NBA 2K16 News Post

Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100% - More Details From Mike Wang

10:37 AM - August 11, 2015 by Steve_OS

Mike Wang, Gameplay Director for NBA 2K16 mentioned on Twitter that green releases are much rarer in NBA 2K16 and they will no longer be 100%.

He also mentions the following (in post #22):

Quote:


	There have been battles even internally over missed green releases, especially now that they're so hard to get. I really think it's an unsolvable problem. The best news I can give you is that our shots engineer has made just about every knob I use to tune shooting modifiable on the server side post release just like a roster update. So if there's something the community isn't happy with I can tweak the system and update your games without the need for a patch. So what happened with patch 4 last year will never happen again.

UPDATE: Mike has chimed in on this topic with more details, to clear up any confusion (post #211)

Quote:


	Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway... I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots. For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots. Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally. And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want. Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

He also added this on Twitter...

Quote:


	New Shot Meter option for #NBA2K16 called "Feedback Only." Meter won't draw while shooting, only after release to show how close you were.

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Member Comments

# 201 stillfeelme @ 08/13/15 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	I thought this was implied. The player's shot rating is the base that we work from. So if you have a bum who can't throw it in the ocean, you can pretty much gap off the guy and he still won't be a threat. The problem last year was all the modifiers that were tacked on last year (shot timing bonus, openness, etc) overpowered the base ratings. That's no longer the case this year. Also we did a much better job at syncing up the shot ratings to what real life percentages should map to. The ratings didn't translate very well to real life numbers in 2k15.

Beluba I first read your post and I couldn't really tell whether you answered this. I guess you didn't really say but it can be implied depending on how your interpret this post.

Is there an actual connection for perfect release success to actual rating, consistency, etc or is the success rate a fixed % once you hit green perfect release?

# 202 Beluba @ 08/13/15 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostpured


	For people who don't like the shot meter and disable it, will there be something to indicate after the release to know how far/ close the timing was to excellent? The current slightly late/ slightly early is too vague. Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk

Shot Feedback is still an option, which prints the grade and timing text. We also added a new Shot Meter option called "Feedback Only". If you choose that, the shot meter won't draw while you're in the act of shooting but after you release the ball, the meter will show up to show you how far off you were from the ideal release point.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

# 203 Beluba @ 08/13/15 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillfeelme


	Beluba I first read your post and I couldn't really tell whether you answered this. I guess you didn't really say but it can be implied depending on how your interpret this post. Is there an actual connection for perfect release success to actual rating, consistency, etc or is the success rate a fixed % once you hit green perfect release?

It's not a fixed percentage for all greens. The shot timing modifier is a sliding scale that multiplies the shot percentage. So if you get perfect timing, you get the max multiplier; if you get worst timing, you get the worst multiplier; and we scale between those if you're somewhere in the middle. The multipliers vary based on difficulty, offline vs online and other factors. But the end result is, some greens might be 60% while others might be 95%. That's a simplified explanation but hope it answers your question.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

# 204 ruLEX$$ @ 08/13/15 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	It's not a fixed percentage for all greens. The shot timing modifier is a sliding scale that multiplies the shot percentage. So if you get perfect timing, you get the max multiplier; if you get worst timing, you get the worst multiplier; and we scale between those if you're somewhere in the middle. The multipliers vary based on difficulty, offline vs online and other factors. But the end result is, some greens might be 60% while others might be 95%. That's a simplified explanation but hope it answers your question. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

great answer thank you for the clarification

# 205 mostpured @ 08/13/15 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Shot Feedback is still an option, which prints the grade and timing text. We also added a new Shot Meter option called "Feedback Only". If you choose that, the shot meter won't draw while you're in the act of shooting but after you release the ball, the meter will show up to show you how far off you were from the ideal release point. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for the reply. Fantastic news for me! Preording tomorrow

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk

# 206 stillfeelme @ 08/13/15 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	It's not a fixed percentage for all greens. The shot timing modifier is a sliding scale that multiplies the shot percentage. So if you get perfect timing, you get the max multiplier; if you get worst timing, you get the worst multiplier; and we scale between those if you're somewhere in the middle. The multipliers vary based on difficulty, offline vs online and other factors. But the end result is, some greens might be 60% while others might be 95%. That's a simplified explanation but hope it answers your question. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks man yes that explains pretty much all my questions. Yep I get it now. Looking forward to see this and glad you guys can tweak it without a patch. Describes it well it is somewhere between 14 and 15 shooting systems.

2K16 is part user skill with the timing of perfect release but not 100% success
Contested shots can't get a perfect release so the quality has an impact
Non shooters will be unable to achieve a perfect release
Shooting multiplier is tied to difficulty and online vs. offline I guess for lag

# 207 stillfeelme @ 08/13/15 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Shot Feedback is still an option, which prints the grade and timing text. We also added a new Shot Meter option called "Feedback Only". If you choose that, the shot meter won't draw while you're in the act of shooting but after you release the ball, the meter will show up to show you how far off you were from the ideal release point. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Nice we are getting some nice shot feedback goodies

# 208 Brokedan @ 08/13/15 02:31 AM

What are the difficulty settings in MyPark & Pro Am with this news?

Also, can we rotate our player when selecting a jumpshot, to better see the release. peace.

# 209 2_headedmonster @ 08/13/15 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Shot Feedback is still an option, which prints the grade and timing text. We also added a new Shot Meter option called "Feedback Only". If you choose that, the shot meter won't draw while you're in the act of shooting but after you release the ball, the meter will show up to show you how far off you were from the ideal release point. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Please, PLEASE heavily consider making this setting the default for Superstar and above.

# 210 shayellis @ 08/13/15 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brokedan


	What are the difficulty settings in MyPark & Pro Am with this news? Also, can rotate our player when selecting a jumpshot, to better see the release. peace.

this.......

# 211 2_headedmonster @ 08/13/15 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless.

Thats interesting, because in the thread explaining the shot meter before 2k15's release, something was said to the contrary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leftos


	A perfect release doesn't magically mean the player can actually make that shot. I can release that scrap of paper perfectly any time from my desk, still can't make the trash can 4 feet away.

# 212 Pokes404 @ 08/13/15 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	We also added a new Shot Meter option called "Feedback Only". If you choose that, the shot meter won't draw while you're in the act of shooting but after you release the ball, the meter will show up to show you how far off you were from the ideal release point. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Beautiful! That's exactly how I used the meter in 2K15. Turning this on in the options will be the first thing I do when I boot up 2K16.

# 213 alabamarob @ 08/13/15 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amedawg00


	Can't tell you how much it means for the community to have this level of access and interaction with the individuals that create this masterpiece year in year out. I had more 60%+ shooting while playing 12 min hof sim games on 15 than the previous 10 iterations combined. The pendulum swung from what was once a brutal grindfest where both open and contested shots hardly fell; largely the result of "glitched" shots which saw the majority of players unable to achieve a perfect release; to a game where every player regardless of rating was a threat from mid and 3 post patch 4; largely the result of the fix for the aforementioned "glitched" shots coupled with the open bonuses that resulted in unrealistically sky high shooting percentages for skilled users even on the highest difficultly. 2k15 was truly a jekyll and Hyde experience in the sense that the game played wildly differently pre and post patch 4. I was thrilled to hear the shot engineers have now made it possible to fine tune these issues without patches going forward! Overall, it sounds to me as if the ability to strategize on defense with the deep settings based on the opponents personnel (who to gap, tight, deny, etc) and impacting the game if applied correctly will be well represented in 16. All things considered 15 was still the best gameplay user v user since 2k11 imo. With all due respect to total and complete masterpiece of a franchise that is 2k, it will always be the stellar gameplay that continues to evolve with each iteration that keeps the replay value infinite for me at least. Anyways, thanks for the clarification. I eagerly await the chess match of offensive and defensive strategies matching wits again in 16.

Great post homeboy. 15 was an excellent game outside of the shooting issues pre and post patch 4. It will be good to go back to shooting being a valued skill that not every player has.

# 214 Rockie_Fresh88 @ 08/13/15 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	I thought this was implied. The player's shot rating is the base that we work from. So if you have a bum who can't throw it in the ocean, you can pretty much gap off the guy and he still won't be a threat. The problem last year was all the modifiers that were tacked on last year (shot timing bonus, openness, etc) overpowered the base ratings. That's no longer the case this year. Also we did a much better job at syncing up the shot ratings to what real life percentages should map to. The ratings didn't translate very well to real life numbers in 2k15.

Thank you for clearing that up !!! So the base shots were overpowered but I'm glad you guys got a nice fix

# 215 Sundown @ 08/13/15 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bo.jangles344


	If we're really going to do the steph curry argument, can we please wait till he's 10 years in his career before we honestly start comparing him? Reggie Miller is still the best off the dribble shooter of all time in my opinion. Why? Because he'd drain one in your face and then lock you up at the other end, get a steal, and pop another 3 in transition. He's a great shooter, could be the best ever. But that's just because there's no sure way to defend him since you're constantly getting picked and someone is always open. There's no magical reason he made so many shots this year, it's mostly scheme and being at the right place at the right time.

Steph is entering his 7th year, won an MVP, and a championship. He broke the 3 point record twice and smashed Reggie's post season record by almost twice the makes.

No, it's not too early to compare him to others. He won a ring as the offensive engine doing something folks have speculated he might be the greatest ever at for long enough.

What you described Reggie doing I pretty much witnessed Curry doing live. Well he didn't hit a three right before he stole one and hit another in transition. He did hit 4 other threes in the span of those six minutes though, two of which were also off the dribble.

And it's not just schemes. Those would be some magical schemes if Curry is only leading the league and breaking records because of some pick and rolls. He's been making volume with high accuracy his entire career. It's not just schemes. There's no way to defend Steph not just because you're getting picked and he can hit the shot off a screen or drive-- but he's able pull up in isolation as well, which is why Curry wrecks defensive schemes by forcing them to trap and double team at the perimeter.

Curry is a stupid accurate GOAT volume three point shooter. The schemes the Warriors run are because of that-- they don't account for his greatness any more than Jordan was simply in the right place and time because of the triangle, or Stockton and Malone rode on the coattails of the pick and roll. And you do realize that Curry played his lowest minutes per season ever since he became the main guy this year? He achieved his numbers playing very low 4th quarter minutes for a starter, often missing them entirely because he drove his team to another blowout.

A few more years of Curry doing what he's been his entire career wouldn't tell us much that we don't already know. And his years where he hasn't been insane volume wise (but still extremely accurate) were all accountable due to shortened seasons, injury, or shorter rookie minutes.

# 216 Chemthethriller @ 08/13/15 10:48 AM

Beluba,

The problem I see online after about 1,500 games in rec/park is not that people consistently drain contested shots (close to them, right stick defense) but more so a stepback dribble move seems to tell the coding that he has created space, and that for the next split second he is wide open, even when he isn't.

A great example of this, is players who run to the corner and do a stepback and knock down shot after shot after shot, even when you know they are going there and have very good defense.

Dribble moves in this game in general seem to be overpowered, yes you can catch a person that isn't too good with charges here and there, but overall the ones that know how to chain dribble moves own the court. Everyone seems to play like Allen Iverson at his peak performance every, but they do this every trip down the court of every game.

Catch and shoot open shots seem like they should always have a higher percentage to drop then anything coming off of a dribble. There is a reason that the vast majority of great 3pt shooters or clutch 3pt shooters are off the ball catch and shoot (Kerr, Korver, Horry, Paxton, Post seattle Allen, etc)

# 217 blues rocker @ 08/13/15 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway... I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots. For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots. Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally. And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want. Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

Thanks for finally settling this shot meter issue once and for all. I was tired of everyone acting like the shot meter was the CAUSE of the 100%-success-on-green-releases issue...when in reality, the 100%-success-for-green-releases was simply a RULE that could be removed independently of the shot meter itself - for some reason people could not grasp that concept...so people were calling for complete removal of the shot meter because they thought that was the only way to fix the 100%-success problem. talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I love the shot meter - it's a great visual feedback tool for learning releases.

# 218 Sundown @ 08/13/15 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Shot Feedback is still an option, which prints the grade and timing text. We also added a new Shot Meter option called "Feedback Only". If you choose that, the shot meter won't draw while you're in the act of shooting but after you release the ball, the meter will show up to show you how far off you were from the ideal release point.

This is fantastic. I've always thought this should maybe be how the meter worked, especially when it tended to ruin the suspension of making a big shot. I didn't think the change would actually happen for that reason because it seems like a minor complaint for something already functional (though a big one for an immersion junkie like me). Great to see whether it was for that reason (a sentiment LD2K echoed) or because some just felt it distracting.

I'll play around with the default now that greens aren't a sure thing and could be as low as 60%, but if it kills the drama for me, I'll certainly use this setting.

# 219 Sundown @ 08/13/15 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally.

If higher shot percentages mean a bigger bonus, would that artificially inflate the accuracy and ease of more accurate shots? Would it mean low boosts for three pointers and higher boosts that are out of proportion for open midrange shots?

Also, I hope being open doesn't cause boosts that are artificially higher than league averages like last year. If I remember correctly, the league average for open shots is actually around 45%, with greatest of all time level players at high 50's. And most shots missed in the NBA are actually open shots.

# 220 Chemthethriller @ 08/13/15 11:22 AM

Beluba,

Also I guess since you're in this thread I'll ask the question that has been asked a million times but I've never seen an answer.

Why weren't demigods patched? Would it have caused too much else to break? Is this a legit reason on why they weren't patched?

I look at other games I've played in the past and if something like this got through on World of Warcraft that made one class extremely overpowered, to the point of almost unbeatable through a glitch, a hotfix would probably have been applied that day, if not the next upcoming tuesday would have gotten it. I understand they are different games, and if fixing this on the way this game was coded it may have meant completely deleting the ability to create a player or something like that, I think the community as a whole just wants an explanation at minimum.

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Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100% - More Details From Mike Wang