Madden 12 News Post

Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

06:40 AM - August 18, 2011 by Steve_OS

ESPN The Gamer has posted the Madden NFL 12 player ratings for the Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings.

Are there any changes you would like to see, or are they just about right?

Game: Madden NFL 12Reader Score: 6.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii / Xbox 360Votes for game: 44 - View All

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# 121 genghisfrog @ 08/20/11 10:51 AM

Bush is terrible period. He is good on special teams and that's it. The only reason he got that pick is because he studied film and knew Big Ben would throw it to Wallace so he left his man wide open and broke on the ball. Asked to play man 2 man, Bush can't cover anyone.

There is a reason the Packers had the best nickel pass d in the league this past year and it's not because of Bush. Sam Shields had a better statistical season than DRC, but I'm sure DRC isn't a 71 overall in your ratings. So keep thinking your ratings are accurate based on the limited research you've done.

The Steelers came back in the game after SHields and Woodson both got hurt. Bush had to play and was terrible outside of his INT. Remember that TD he gave up, yeah, thought so. Remember the Arizona game last year? Barnett and Bush got abused all day. Remember any game that Bush has played, he got abused in coverage.

# 122 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genghisfrog


	Bush is terrible period. He is good on special teams and that's it. The only reason he got that pick is because he studied film and knew Big Ben would throw it to Wallace so he left his man wide open and broke on the ball. Asked to play man 2 man, Bush can't cover anyone. There is a reason the Packers had the best nickel pass d in the league this past year and it's not because of Bush. Sam Shields had a better statistical season than DRC, but I'm sure DRC isn't a 71 overall in your ratings. So keep thinking your ratings are accurate based on the limited research you've done. The Steelers came back in the game after SHields and Woodson both got hurt. Bush had to play and was terrible outside of his INT. Remember that TD he gave up, yeah, thought so. Remember the Arizona game last year? Barnett and Bush got abused all day. Remember any game that Bush has played, he got abused in coverage.

Limited research? I have ratings for 17000+ players! All based on scouting data! How is that "limited"? EA can't even boast that! In fact, I don't think anyone online can.

Bush is definitely the worse of the two as a CB, but when you move Bush and his skills to the FS position, his OVR matches that Shields. Did you ever play football? Ever coach? If you did you would realize that teams move players around to play to their strengths.

Was Bush playing CB or FS in those situations? CB. And I said that as a CB he only equates to a 65 at best. But since he largely played FS until injuries occurred, that is how he was rated?

# 123 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	And Shields shouldn't have been a 71. He was basically our starting CB. GB D was in nickel most of the time, and in the nickel, Woodson is the nickel back. I like how Bush is progressing as a DB, I'm not a Bush basher, but if you think Bush is more aware than Shields you are crazy. One, Bush would be starting or the nickel back instead of Shields. And did you even watch Shields play during the season? After what you have written so far in this post, I'm convinced you don't know what you are doing. Yes, I do contend that Bush is the more aware player because of his experience...and it isn't by much as you can see. And did you notice the separation Finley got on that safety last night? Watch the video. They have all 3 grabs. That last one for 17 yards is not what I would call seperation. The DB, #23 Hamza Abdullah, gave him the inside on the post, then quickly closed in for the tackle. That is the 86 SPD of Abdullah vs. the 77 SPD of Finley. If Finley had such great separation, why didn't he take it for a larger run after the catch? He caught the ball at the 30 and was tackled at the 33 after having the inside and maybe a yard of separation at most. Not great separation if you ask me. And as for the deep one that they missed on, that was against Joey Porter with his BLAZING 72 SPD, a full 5 under that of Finley and a guy he SHOULD beat even without getting into better position. Under the TT McCarthy regime, they put in the best player until the kid with the higher ceiling plays better. Sure Shields has a lot to learn, but he is still ahead of Bush as a DB. He's not in there because he's young with a higher ceiling, he's in there because he's already better than Bush. Get out of here with this crap. Shields is ahead of Bush as a CB. Shields still has a ton to learn and his ratings reflect that. False, they chose to put the better DB in. He has better cover skills, better balls skills. Bush is just starting to become on OK DB after 5-6 years. They played two different positions. Shields is by far the better CB. He was ahead of Bush. As much as I like Bush and am happy he's progressing as a DB, he STILL is not ready to start. I never said Bush was ready to start. I just said that as a FS, his strengths are further exemplified which allowed him to stand out a bit more. I don't want to hide the overall, but I do want it to be inaccurate, or a range, that gets more accurate with how good your GM, Scouts, and Coaches evaluate and how long the player is in the NFL. But you COULD NOT BE MORE OFF ON SHIELDS AND BUSH.

They largely played two different positions all last year. I am not saying that Bush is the better player as a CB. But I am saying that he did make up for his lesser physical ability with better recognition skills. That's what FS's have to do back there. Read, and react.

# 124 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	The only ratings that would be less "opinion" would be physical ratings, and even those are opinion more than fact. The rest are ALL opinion. But that is the nature of the game, and the best you can do. I just seem to disagree with some of your Opinions on packer ratings. I say packer ratings because that's the only team I follow with such DEPTH. The rest of the teams I follow just casually.

All of these ratings are based on higher opinions than ours though. The scouting data is pretty legit from TSX. After all, they provide ALL the NCAA and NFL scouting data for CBS Sports.

# 125 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	Didn't he get torched in the END ZONE by Hines Ward? You miss that? I don't hold that against Bush like you seem to hold one play against Shields. Bush started off as a BAD DB. He turned himself into almost an average DB. Seems he's even gotten better this year. But he read ONE play correctly in the SB to make a great read and play. Shields was doing that all season. You say you've watched all GB games since 95. I'm not you, so I can't say you don't, but I have a VERY HARD TIME BELIEVING IT. I have. I was in 5th grade and haven't missed a game on TV or in person since. I even made sure that when I left WI that I had a way to see all the games on Directv. It's a pretty big deal to me. In fact, I got to meet a bunch of them down here in Dallas at the Omni Hotel when they stayed about 2 miles away from where I currently reside. I don't care what Bush and Shields were rated in the game last year, or this year, Shields was and is much better than Bush as a DB. When both are rated as CBs, Shields is much better. When Shields is a CB and Bush a FS, they have equal OVR ratings in Madden. Just stop. I could say dumb things like Bush was picking his nose at the Goal Line when he got beat by Ward. Please stop with those dumb comments.

I will choose to comment as I wish. That's the great thing about a forum so long as you obey the forum rules.

# 126 kunner @ 08/20/11 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	They largely played two different positions all last year. I am not saying that Bush is the better player as a CB. But I am saying that he did make up for his lesser physical ability with better recognition skills. That's what FS's have to do back there. Read, and react.

Yes, they played 2 largely different positions last year. Shields covered one of the top 2 receivers for almost every team, while Bush was a gunner on special teams. Im not a Bush basher, i always thought Packer fans were too hard on him for the botched fumble against the Giants, when it should have been directed at Bert Farve. Bush is progressing, but if im not mistaken, you also have Brandon Underwood above him, who didnt even dress in 3/4 of the games last year, and will more than likely be cut this season.

# 127 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunner


	Yes, they played 2 largely different positions last year. Shields covered one of the top 2 receivers for almost every team, while Bush was a gunner on special teams. Im not a Bush basher, i always thought Packer fans were too hard on him for the botched fumble against the Giants, when it should have been directed at Bert Farve. Bush is progressing, but if im not mistaken, you also have Brandon Underwood above him, who didnt even dress in 3/4 of the games last year, and will more than likely be cut this season.

I am referring to one playing CB vs. one playing FS for the majority of the season.

# 128 kunner @ 08/20/11 03:33 PM

Bush didnt play a whole lot in the secondary during the season. The only reason he saw time was after Morgan Burnett got hurt.

Right now, Bush is on the bubble, he will only make that team because of his special teams play. He might make it as the 4th safety, but watching last night, M.D. Jennings played a solid game behind a pretty suspect defense with Pat Lee and Bush out there at corner.

Im not saying your wrong, i just think the foundation for what you are basing your ratings on is skewed. I will take a look at all the ratings you have done, and i will probably more than likely use some of them.

# 129 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunner


	Bush didnt play a whole lot in the secondary during the season. The only reason he saw time was after Morgan Burnett got hurt. Right now, Bush is on the bubble, he will only make that team because of his special teams play. He might make it as the 4th safety, but watching last night, M.D. Jennings played a solid game behind a pretty suspect defense with Pat Lee and Bush out there at corner. Im not saying your wrong, i just think the foundation for what you are basing your ratings on is skewed. I will take a look at all the ratings you have done, and i will probably more than likely use some of them.

Go ahead and compare the preliminary ratings between both players and let me know what you think.

# 130 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	With all your 17000+ scouting reports, you must have missed that Bush has been a CB all pre-season. He's not playing Safety. He played CB until last year. Where he played both CB and S. In the SB he was a CB. And he played VERY sparingly during the season, except for special teams.

From 11/1/2010 and 1/1/2010 until 8/1/2010 ourlads had him listed at FS. He has changed positions again, and the next time the ratings are updated, the positional change will cause his OVR to drop.

In the SB, he was listed as a FS according to ourlads.

# 131 K_GUN @ 08/20/11 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	From 11/1/2010 and 1/1/2010 until 8/1/2010 ourlads had him listed at FS. He has changed positions again, and the next time the ratings are updated, the positional change will cause his OVR to drop. In the SB, he was listed as a FS according to ourlads.

side note...in years past your ratings would have only been good for 1 season as the next years players ratings would skew high but now that u can edit every player in your franchise it's possible to have a few years on your rating system

looking forward to it

# 132 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	Shields may be faster, but Bush has very good physical ability. And Read and React hasn't been Bush's strength. Nor has playing the ball. He's played CB every year except for one where he was a part time Safety and Part time CB. Then how out of date was your scouting data? That Shields was rated so low. I guess I used my eyes watching the GB games. You have the misfortune of not being able to watch EVERY game of EVERY team. So you do the best you can. That's very true. I encourage you to do that. And others are free to respond to them. But your Shields picking nose comment was ridiculous.

Bush is more agile and gets up to top-end a bit quicker, but he is lacking the SPD and Jumping ability compared to Shields. I have Bush 6 points higher in AWR, mostly due to his greater experience in the league, and 9 points higher in play recognition for the same reason.

1. All the scouting data you see is PRELIMINARY and is not finalized. Read the FBGratings thread for more detail.

2. The scouting data is as of the end of last season, as well as the OVR ratings. That is to say, directly after the SB was played.

3. Shields had been upwards of a 71 before the SB was played.

4. Keep in mind that this system of ratings is designed to stretch out the ratings. Your "average" player that is a 75 in Madden according to EAs ratings is more like a 70 in mine.

5. Experience and injuries affect the OVR rating significantly, and they are often overcome by physical skills in the ratings system.

The point of the nose picking statement was to show how asinine it would be to not consider Bush's efforts that day in coverage.

# 133 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_GUN


	side note...in years past your ratings would have only been good for 1 season as the next years players ratings would skew high but now that u can edit every player in your franchise it's possible to have a few years on your rating system looking forward to it

Indeed. Check out the FBG thread for more info or questions.

# 134 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	What he was listed and what he played in the SB were 2 different things. After Woodson and Shields left the game, Bush and Lee came in and played CB and Nickel CB. Did you watch the game and where they played?

Of course he did! And sometimes Brad Smith played QB for the Jets last year. Does that mean that he is listed as a QB on the depth chart? Just because a guy plays a position in the game doesn't mean that is his listed spot. And in Madden, they assign positions so we have to list one. I choose to list the official position that a player is listed under on the depth chart. If your #2 FS also serves as a Dime CB, you don't list him as a CB.

And yes, I watched the game and where everyone was playing. Don't insult my viewership.

# 135 DCEBB2001 @ 08/20/11 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	Going by the couple of Packer examples you've given in this thread, and your rational, I don't have much confidence in your rating system, so I'll just stay clear of them. Hey if others enjoy them, great. Seems like you put a lot of time into this. I just LOL at the couple of Packer examples you gave in this thread.

Fine by me. To each his own.

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