that pop you see.
That's what I see in that Harden step back, but Live devs thinks it looks amazing. 2 years off and they're still cutting corners on the animation end, then they're going to try to blend mocap with it. Disney, Pixar or any other studio that specializes in animation would've redone the animations completely, removed them, or let go of the animators. Its dispelling believable human movement..

# 195 FerdBrown @ 06/02/17 02:10 PM

If you compare with Pixar, hands down and feet up their works are flawless. Though wondering if those same animation engines be used for games? It would look like a cinematic game. Which is also good.

# 196 strawberryshortcake @ 06/02/17 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noshun


	I animate, so I know what you're referring too. There's 2 things to animation: 1. Keyframes 2. In-betweens What EA does is allow you to trigger the next keyframe to a new animation instead of letting the inbetween play out. It creates a "popping" effect and looks bad. Spoiler For those that don't understand its the equivalent of taking a soft cover book and randomly putting 2 pieces of paper in the book and then flipping the pages with your thumb. When you view it and see the 2 papers, it looks out of place creating that pop you see. That's what I see in that Harden step back, but Live devs thinks it looks amazing. 2 years off and they're still cutting corners on the animation end, then they're going to try to blend mocap with it. Disney, Pixar or any other studio that specializes in animation would've redone the animations completely, removed them, or let go of the animators. Its dispelling believable human movement..

Spoiler

Yes, those are the two words that completely slipped my mind ... key frames and in betweens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FerdBrown


	If you compare with Pixar, hands down and feet up their works are flawless. Though wondering if those same animation engines be used for games? It would look like a cinematic game. Which is also good.

From my understanding, it really doesn't have anything to do with the "animation engine" so to speak. It all boils down to the animators themselves. How the animation plays out all stems from what the animators do.

Blender is a free 3D animation program, open source, for anyone to use. Maya is the professional version. Pixar uses their own proprietary 3D animation software but the fundamentals are all the same.

Run any 3d animated shorts on youtube and you can see the different level of quality, some very amateurish and some very professional looking ones.

The following three shorts are all done in Blender (completely free to download and use). Run a youtube search for other blender animated works.

Laundromat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drLdsOnh7nI&t=216s

Agent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN0zPOpADL4

Psychogenesis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzjQuFrlnU4

# 197 strawberryshortcake @ 06/02/17 02:56 PM

Darn youtube embed, how do I delete the embed. It's messing up the website.

EDIT: Alright, finally fixed the above. Removed the embedded video and just went with direct youtube links.

# 198 FerdBrown @ 06/02/17 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake


	Darn youtube embed, how do I delete the embed. It's messing up the website.

I can't open your links, mate.

# 199 strawberryshortcake @ 06/02/17 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FerdBrown


	I can't open your links, mate.

Stupid youtube links and embedding messes things up. I'm trying to edit my above post and can't hit the edit button because the youtube video is taking up the entire screen. Here are the links:

All three are created solely using blender. Last one has poor animations. It basically all comes down to the animator rather than just the software. Pixar uses their own proprietary 3D animation software while most other companies uses the professional grade annual subscription Maya (which was once available to purchase as a non-subscription based software). I think Pixar still may sort of partly use the software Maya as well.

Blender free download - 3d animation software.
https://www.blender.org/

The stuff on youtube done in Blender from amateurs doesn't look that great because usually it's individuals who haven't gone through animation training uses because it's completely free. Most animation students uses Maya. But the process of creating animation is still the same, using keyframes, in betweens, etc.

Laundromat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drLdsOnh7nI&t=216s

Agent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN0zPOpADL4

Psychogenesis (poorly done animations, still commendable for being only a one man work, but requires a lot of refinement, and simply overall reworking of the animations).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzjQuFrlnU4

EDIT #1: In addition to kind of get an understanding or sense of what it would require to "polish" or "refine" animations, run a search on youtube for "animation mentor animation feedback" or something like that.

Example:
11 Second Club: "Psych" Animation Feedback -- April 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d7ZZUIsryw

11 Second Club: Stewart Animation Feedback -- June 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGCvJwCX3ks

EDIT #2:
Here's another example where the animations is poorly done. Still commendable because 3D animation is time consuming and difficult
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMjfAOkUR58

One of the very important concepts to get across and deliver in anyone's animations is "weight."

3D Animation Weight Pull/Push
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bklPD7U9XIw

Bottom line: It all comes down to the animator, rather than the animation software because all the animation software basically uses the same exact "fundamentals" to create the animation .... "Keyframes" and "inbetweens" including "spacing" and "timing."

Look up 12 principles of animations for reference. Even though one may have an understanding for all 12 principles, trying to execute those 12 principles in a sense determines your ability as an animator to a certain extent.

12 Principles of Animation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDqjIdI4bF4

EDIT #3: Here's an animation done in Maya - the professional grade 3d Animation software where the animation unfortunately looks very amateurish.

Funny 3D Animation Farmer Johns Bad Day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XhFpMMPy5s

It basically comes down to the animator and what they can do. You can create a terrible product with a great software.

# 200 binga30 @ 06/04/17 04:55 AM

NBA Live in the 90s was dope, how did they fall down so much? Did all the EA guys go work for 2K? You'd think after how good Fifa is, this game should be amazing also.

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