NBA 2K12 News Post

NBA 2K12 Developer Insight #4 - Playcall System

02:01 PM - September 2, 2011 by Steve_OS

Check out today's NBA 2K12 Developer Insight #4 from Gameplay Director, Rob Jones.

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Member Comments

# 221 Spydermaan @ 09/03/11 03:19 PM

Realism or Sim vs Default. The arguement goes on.

# 222 Knickerbocker @ 09/03/11 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2slik


	I don't need to look at it from those other people's views. They lack reading comprehension. They fail to realise that now that the plays are more complex there is less need to save plays. Saving plays was only necessary because so many of the plays in 2k11 are absolute garbage.

Was it? What about people wanting to play their own brand of basketball, their own system and they want to save the playbook because of that?

# 223 iRebound @ 09/03/11 05:01 PM

Hats off to you sir, Da Czar.

This insight just sold it for me. Finally an effective inbound play. This will really help the last second crunch time play.

# 224 NINJAK2 @ 09/03/11 05:28 PM

That was one heck of an insight. So much info to take in my brain is pulsating. I'm gonna have to wait on DaCzar to break that down visually in a video. Everything sounds so in depth. Great job 2k (Atleast on paper it sounds like it...need 2 see it in execution.)

# 225 MVP23 @ 09/03/11 09:10 PM

My question now is. WHERE IS THE DEMO?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

# 226 Da_Czar @ 09/03/11 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goffs


	What I'm interested in seeing is how they actually move now when setting up the play. As smooth and pretty the animations are there are instances where the animation would play out and they end up running in place when someone is on the way. There is no break animation in between so off ball contact animations are needed.

Goffs can you show me some video of what your describing ?

# 227 Da_Czar @ 09/03/11 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcnumba10


	Just wondering if there are different ball carriers up the court now? I remember reading that plays now does not have to start with the PG. So for example does Wade, James and Chambers take turns bringing the ball up for Miami?

Yes although they had this in last year. I like the implementation this year even better. With Wade and James on the floor James will do most of the play initiating. If James subs out Wade and Chalmers split it depending on the play calls ( wade won't initiate plays he finishes).

When Chalmers is on the floor with out either of the big 2 he is the primary ball handler.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcnumba10


	question is that, is the catch and shoot less effective this year? I remember in 2K11 that the cpu ran the same plays for Deng, Carter, Durant and others to catch and shoot after an off-ball screen which was very annoying especially when you are playing against the Bulls since the cpu didn't focus (run as many plays) on utilizing on Rose on offense like they should.

There were a few indirect issues with this. I don't know what the end result will be but when I played last this was not an issue. In 2k11 the 4 play limit really screwed you with your stars or main scorers.

The combination that caused this were too few authentic plays for your main guy. Last year you were forced to have plays for EVERY player on the floor even a guy who may never shoot. So although the plays were authentic they weren't deep enough to allow you to see a guy score in the variety of ways he might.

The cpu was also limited in not knowing playtypes and which one a player should prefer.

The defense was at a supreme disadvantage trying to trail a guy coming off any types of screens due to movement/ animation limitations.

This year you have play types which are ranked in order 1-4. They looked at the AI for calling plays and made sure the AI would have access to and utilize all plays in the playbook.

Think about it. Last year you played 48 minute games ( some of you) with 4 plays and now you can have 1 play type with as many of those types of plays in your playbook. So if you have 20 iso plays and you have a player who is an Iso he has access to all of those AND all of up to 3 more types of plays.

So the play pool has greatly expanded. This means the cpu can have multiple post and iso and pick and roll plays that are only limited by the playbooks.

The defensive movement has also been improved which will cut down on the number of wide open shots wing players will receive.

So from a design standpoint all the major issues with that were addressed. Now the only question is how well was it implemented.

Also when you get the game don't forget we didn't want the cpu to just run away from plays that were working and just have generic play distribution. If you can't stop something then why would we run anything else ?

So there is a delicate balance there and we won't know till you guys get it and play it if went to far or stopped too short. So good quality feedback will definitely be helpful prior to any patches if there are any.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcnumba10


	lastly, how does the cpu utilize their superstars and their own playbook? It was great reading Rob's playcalling system and it sounds terrific for the user to utilize, but it would be all useless if the cpu doesn't utilize it as well as the user. Does the cpu run the entire playbook and gets the user guessing every-time the cpu is on offense? Is the AI smarter? How is the substitution patterns made by the cpu?

The CPU is a BEAST on using their stars. Combine the spacing with the branches and the improved defensive speeds ( no real cheat burst on defense)

Like Dirk is unstoppable. Period. I had Lebron score 17 of his teams 25 points in one quarter against me. Just dominate. So for me on the build I played that was not even an issue. I can't lie I have a HUGE smile anytime I see the cpu correctly use a branch on me as I cheat one of the angles.

It's not perfect though its a first year implementation and I didn't get every idea I had in because of time but I think it represents one hell of a first step into making the cpu more life like and less predictable.

Miles ahead of 2k11 anyway.

# 228 guesswhozbak17 @ 09/03/11 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickerbocker


	All strategies do is change your coaching sliders (and def settings), I'm almost certain. Since on the screenshot with strategies there was the option to set to "Coach default". So I think you can't have both, since leak out most likely ups your fastbreak slider.

If the strategies are linked that way with sliders...then that is perfect

# 229 adwin7 @ 09/03/11 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iLLosophy


	For those who only play online, this is putting the horse before the carriage. Saving plays should be priority #1.

Speak for your self. Man saving plays online is cool but a robust play calling system more than helps me forget about that feature. I think that "play calling is useless without online save" argument should be for another thread as it is irrelevant to this insight.

I play 95 percent online so I know how you feel but it is a little ridiculous to say this is useless.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk

# 230 spit_bubble @ 09/03/11 10:54 PM

This looks really cool, but it only makes me wish it were College Hoops instead!

# 231 Spartan901 @ 09/03/11 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	Yes although they had this in last year. I like the implementation this year even better. With Wade and James on the floor James will do most of the play initiating. If James subs out Wade and Chalmers split it depending on the play calls ( wade won't initiate plays he finishes). When Chalmers is on the floor with out either of the big 2 he is the primary ball handler. There were a few indirect issues with this. I don't know what the end result will be but when I played last this was not an issue. In 2k11 the 4 play limit really screwed you with your stars or main scorers. The combination that caused this were too few authentic plays for your main guy. Last year you were forced to have plays for EVERY player on the floor even a guy who may never shoot. So although the plays were authentic they weren't deep enough to allow you to see a guy score in the variety of ways he might. The cpu was also limited in not knowing playtypes and which one a player should prefer. The defense was at a supreme disadvantage trying to trail a guy coming off any types of screens due to movement/ animation limitations. This year you have play types which are ranked in order 1-4. They looked at the AI for calling plays and made sure the AI would have access to and utilize all plays in the playbook. Think about it. Last year you played 48 minute games ( some of you) with 4 plays and now you can have 1 play type with as many of those types of plays in your playbook. So if you have 20 iso plays and you have a player who is an Iso he has access to all of those AND all of up to 3 more types of plays. So the play pool has greatly expanded. This means the cpu can have multiple post and iso and pick and roll plays that are only limited by the playbooks. The defensive movement has also been improved which will cut down on the number of wide open shots wing players will receive. So from a design standpoint all the major issues with that were addressed. Now the only question is how well was it implemented. Also when you get the game don't forget we didn't want the cpu to just run away from plays that were working and just have generic play distribution. If you can't stop something then why would we run anything else ? So there is a delicate balance there and we won't know till you guys get it and play it if went to far or stopped too short. So good quality feedback will definitely be helpful prior to any patches if there are any. The CPU is a BEAST on using their stars. Combine the spacing with the branches and the improved defensive speeds ( no real cheat burst on defense) Like Dirk is unstoppable. Period. I had Lebron score 17 of his teams 25 points in one quarter against me. Just dominate. So for me on the build I played that was not even an issue. I can't lie I have a HUGE smile anytime I see the cpu correctly use a branch on me as I cheat one of the angles. It's not perfect though its a first year implementation and I didn't get every idea I had in because of time but I think it represents one hell of a first step into making the cpu more life like and less predictable. Miles ahead of 2k11 anyway.

I just gotta say Czar, you are the man and absolutely LOVE the fact that 2k involved you in the process of developing this game. With them reaching out to you in this way and Mo on the trailers, to me it shows an incredible appreciation and respect for their fan base and I am hard pressed to think of another company that includes the people that keep the boat afloat in such a marvelous way. Kudos man and much respect for 2k

# 232 tcnumba10 @ 09/03/11 11:08 PM

Thanks again for your insight and answering my questions Da Czar! It's great to have someone like you who represents the NBA 2K Nation Community!

I have a few more questions if you don't mind bud, regarding the penetration and defense.

How's the defense by the cpu when the user tries to force and drive their way in for a dunk? How does the cpu defenders prevent the user abusing this strategy? Faster rotations? More physical one on one D? Less dunks in the paint? Abusing turbo by the user is a non factor this year?

Another main concern was the lack of pull-up Js. It was extremely hard for the user to drive and stop and pull-up esp using Kobe trying to emulate what he does in real-life since he's not as athletic as he once was. Are pull-up Js easier to execute and does the cpu utilize it as well more often?

Although it was confirmed by Mike Wang that there will be a walk-up the court animation this year, I didn't see it in the demo. Can you confirm to us again if it is in 2K12 and it's utilized by the cpu too?

How are accessory colors this year? Can you choose different headband colors for home and away games? I know that in 2K11 that the armband, sleeves would change color if you used the 2ndary accessory color option but those colors were already preset...

Lastly, are there any new user/cpu gameplay sliders and/or player tendency/attributes that are in 2K12?

Thanks alot man, really appreciate your time and feedback!

# 233 KyotoCarl @ 09/04/11 08:12 AM

Don't know if this been mentioned in the thread, but court spacing looks really good this year IMO.

# 234 stillfeelme @ 09/04/11 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	This year you have play types which are ranked in order 1-4. They looked at the AI for calling plays and made sure the AI would have access to and utilize all plays in the playbook. Think about it. Last year you played 48 minute games ( some of you) with 4 plays and now you can have 1 play type with as many of those types of plays in your playbook. So if you have 20 iso plays and you have a player who is an Iso he has access to all of those AND all of up to 3 more types of plays. So the play pool has greatly expanded. This means the cpu can have multiple post and iso and pick and roll plays that are only limited by the playbooks.

Czar in here dropping knowledge. This is the first thing that stood out to me. All of those plays assigned by play types for your stars opens up things by so much compared to last year without you having to change anything at all. I know some in here want to switch up the playbook to have various plays from different playbooks say motion plays from say Utah, or they want specific screens that are ran for the baseline like Boston with Ray Allen or etc. A custom playbook is nice but if you like to play with different teams that means you probably need a custom playbook for every team you like to play with or it wouldn't work out IMO. If sounds like 2K would need implement a way to save mutilple custom playbooks for it to work out for everybody.

# 235 TheKasmar @ 09/04/11 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcnumba10


	Another main concern was the lack of pull-up Js. It was extremely hard for the user to drive and stop and pull-up esp using Kobe trying to emulate what he does in real-life since he's not as athletic as he once was.

Not this user. I've had plenty of players light me up with Kobe's pull up J.

# 236 kolanji @ 09/04/11 01:46 PM

now that is more like it when it comes to an insight the one before it was like

well that painted a very well rounded offensive approach in nba 2k12, but cant say that much defensive info can be extracted.hope when they do release an in depth info on how the defensive side of things works to kinda balance off the offensive upgrades.

# 237 Da_Czar @ 09/04/11 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartan901


	I just gotta say Czar, you are the man and absolutely LOVE the fact that 2k involved you in the process of developing this game. With them reaching out to you in this way and Mo on the trailers, to me it shows an incredible appreciation and respect for their fan base and I am hard pressed to think of another company that includes the people that keep the boat afloat in such a marvelous way. Kudos man and much respect for 2k

Much appreciated Spartan and everyone else who dropped in. I feel like a noob if I quote every single post to say thank you but I would. LOL Thanks again I see ya'll family !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcnumba10


	Thanks again for your insight and answering my questions Da Czar! It's great to have someone like you who represents the NBA 2K Nation Community! I have a few more questions if you don't mind bud, regarding the penetration and defense. How's the defense by the cpu when the user tries to force and drive their way in for a dunk? How does the cpu defenders prevent the user abusing this strategy? Faster rotations? More physical one on one D? Less dunks in the paint? Abusing turbo by the user is a non factor this year?

I don't know if it's just the way I play but on AllStar I wasn't seeing a whole lot of dunks from my team. The new contact around the rim along with better on ball defense and the deepest rotations on defense I have seen in a game= a pretty staunch defensive CPU.

A few people who have played have mentioned the rotations. Significant changes were made in that area. Can't elaborate as again I don't know if there is a defensive insight but it all comes together to make the CPU play smarter D.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcnumba10


	main concern was the lack of pull-up Js. It was extremely hard for the user to drive and stop and pull-up esp using Kobe trying to emulate what he does in real-life since he's not as athletic as he once was. Are pull-up Js easier to execute and does the cpu utilize it as well more often?

I remember when I used to be concerned that the cpu wasn't tuff enough or wasn't able to score against too much pressure. But honestly after the heat had me down 26 in the first half the first time I put it on allstar I was like F the cpu... LOL The game was tougher and you can't just say oh it's tougher for this reason or that. It is a combination of things.

Now again after I get the game and play it for awhile then maybe things will be different but as it stood the cpu was no punk and not is a cheese to keep it close way that I could see.

Every year they add more basketball elements that make the game a tad more difficult. This year I believe they added more of those elements than any single year in their past. Just my opinion thought and keep in mind working on a game and sitting there playing it all day are two different things. I spent most of my time evaluating and suggesting so It could be different when I only have to play. That is key to understand when interpreting my answers.

That said I don't feel I should ever be down to the cpu by 26 points on all star.

[quote=tcnumba10;2042806336] it was confirmed by Mike Wang that there will be a walk-up the court animation this year, I didn't see it in the demo. Can you confirm to us again if it is in 2K12 and it's utilized by the cpu too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcnumba10


	are accessory colors this year? Can you choose different headband colors for home and away games? I know that in 2K11 that the armband, sleeves would change color if you used the 2ndary accessory color option but those colors were already preset... Lastly, are there any new user/cpu gameplay sliders and/or player tendency/attributes that are in 2K12? Thanks alot man, really appreciate your time and feedback!

Didn't have any time or inclination to look into those things tc. Apologies. The game is HUGE. and I tried to focus on the area's I could have the most impact on a short amount of time. So instead of barely looking at everything I looked deep into a few things. Or tried to anyway.

# 238 Goffs @ 09/04/11 05:59 PM

How's play art handled this year czar? Playing against someone next to you and trying to run a play is no fun since he can see the arrows which tells me to run this way or that way and he would just cut me off which destroys the play I'm trying to run.

# 239 Knickerbocker @ 09/04/11 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goffs


	How's play art handled this year czar? Playing against someone next to you and trying to run a play is no fun since he can see the arrows which tells me to run this way or that way and he would just cut me off which destroys the play I'm trying to run.

You could turn off play art in 2k11 already.

# 240 Goffs @ 09/04/11 06:24 PM

yes I know that but I don't know where it begins..I'm not one of those that memorize a few plays as I like to get everyone involved....again you move wrong and the play breaks...

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