NBA 2K16 News Post

Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100% - More Details From Mike Wang

10:37 AM - August 11, 2015 by Steve_OS

Mike Wang, Gameplay Director for NBA 2K16 mentioned on Twitter that green releases are much rarer in NBA 2K16 and they will no longer be 100%.

He also mentions the following (in post #22):

Quote:


	There have been battles even internally over missed green releases, especially now that they're so hard to get. I really think it's an unsolvable problem. The best news I can give you is that our shots engineer has made just about every knob I use to tune shooting modifiable on the server side post release just like a roster update. So if there's something the community isn't happy with I can tweak the system and update your games without the need for a patch. So what happened with patch 4 last year will never happen again.

UPDATE: Mike has chimed in on this topic with more details, to clear up any confusion (post #211)

Quote:


	Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway... I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots. For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots. Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally. And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want. Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

He also added this on Twitter...

Quote:


	New Shot Meter option for #NBA2K16 called "Feedback Only." Meter won't draw while shooting, only after release to show how close you were.

Game: NBA 2K16Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments

# 161 DC @ 08/12/15 12:47 PM

People will cry when things don't go as they THINK they should go. I give it by November 12.

# 162 Boilerbuzz @ 08/12/15 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caelumfang


	Then that's their problem. Green releases should've never been 100% in the first place. I'm quite sure most NBA players know their own shot releases, yet that doesn't ever result in every shot they throw up going in. Green releases should only mean that the user got open and got the shot release correct at its peak in order to set themselves up for the best chance for the shot to fall. That's it.

Which is exactly what it meant until NBA Delete came along and filled people's head with that "skill-based shooting" bullcrap.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

# 163 Jrocc23 @ 08/12/15 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhawkfootball06


	The problem is that these "exploits" you talk about vary from person to person. Highly skilled players who can defend do not consider them exploits. People who can't defend do consider them exploits. For example, I've had messages from people saying I exploit the paint too much. I've had messages from people saying I exploit the three too much. If I pass it down low to Dwight Howard and you immediately jump every single time, of course I'm going to blow past you and get a dunk. If you are leaving Curry wide open every single possession, of course I'm going to shoot a lot of threes with him. People think these are exploits, when instead it's just bad defense on their end.

I agree with most of this. Some people call anything "cheese" or an exploit. It's annoying as hell. Still can't get over "CPU Tony Allen cheese" because the dude passed it to the open CPU player for a layup lol.

But, when it comes to left righting and etc. If that's not "cheese" to you, I would like to know what is to you, on any 2K and I rarely use the word. Because some people feel like if they can't stop something themselves it's automatic cheese or just simply overdo it. But this is not one of those cases. Everyone I've seen has trouble guarding that. Again, everyone I've seen play is having a problem guarding someone moving left to right lol. I mean how silly is that? This would be so simple to guard IRL.

# 164 Boilerbuzz @ 08/12/15 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jrocc23


	Everyone I've seen has trouble guarding that. Again, everyone I've seen play is having a problem guarding someone moving left to right lol. I mean how silly is that? This would be so simple to guard IRL.

And I've seen people guard it just fine. So is it cheese? Yes, it tough, and tougher than RL, but FAR from impossible or rare.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

# 165 Jrocc23 @ 08/12/15 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	And I've seen people guard it just fine. So is it cheese? Yes, it tough, and tougher than RL, but FAR from impossible or rare. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Of course you can stop it sometimes. You could stop the hopstep in 2K11 too sometimes but it was still cheese.

Maybe you seen someone stop it with good team defense or maybe the person doing it wasn't as good. Matter fact, you show me you guarding it just fine. Come to park and I'm going to find someone to zigzag the hell out of you. And I want to watch you contain it. What system you on?

# 166 HowDareI @ 08/12/15 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhawkfootball06


	The problem is that these "exploits" you talk about vary from person to person. Highly skilled players who can defend do not consider them exploits. People who can't defend do consider them exploits. For example, I've had messages from people saying I exploit the paint too much. I've had messages from people saying I exploit the three too much. If I pass it down low to Dwight Howard and you immediately jump every single time, of course I'm going to blow past you and get a dunk. If you are leaving Curry wide open every single possession, of course I'm going to shoot a lot of threes with him. People think these are exploits, when instead it's just bad defense on their end.

No see I never got into them "honor codes" or whatever people do.

Ever play in a league where you can't shoot a certain amount of 3's or score too many points in the paint? I agree that if someone can't stop you then you keep going at them.

I'm talking about this in general:

Zig zag by itself is very guard-able. It's easy to anticipate after a while and getting a hand up works for the most part...not all the time (because of green releases).
But when people chain unlimited hesitations and stepbacks in conjunction with the zig zag base...that's when it becomes an exploit. Because there's certain defensive animations (you don't control) that make you put a hand up or make your guy do a slight hitch when he changes directions, or even sometimes it looks like you slip.
Hell there's been times (because I always use the right stick on D) where my guy never even put his hand up or tried to contest...
Yet the zig zag remains constant and paired with a stepback you get just enough space (with deadeye) to be considered open.

The whole shooting mechanics in that regard are broken. Because a shot after dribbling and doing a stepback should have a much lower percentage of going in. Regardless of how close the defense is.

Most people who exploit stuff like that aren't good, but what happens when they become good at cheesing? Where's the fun, where's the competition in that?

Forget about defense for a second and consider the offense. Like I said after dribbling for 15 seconds straight your shot should be off because of how fatigued you'd be.
A stepback is used to create space, but your legs aren't set for the shot afterwards so again it should be a lower % shot..and if you take the time to set your feet then the D should be right there....this wasn't the case last year.
Zig zagging (crossing over) is the same as dribble moves; it should effect the shot based on how long you've been doing an intense dribble.

Most randoms I see play can guard the zig zag cheese by now, but once they start doing the dribble moves with it is when they become lost. I don't have that problem but regardless I can still recognize it isn't basketball at all and should be nerfed significantly.

This has everything to do with shooting because if you're in an iso situation you need to setup your shot. You should be able to do that with a sizeup dribble and one other quick move. Not 20 seconds of NBA Street. And if that's your approach to the game then 2K hopefully has made a system where contested shots have barely any chance of a green release or where over-dribbling leads to the ball being easier to strip/lose or the shot being a very low %.

# 167 Boilerbuzz @ 08/12/15 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jrocc23


	Of course you can stop it sometimes. You could stop the hopstep in 2K11 too sometimes but it was still cheese. Maybe you seen someone stop it with good team defense or maybe the person doing it wasn't as good. Matter fact, you show me you guarding it just fine. Come to park and I'm going to find someone to zigzag the hell out of you. And I want to watch you contain it. What system you on?

First, I never said I could guard all that well. But when dudes get a pattern going, I can do a good job. And my latency has to be low. You said you seen NO ONE defend it and I say, if you play as much as you claim, you know that's not true.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

# 168 jbthegreat @ 08/12/15 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Djm


	Yea that sounds good Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

I hope Mike Wang and the 2K staff see this post. This method makes the most logical sense.

# 169 Jrocc23 @ 08/12/15 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	First, I never said I could guard all that well. But when dudes get a pattern going, I can do a good job. And my latency has to be low. You said you seen NO ONE defend it and I say, if you play as much as you claim, you know that's not true. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yeah, I pretty much knew the reply before you said anything.

First, I said everyone has trouble defending it. Never said "NO ONE" can defend it. I say if you read my post a little better, you'll know I didn't say that.

# 170 Boilerbuzz @ 08/12/15 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceDawg5


	Very surprised this hasn't really been touched on, but I think the issue is Mike and the team are tweaking shooting globally. When we all know shooting online vs. offline is 100% completely different. I'm a 95% offline player and the few times I did go online I couldn't believe ppl actually play those modes primarily, because it's literally like playing a different game.

Maybe because you're the only one making the assumption that they don't already do this.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

# 171 jbthegreat @ 08/12/15 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svit


	I bet that someone has already suggested that but: What about a system where green release only means player can make a shot only at max of his real %? For example (not actual statistics) - Lebron James - top left 3pt area: - hit 70.2 % of uncontested shots - hit 12,5 % of contested shots The green release for Lebron James in this area only means, that he will hit in 70.2 % when uncontested and only 12.5% if the shot is contested. Maybe we could break down uncontested/contested shots even further... for example: Green Release: - hit 70.2% when uncontested - hit 27.6 % when lightly contested - hit 12,5 % when contested Yellow Release (slightly early/late): - hit 33.4% when uncontested - hit 15.6% when lightly contested - hit 5.5% when contested Red Release (very early/late): - hit 8.5% when uncontested - hit 1.5% when lightly contested - hit 0.05% when contested I think that with such a system we will have a good compromise between user skills and realistic shooting percentage. In order to compete you will have to learn player shooting release, but also you can't except to make trees after threes with green releases with Deandre Jordan... Just my 5 cents...

I hope Mike Wang and the 2K staff see this post. This method makes the most logical sense.

# 172 HowDareI @ 08/12/15 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	First, I never said I could guard all that well. But when dudes get a pattern going, I can do a good job. And my latency has to be low. You said you seen NO ONE defend it and I say, if you play as much as you claim, you know that's not true. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If you see my post above you, I think he was talking about that;

No one can truly guard a 7' or above guy who's doing the zig zag and also a bunch of overpowered stepbacks, hesitations, and crosses.
Once a guy gets good at spamming all that, and learned his jumpshot (which is stupid in it's own right) it's over. No matter how good you play or defend he can still score 8 a game in a 15 point match lol.

Hopefully this means no more "learning shots" so if you get a green you just make everything...that's really what part of the problem is.

# 173 LeBron_On_Mars @ 08/12/15 01:24 PM

I feel like whatever they're doing to the shot meter to make it "Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%" is only to counter what they can't fix with the on ball defense. So that when a ball handler zig zags to get an open shot, then misses the defender feels rewarded majority of the time.

# 174 Jhawkfootball06 @ 08/12/15 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbthegreat


	I hope Mike Wang and the 2K staff see this post. This method makes the most logical sense.

Most logical sense? How many players are notorious for making contested shots? Kobe Bryant for example, especially with his turnaround fade. You really think he makes only 12.5% of his shots?

# 175 Boilerbuzz @ 08/12/15 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jrocc23


	Yeah, I pretty much knew the reply before you said anything.

Then you should use those special abilities and play Lotto. You won't regret it.

Quote:


	First off, I said everyone has trouble defending it. Never said "NO ONE" can defend it. I say if you read my post a little better, you'll know I didn't say that.

We know what you typed, and your message was quite clear. But if you want to backpedal from it now, then the point of your post is weakened. If this is exactly what you meant, then we are actually in agreement about how hard it is to guard. But I don't consider something HARD to do to be cheese.

EDIT: seems we are in agreement. My bad for my initial response.

# 176 jbthegreat @ 08/12/15 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhawkfootball06


	Most logical sense? How many players are notorious for making contested shots? Kobe Bryant for example, especially with his turnaround fade. You really think he makes only 12.5% of his shots?

Did you read the post? Those are not real percentages just examples. The point is KOBE's percentages field goal percentages would matter as well as your release.

# 177 Jhawkfootball06 @ 08/12/15 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbthegreat


	Did you read the post? Those are not real percentages just examples. The point is KOBE's percentages field goal percentages would matter as well as your release.

Ahh missed that. I like it, but don't really know how they would get that information for every single player in the NBA. And how would that play out with created players? For example your MyPlayer.

# 178 jbthegreat @ 08/12/15 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhawkfootball06


	Ahh missed that. I like it, but don't really know how they would get that information for every single player in the NBA. And how would that play out with created players? For example your MyPlayer.

The funny part is they already have it in the game. You can manually select to use real shooting percentages instead of the default method.

# 179 Jhawkfootball06 @ 08/12/15 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbthegreat


	The funny part is they already have it in the game. You can manually select to use real shooting percentages instead of the default method.

But then that takes out any skill in shooting. Any random could pick up the game and start holstering up threes without any knowledge of his form or release and make them. That's a problem.

# 180 Jrocc23 @ 08/12/15 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	Then you should use those special abilities and play Lotto. You won't regret it. We know what you typed, and your message was quite clear. But if you want to backpedal from it now, then the point of your post is weakened. If this is exactly what you meant, then we are actually in agreement about how hard it is to guard. But I don't consider something HARD to do to be cheese. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Obviously you don't. And how are you going to tell me what my message was lol and say I am backpedaling? If I wanted to say it was impossible, I would have. It says directly in the message "has trouble with it." And the point was everyone is having trouble simply guarding someone left to right which shouldn't be the case since you need someone to elaborate a little more for you.

I don't either all the time, but this is one of those cases. What cheese was impossible to stop lol? You make no sense. Was hop stepping, nano blitzes, rocket catches, people with highly successful glitch plays in madden that you could rarely stop and etc not cheese because you could stop it sometimes?

But you are BoilerBuzz and why I usually don't even entertain you. So, I'll stop now.

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