Madden 12 News Post

Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

12:19 AM - June 17, 2011 by illwill10

According to Pastapadre and Kotaku, Phil Frazier (Executive Producer for Madden NFL) is the latest to leave EA Sports Tiburon.

Quote:


	"It is currently uncertain where he is headed however two prime possibilities are Row Sham Bow � the new social gaming company started by former Tiburon GM Philip Holt � or the massive social gaming company Zynga which has taken on several former Tiburon employees in the last year."

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# 221 Only1LT @ 06/17/11 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	Production and Design are different roles... Josh and Mike are both designers. I am also a designer, and I'll say it straight out; I would not want Phil's job. It's a whole lot of schedules and meetings and spreadsheets and way too much business for me. I want to get my hands dirty... I want to watch my designs become reality in game. To address how this affects Madden; Cam Weber has really set us on a course that I believe is going to result in great things from Madden in the future. I think he's a fine leader and has a great sim oriented vision for Madden. If you'd told me six months ago that Ian and Phil (the two people most instramental in bringing me here) would be gone by the time I finished my first contract, I don't think I'd have come... but I just signed my extention, and I'm going to stay, because I believe in where Cam is taking us. I'm nervous, because now I'm here without any of the people who brought me here, but I'm going to be working my * off to prove myself.**

They thought enough of you to offer an extension. You're doing something right. Although spelling extension properly isn't one of them.

Just kidding

# 222 thudias @ 06/17/11 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	Production and Design are different roles... Josh and Mike are both designers. I am also a designer, and I'll say it straight out; I would not want Phil's job. It's a whole lot of schedules and meetings and spreadsheets and way too much business for me. I want to get my hands dirty... I want to watch my designs become reality in game. To address how this affects Madden; Cam Weber has really set us on a course that I believe is going to result in great things from Madden in the future. I think he's a fine leader and has a great sim oriented vision for Madden. If you'd told me six months ago that Ian and Phil (the two people most instramental in bringing me here) would be gone by the time I finished my first contract, I don't think I'd have come... but I just signed my extention, and I'm going to stay, because I believe in where Cam is taking us. I'm nervous, because now I'm here without any of the people who brought me here, but I'm going to be working my *** off to prove myself.

Speaks volumes...

# 223 Broncos86 @ 06/17/11 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	To address how this affects Madden; Cam Weber has really set us on a course that I believe is going to result in great things from Madden in the future. I think he's a fine leader and has a great sim oriented vision for Madden.

This, coming from Adembroski, is good to hear and should be enough for this community to chill out.

# 224 canes21 @ 06/17/11 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adfletch71


	I hope also, u already know what the community have been asking for years now. He said he's a sim gamer, so I'm holding him too his word for the direction of Madden in the future. Surpass NFL2k5 presentation and ALLPRO2k8 gameplay and Madden will be the game.

Their presentation looks better than 2k5, it just doesn't sound better. I think too many people have memories of 2k5 and they always think of the game better than it really was. I know I do all the time. I'll have a thought to play it, then I actually will and it won't be nearly as good as I remember.

As for gameplay surpassing 2k8. That is all opinion based. Some people may have always like Madden's gameplay over 2k's and vice-versa. I always preferred 2k's gameplay, but I think Madden is catching up quickly. Both games have their problems, but Madden's are slowly going away. My biggest problem with EA's games were suction and the lack of defense. Those are addressed so I will not be surprised if I like the gameplay this year a lot more than 2k8. 2k8 had a lot of problems too with its gameplay that Madden did better, and maybe even more than it did better than Madden.

# 225 Only1LT @ 06/17/11 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncos86


	This, coming from Adembroski, is good to hear and should be enough for this community to chill out.

I'm already plenty chilled lol, but even if I wasn't, no disrespect, but an EA/Tiburon employee saying that everything is ok with EA/Tiburon and Madden is really the only thing that said employee would ever say, regardless.

Not saying that everything isn't ok, but if it wasn't, I have a very hard time believing that they would actually tell us that the sky is falling.

Just saying.

# 226 Only1LT @ 06/17/11 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canes21


	Their presentation looks better than 2k5, it just doesn't sound better. I think too many people have memories of 2k5 and they always think of the game better than it really was. I know I do all the time. I'll have a thought to play it, then I actually will and it won't be nearly as good as I remember. As for gameplay surpassing 2k8. That is all opinion based. Some people may have always like Madden's gameplay over 2k's and vice-versa. I always preferred 2k's gameplay, but I think Madden is catching up quickly. Both games have their problems, but Madden's are slowly going away. My biggest problem with EA's games were suction and the lack of defense. Those are addressed so I will not be surprised if I like the gameplay this year a lot more than 2k8. 2k8 had a lot of problems too with its gameplay that Madden did better, and maybe even more than it did better than Madden.

The first part is all opinion based as well though. I happen to think that 2K5 presentation is still better.

I like the presentation improvements in 12, but they would do themselves a huge favor if they didn't cover up all those shiny new presentation aspects, that they plunked a huge chunk of change on, with the play call screen.

I really can't understand why they continue to do this. Might as well not spend the money if you can't even see where it went.

# 227 roadman @ 06/17/11 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	A few low level people no, but two top officials leaving, yes it is at any corporation.

I'm not sure you read my whole post?

I mentioned that I equate Ian and Phi as managers and directors in a large size company. To me, this isn't Peter Moore or the CFO jumping ship.

Keeping it simple. A company like Miller Brewery with 5,000 or 2,000 employees. Let's say a Manager of IT leaves and then 6 weeks later the Director of IT leaves. It might be big news to that department and connecting departments, but it won't make the Front Page headlines in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel business section.

That's my point.

# 228 Only1LT @ 06/17/11 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	I'm not sure you read my whole post? I mentioned that I equate Ian and Phi as managers and directors in a large size company. To me, this isn't Peter Moore or the CFO jumping ship. Keeping it simple. A company like Miller Brewery with 5,000 or 2,000 employees. Let's say a Manager of IT leaves and then 6 weeks later the Director of IT leaves. It might be big news to that department and connecting departments, but it won't make the Front Page headlines in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel business section. That's my point.

For what it's worth, I know what you are saying lol.

# 229 DaveDQ @ 06/17/11 05:59 PM

If you look at the evolution of Madden in the last 2-3 years, you can say Phil, and Ian for that matter, have definitely put this series in the right direction. Think about how bloated Madden was with Jostens, unnecessary Hall of Fame stuff, weapons and other just silly peripherals that were completely bogus.

So you consider all the mess in taking that stuff out and then trying to build it more towards the core of football and you know there were long hours put in. One thing Phil did well was move forward and not come on message boards and hope for affirmation. I always kind of saw him smirking at how silly we can get on here. At least that's my impression.

And while I took last year off from Madden, I've seen enough already to tell me they put a solid effort in.

# 230 canes21 @ 06/17/11 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adfletch71


	Hey Cane I humbly have to disagree with u on the presentation aspect of Madden. Madden looks way better than 2k5, but the core sequence and overall presentation is not close yet. ALLPRO2k8 gameplay is better fundamentally, look at the foot planting, sideline catches, double team blocking, route running..etc. Madden is behind in a big way, but they getting better. If Cam weber doesn't deliver, he going too get drilled just like Ian and Phil. The standard for presentation is NFL2k5 and gameplay is ALLPRO2k8. They wasn't perfect for sure, but the fundamentals was almost perfect.

Presentation is opinion based and so is gameplay. I love 2k5 and 2k8, but Madden 12's presentation looks great and better in my opinion. The commentary is not as good as 2k, and the out of game presentation is no where near as good, but during the game I think it is better.

With the gameplay...

Foot planting - Madden has this
Sideline catches: Madden has this
Double team blocking: Madden has this
Route running: ? Madden has this and in a somewhat realistic manner...

Like I've said before, most people think of 2k5 or 2k8 and their memories paint this amazing picture, but that really isn't how it is. Whenever I see 2k5 in my head, its a beautiful game that I love, but when I go and actually play it, it feels its age and really isn't as good as I remember. If you actually go back and play 2k8, which I have done recently, then play Madden 11 or look at Madden 12, then it really isn't that much greater. Both games have their pros and cons, but I think Madden is closing the gap quickly, and may actually be the better game this year and I'm a huge 2k fan.

# 231 roadman @ 06/17/11 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	I read your whole post. I disagree with it. It is big new if Miller has exclusive rights over Light Beer and Miller Light is the most successful beer product in the US, and the two mentioned are the driving force behind that nationally successful light beer product. It's national news. You're trying to compare things that are completely out of perspective, or comparing apples and oranges. You have to change your Miller example QUITE a bit to make it comparable to Ian and Phil leaving. Bad comparison. A better example would be if the two highest Defense Aircraft designers left Lockheed at the same time while designing and building the next future high tech fighter aircraft. That's a better comparison. Sure they're not CEO's of Lockheed, but it still is MAJOR news.

Sorry, agree to disagree with you on this one.

A bad comparison for you , not for me.

Yours isn't a better example, either, your going to the extreme. Lockheed vs EA?

Thanks LT, glad it makes sense.

# 232 ODogg @ 06/17/11 07:03 PM

Although I hate to see anyone lose their job and Phil seemed like a nice guy I can't say I'm not a bit looking forward to what new folks can bring to the game, because it sure needs a drastic change IMO, not just a slight change in direction as a lot of folks in this thread seem to believe..

# 233 BrianFifaFan @ 06/17/11 07:18 PM

First off, I'm sad to see both Ian and now Phil go. I've spent a lot of time involved in all of the interaction on here, and kind of developed a virtual bond. Thanks for all the insights into the inner workings of how Madden is made. That said, I can see how it would come to this. As a avid supporter of EA Canada, and especially the Fifa team, it has to be hard for the Tiburon team to have a big shot from that studio be brought down to basically right a "sinking ship." If I had spent over a decade of my life creating a game and then have a new face come in to tell me that we have to get this back on track, it would be very disheartening. I'd lose faith in all the work I'd done. I'd maybe ponder the possiblity that it's time for a change.....

That said, I'm glad that there are still some substantial pieces of the Madden team still in place. Franchise and Art of in above average developers hands. And our own AJ is a total gameplay junkie. If anyone can get the line play right, it is he. Which beings me to my next point. Maybe it is a blessing in disguise that we are having such a high-level shakeup. As much as Phil and Ian have meant, there was seemingly a bit of "tunnel-vision." Madden had a certain feel to it, a way of playing that said "Madden." And it was birthed and nurtured in those two collective minds, after a fashion. (there were others, too) I'm sure that the "Triple Play" team thought they had a winning formula, too. (I'm not dogging Madden like that, just an example) But the time had come for MVP to arise from a fresh set of eyes and minds. I look forward to the possiblity of a remake of the franchise in the Fifa, NHL, MVP fashion. I'd like to see a more NFL-like game, as opposed to a better "Madden." In my mind, this isn't a "lose, lose." It's a chance for some guys who might have gotten so engrossed in the continuation of the Madden legacy that they lost sight of the progress of overall sports gaming to try something fresh. I really don't mean that as a knock. Ian was well versed in all sports games, but seemed loath to make a huge change to core gameplay. It still had to have that Madden feel. And the "If you see it on Sunday" thing was kind of window dressing. We wanted to see gameplay that resembled Sunday, not just pretty overlays and Halftime shows. Once again, not a knock. It's just really hard to tell yourself that you need to change something you've seen be grossly successful and risk losing all you've built over the last forever.

With all of this said, I'm hopeful and fairly confident in the future. The guys who have highlighted their respective contributions to this year's game, meaning Mike and Donnie, have shown they have ideas and talent to spare. Ian and Phil wil do just fine. And with an EA Canada-ex at the helm Im really confident about how this game will feel and come to be a great representation of NFL football in the near future. That's one thing that seems to be the driving passion of EA Canada in their games, gameplay feel that captures the essence of the recreated sport. It seems to be a "win-win" for all involved..... Peace!

# 234 Mike Smoove @ 06/17/11 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canes21


	Presentation is opinion based and so is gameplay. I love 2k5 and 2k8, but Madden 12's presentation looks great and better in my opinion. The commentary is not as good as 2k, and the out of game presentation is no where near as good, but during the game I think it is better. With the gameplay... Foot planting - Madden has this Sideline catches: Madden has this Double team blocking: Madden has this Route running: ? Madden has this and in a somewhat realistic manner... Like I've said before, most people think of 2k5 or 2k8 and their memories paint this amazing picture, but that really isn't how it is. Whenever I see 2k5 in my head, its a beautiful game that I love, but when I go and actually play it, it feels its age and really isn't as good as I remember. If you actually go back and play 2k8, which I have done recently, then play Madden 11 or look at Madden 12, then it really isn't that much greater. Both games have their pros and cons, but I think Madden is closing the gap quickly, and may actually be the better game this year and I'm a huge 2k fan.

Madden does not have foot planting, you can clearly see they still slide, and when they go left to right they dont dig in, their legs still move as if they are running forward but the players body turns. Madden has sideline catches but they still need a little more work, rout running needs work, Madden 12 looks GREAT. Biggest issue I see is the sliding or lack of foot planting. Another instance you can tell there is no foot planting is when you throw on the run as soon as you press the button they throw instead of actually taking a step or two to gather themselves and throw which 2K8 does. But as a OVERALL GAME I think Madden 12 will be better than 2K5 and 2K8.

# 235 boritter @ 06/17/11 07:21 PM

This is starting to sound like the Activision v Infinity Ward drama...

Now MW3 has 3 developers.

I hope Madden 13 doesn't become a house divided as well.

# 236 canes21 @ 06/17/11 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Smoove


	Madden does not have foot planting, you can clearly see they still slide, and when they go left to right they dont dig in, their legs still move as if they are running forward but the players body turns. Madden has sideline catches but they still need a little more work, rout running needs work, Madden 12 looks GREAT. Biggest issue I see is the sliding or lack of foot planting. Another instance you can tell there is no foot planting is when you throw on the run as soon as you press the button they throw instead of actually taking a step or two to gather themselves and throw which 2K8 does. But as a OVERALL GAME I think Madden 12 will be better than 2K5 and 2K8.

Madden and NCAA do have some foot planting in the game, but not nearly enough, or to an extent most people want. 2k football games have foot planting as well, but it is so over exaggerated which makes it so much more apparent. As much as I like 2k8, it really does overdo the whole momentum and foot planting aspects.

I think most of us would be happier if EA found the medium between what we have now and what 2k8 has. That would more than likely deliver the most realistic experience.

# 237 Ian_Cummings @ 06/17/11 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan


	As much as Phil and Ian have meant, there was seemingly a bit of "tunnel-vision." Madden had a certain feel to it, a way of playing that said "Madden."

If there's one point I can put across, it's that what you say above is 100% due to technology, and not vision. And Madden, when we joined, at the end of 09 for Phil and start of 10 for me, was in the unfortunate position of needing both major technology overhauls AND major feature additions...so you have to pick and choose where the limited time goes.

# 238 ODogg @ 06/17/11 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings


	If there's one point I can put across, it's that what you say above is 100% due to technology, and not vision. And Madden, when we joined, at the end of 09 for Phil and start of 10 for me, was in the unfortunate position of needing both major technology overhauls AND major feature additions...so you have to pick and choose where the limited time goes.

Yep, this is why many folks think we won't really get any major gameplay changes until the new systems in 2014. Unfortunately I'm sure we will lose about 25 features then as well and it'll take years to get them back, at least if the transition from ps2 and Xbox to ps3 and Xbox 360 was any indication of how the future for madden will be every time we go to new consoles..

# 239 ODogg @ 06/17/11 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	I would like to know why certain things, that were possible on games made years ago, weren't possible for Madden 10 or 11. Some of these things, that the community has been clamoring for, were implemented on inferior platforms. Things like ball trajectory, the pass rush, QB mechanics, oline/dline interaction, more realistic animations, proper foot-planting animations, better commentary, fleshed out presentation, I could go on and on. These are the things that a lot of people were asking for, and many of these things were done on inferior platforms, so I don't understand how technology, or lack there of, prevented the development team from implementing those.

Did you read my post? It's evident to me that he's saying the engine is what it is and until the technology of a new engine is implemented the game will always have certain limitations. I don't think he meant the industry technology prohibited anything but rather the game as it stands now limits things... Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I took his statement..

# 240 Only1LT @ 06/17/11 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	I would like to know why certain things, that were possible on games made years ago, weren't possible for Madden 10 or 11. Some of these things, that the community has been clamoring for, were implemented on inferior platforms. Things like ball trajectory, the pass rush, QB mechanics, oline/dline interaction, more realistic animations, proper foot-planting animations, better commentary, fleshed out presentation, I could go on and on. These are the things that a lot of people were asking for, and many of these things were done on inferior platforms, so I don't understand how technology, or lack there of, prevented the development team from implementing those.

Inferior platforms, yes, but also different tech running on those inferior platforms.

The current gen Madden isn't a port of last gen. They redesigned the game, from the ground up, with the intyention of having it play very similarly to last gen, but it is not a direct port.

It is possible to have worse underlying engines, on better hardware.

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