Madden 12 News Post

Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

06:40 AM - August 18, 2011 by Steve_OS

ESPN The Gamer has posted the Madden NFL 12 player ratings for the Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings.

Are there any changes you would like to see, or are they just about right?

Game: Madden NFL 12Reader Score: 6.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii / Xbox 360Votes for game: 44 - View All

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# 61 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceoye


	go on youtube and type in Andrew Quarless 62 yd td, dont worry Ill wait..EA is going off of 40 times and actual NFL play..Quarless doesnt do much at all for the pack its hard to rate someone acurately if they are not in spotlight with the ball running alot. quarless is either catching a 6 yard 1st down and rarely goaline tds..when Jermichael is playing he stretches the field hes in spotlight. everything quarless does X's 10. dont bring that quarless is faster than finley mess in here 40 time crap. 40 time means nothing when you have to evade players and run routes.

Once again, offer some proof. If 40 times did not matter, these kids would not spend tens of thousands at training centers learning to run them, would they? Quarless doesn't do much because he was a rookie. Even Finley's rookie year was a wash in 2008. He has great athletic ability, but needs to refine his technique like every rookie wanting to stick in the NFL.

# 62 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	I'm not saying Donny's are right or wrong. And I'm not even disputing that guys claim that Quarless is faster. I'm just disputing how much faster he things Quarless is. For some reason, he thinks Quarless gets good separation, and Finley can only out jump people.

When did I say that Quarless is WAY beyond Finley? I just said he is the faster of the two TEs. I didn't say he was 10 points ahead or anything. I think you are trying to imply something that I did not say.

I am simply saying that Finley isn't even the fastest TE on his team and is not deserving of that 86 Speed. At FBG, I have Finley at a 77 SPD, Quarless at 82, and Driver at 87. Saying that Finely is faster than Driver with Donny's ratings is ludicrous to me. What further exemplifies my point is that Finley is coming off of major knee surgery as well. How on earth can you give a guy 86 speed with above average speed for a TE and a severe injury history? That makes no sense.

I am also saying that Finley is the more agile of the 2 TEs. Finley is a better route runner and is better after the catch. He is more polished and is the better player, even when injured. But what Finley is not compared to Quarless if faster.

# 63 aceoye @ 08/18/11 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	Once again, offer some proof. If 40 times did not matter, these kids would not spend tens of thousands at training centers learning to run them, would they? Quarless doesn't do much because he was a rookie. Even Finley's rookie year was a wash in 2008. He has great athletic ability, but needs to refine his technique like every rookie wanting to stick in the NFL.

go tell that to Mike McCarthy who even says DJ Williams is out playing him..Quarless is a scrub..and 40 times mean nothing.. see: raiders

# 64 at23steelers @ 08/18/11 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceoye


	go tell that to Mike McCarthy who even says DJ Williams is out playing him..Quarless is a scrub..and 40 times mean nothing.. see: raiders

40 times matter dealing with speed. I don't understand the Raiders point. You can't argue that DHB isn't fast. You can argue that he is struggling due to route-running, catching, and awareness. Just because someone is faster does not make them a better player.

# 65 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ_Bills9


	He's actually a quite awful leaper posting a beastly 27.5 inch vertical at the combine. Guy just isn't all that athletic to be honest. Finley that is. And don't ever use a pro-day result when talking about 40 times. They are not electronic, therefore they are not accurate. Combine results are the only accurate 40 times.

I was referring more to his size and ability to come down with a catch by body position when jumping. Also, remember that only 2 out of the 6 times taken from the 40 at the combine (for each run, one is electronic and 2 are hand-timed...and they run twice) are electronic. So even then, the electronic times at the combine are not necessarily the best verifiable time posted.

Pro days do often use electronic timing these days with the aid of the release pad or a timing system. If you watch this video of Reggie Bush in 2006, you can see the timing pylons at the 10, 20, and 40 yard marks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_95EsZFKhc8

So yes, many are electronically timed. That run, BTW was reported as a 4.33, but was adjusted to 4.37 during the post-calibration adjustments.

# 66 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suthrnthug


	If you guys don't think Finley is fast, you try covering him. I'm sure Detroit, Chicago, and Minnesota would appreciate the help. He might not look fast on TV but keep in mind he is 6'5 240+ lbs. I haven't seen one LB/DB lock him down yet. That's my two cents. Go Pack!

Well, the average LB in the NFL since 1998 would have a speed of 74 and AGI of 76. Finley would have, on that same scale, a SPD of 77 and AGI of 78. So, he is too fast for LBs.

He is also 6-4, 247 and the average DB including safeties and CBs is 5-11, 195 so he is too big for DBs. That's a pretty good combination to have when wanting to beat someone. Outrun the LBs and out-muscle/jump the DBs.

# 67 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayman


	Finley wasn't the full-time starter in 2009. He only started 10 games that year. In other news, Kuhn's overall is 20 points too low.

Well, in his rookie year, Quarless had 3 starts during the regular season.

In 2008, Finley's rookie season, he had 1 start. In 2009, he had 10.

So if you want to compare apples to apples, Quarless had more starts as a rookie than Finley had. Once again, not saying that Quarless is the better player, just arguing for Finley's speed being very over-rated.

# 68 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceoye


	go tell that to Mike McCarthy who even says DJ Williams is out playing him..Quarless is a scrub..and 40 times mean nothing.. see: raiders

And that is because Quarless is not technically sound, not because he is not a good athlete.

And don't get me started on Williams! He is almost as athletic as Quarless, but is more polished. Could be a good one! Why do you think they may keep 4 TEs this year!

# 69 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by at23steelers


	40 times matter dealing with speed. I don't understand the Raiders point. You can't argue that DHB isn't fast. You can argue that he is struggling due to route-running, catching, and awareness. Just because someone is faster does not make them a better player.

The 40 is a good tool to show the POTENTIAL for speed. It doesn't tell you how aware a guy is or how well he catches or runs a route. Just his overall point A to B speed and acceleration. Well said though!

# 70 Bellsprout @ 08/18/11 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	Well, in his rookie year, Quarless had 3 starts during the regular season. In 2008, Finley's rookie season, he had 1 start. In 2009, he had 10. So if you want to compare apples to apples, Quarless had more starts as a rookie than Finley had. Once again, not saying that Quarless is the better player, just arguing for Finley's speed being very over-rated.

What.... in the **** are you talking about?

I don't.....

Quarless has more career starts, so he's faster than Finley?

How does that ma... you know what. Don't explain. I don't care.

I wasn't arguing speed. Who gives a **** about who's faster? Finley's better. I've watched both of them in every game they've ever played and it's not even close.

Jesus.

# 71 TracerBullet @ 08/18/11 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayman


	Quarless has more career starts, so he's faster than Finley? How does that ma... you know what. Don't explain. I don't care.

Peyton Manning must be the fastest QB int he league then.

# 72 aceoye @ 08/18/11 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by at23steelers


	40 times matter dealing with speed. I don't understand the Raiders point. You can't argue that DHB isn't fast. You can argue that he is struggling due to route-running, catching, and awareness. Just because someone is faster does not make them a better player.

or in finleys case a faster player on the field ones 40 time could be better than another but it doesnt mean they're faster on the field..the field isnt a race track. while 40s and all those other records are key elements to use when rating a player you cant go off that alone as it can be inaccurate as its just judging speed and not speed in-game

# 73 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayman


	What.... in the ** are you talking about? I don't..... Quarless has more career starts, so he's faster than Finley? How does that ma... you know what. Don't explain. I don't care. I wasn't arguing speed. Who gives a ** about who's faster? Finley's better. I've watched both of them in every game they've ever played and it's not even close. Jesus.

Oh I agree. I was just pointing out that starts do not matter when determining who is the better player. Everyone knows that Finley is the better TE and even though Quarless had more starts, that shouldn't mean he is better. I was just using your post to illustrate that point. I have a feeling that many here think that you have to be "fast" in order to be a good player. So if Quarless is faster, that doesn't mean he is the better player. That's all. Don't get it twisted.

# 74 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TracerBullet


	Peyton Manning must be the fastest QB int he league then.

Exactly my point. SPD does not equate to being better. So why rate a guy like Finley so high in the SPD department when he isn't really that fast? Doesn't make any sense.

# 75 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceoye


	or in finleys case a faster player on the field ones 40 time could be better than another but it doesnt mean they're faster on the field..the field isnt a race track. while 40s and all those other records are key elements to use when rating a player you cant go off that alone as it can be inaccurate as its just judging speed and not speed in-game

Well and that is why I used some of the SPD ratings from the in-game 40 project run by a colleague. And even then, one can see that Finley wasn't the fastest TE out there.

# 76 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	Where did I say he was? I just don't think there's much difference between Finley and Quarless like you do. According to you, Finley is only good for jump balls. That's where I thinking your smoking stuff.

I never said that was the only thing he was good at. Otherwise I would have his speed at 12 and JMP at 99. I just said GB tends to use him split out wide in the red zone for jump balls over CBs. Find where I said the words "ONLY GOOD FOR JUMP BALLS" please. I wasn't saying that you said he was slower than Driver. I was asking you a question.

# 77 tebowfanai @ 08/18/11 08:53 PM

Very accurate ratings if you ask me.

# 78 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	You kept saying that Finley is ONLY good for jump balls while praising Quarless. And a difference of 77 and 82 is saying it. I strongly disagree. So, I'm not even fighting you on who is actually faster. Just how much. To me, 77 compared to 82 isn't a huge difference. However, there is a HUGE difference between how EA has him and where I think he should be. That is almost double the difference I recommend. Oh, so you timed this training camp (after his surgery)? How would you know he lost so much speed due to injury? I am merely suggesting that most players who have serious knee surgeries lose on the average of about .05s off of their in-game 40 per season. That's all. And yes, I do have access to data to back that up per the in-game 40 time data. See that thread for more info. And I'm saying that I don't think there is nearly as much difference in speed as you think, and that I'm not even sure which one is faster. I'm not even fighting you on which one is faster, just how much faster.

Completely fine. I have no issue with that. But please tell me where I said he is ONLY good for jump balls.

# 79 aceoye @ 08/18/11 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	Well and that is why I used some of the SPD ratings from the in-game 40 project run by a colleague. And even then, one can see that Finley wasn't the fastest TE out there.

Im talking about in-game an actual nfl football game..I dont think theres a accurate way to record someones speed in game as you will have to take into account how much equipment they are wearing, what routes they ran,grass/weather conditions and etc.. so in trying to get someones speed from that you can only go by what you see..In which finley>quarless..when finley starts for green bay you see more finley action compared to when quarless starts.. Its not like hes way faster than quarless so the better player equals more speed is irrelevant...what Im getting at is that finleys 86 is understandable to quarless which you rarely see quarless do much on the field its hard to make him faster than jermichael when you barely see anything..I dont agree with donald driver being slower though..

# 80 DCEBB2001 @ 08/18/11 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceoye


	Im talking about in-game an actual nfl football game..I dont think theres a accurate way to record someones speed in game as you will have to take into account how much equipment they are wearing, what routes they ran,grass/weather conditions and etc.. so in trying to get someones speed from that you can only go by what you see..In which finley>quarless..when finley starts for green bay you see more finley action compared to when quarless starts.. Its not like hes way faster than quarless so the better player equals more speed is irrelevant...what Im getting at is that finleys 86 is understandable to quarless which you rarely see quarless do much on the field its hard to make him faster than jermichael when you barely see anything..I dont agree with donald driver being slower though..

My argument, however, is how do you know what attributes to performance? How do you know that it is SPEED that attributes to Finley being the better player? What about Finley's AGI being better? Or being the better route runner? Or reading the defense better? My point is that you cannot simply make a player faster just because he is better. That is what EA does. They make players faster because they play better, when in reality they may be better because they are more technical. When I watch Finley, I see a guy who runs good routes and out muscles anyone for a ball. He has GREAT hands. However, when I see Quarless, I see a fast straight-line runner who has tighter hips. He isn't as agile or as good of a route runner. He has difficulty reading defenses.

Watch this Vid. Who do you think is faster? 45 year old Jerry Rice or this kid at a Nike Combine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fzX30Efvtg

My guess is that the kid is MUCH faster than Jerry at that age, but because Jerry is such a good route runner and knows what he is doing against man coverage he DESTROYS the DB and makes him look like a fool. The kid isn't even in the frame at the end of the route! So in essence, you don't have to be fast to be good.

That is what I think of Finley. He is a tad slower than Quarless, but is much more technically sound. So why make him faster when he truly isn't? That would make as much sense as rating Jerry Rice a 99 in SPD and that poor kid a 79 in SPD when we all know that is probably not true.

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