MLB 11 The Show News Post

MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

06:28 PM - January 24, 2011 by Russell_SCEA

This is a very very late addition/change to MLB 11 The Show. Kolbe and Jeff Ulman, one of our senior AI programmers, went into the cave this past weekend and re-wrote a massive amount of code for trades and off-season logic for franchise mode.

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# 321 VanillaGorilla @ 03/06/11 12:00 AM

I'll believe it when I see it.

# 322 Legionnaire @ 03/06/11 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight165


	I agree. While maybe not complicated(maybe it is....).... To lock a team into a SPECIFIC type of Front Office for an entire franchise simulation(one that could go indefinitely if you want in the game) would be much more unrealistic than any moves you might disagree with IMO. M.K. Knight165

I think the game (any sports game, really) would benefit from a fluid system that determines each team's goals in franchise/dynasty mode. There should be a small handful on each end of the spectrum, teams systematically building their farm system while neglecting the MLB talent level and teams decimating the farm system as they sell out for anybody who will help them win immediately at the MLB level. And of course there'd be a bunch of teams tilted one way or the other somewhere in the middle as they waffle between winning and building.

What I mean is: CPU teams should be able to switch gears. Teams should be able to evaluate themselves (and the young talent on the farm due up in a few years), assess where they're at (compared to the league, or just compared to the division competition, figuring out whether success is within reach or not), and use that determination to basically decide what "mode" they should be in. Full-on rebuilding mode? Full-on win-now mode? Some mixture of the two for teams who are waffling somewhere in the middle?

Maybe also have teams/GMs have a number of different "plans" to choose from as far as what type of personnel they're looking for. Maybe they try emphasizing pitching over hitting, or speed over slugging, or on-base percentage over tools, or groundball pitchers over strikeout pitchers. I know some teams try to do a little of everything, but it would give CPU-controlled front offices more personality if some of them actually picked a direction and noticeably stuck to a personnel strategy.

It'd just be cool if teams were programmed to assess themselves in order to figure out their big-picture plans, and also programmed to try a particular plan for which type of players to acquire.

Then after a handful of years, they re-evaluate and decide whether it's time to shift gears or switch personnel philosophy.

It'd be pretty complicated, I assume, since it would probably require a major overhaul of how franchise mode is built. And the casual gamer might not realize how much is going on under the hood. So maybe you'd need to have a newspaper or "blog" feature where the player can read headlines or rumors from around the league. So when a team shifts gears from rebuilding into actually trying to win, or so when a team makes a philosophical shift in what kind of players they want, you can read a blurb reporting about it so you know what's going on with all the other teams.

# 323 turpintine419 @ 03/06/11 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legionnaire


	I think the game (any sports game, really) would benefit from a fluid system that determines each team's goals in franchise/dynasty mode. There should be a small handful on each end of the spectrum, teams systematically building their farm system while neglecting the MLB talent level and teams decimating the farm system as they sell out for anybody who will help them win immediately at the MLB level. And of course there'd be a bunch of teams tilted one way or the other somewhere in the middle as they waffle between winning and building. What I mean is: CPU teams should be able to switch gears. Teams should be able to evaluate themselves (and the young talent on the farm due up in a few years), assess where they're at (compared to the league, or just compared to the division competition, figuring out whether success is within reach or not), and use that determination to basically decide what "mode" they should be in. Full-on rebuilding mode? Full-on win-now mode? Some mixture of the two for teams who are waffling somewhere in the middle? Maybe also have teams/GMs have a number of different "plans" to choose from as far as what type of personnel they're looking for. Maybe they try emphasizing pitching over hitting, or speed over slugging, or on-base percentage over tools, or groundball pitchers over strikeout pitchers. I know some teams try to do a little of everything, but it would give CPU-controlled front offices more personality if some of them actually picked a direction and noticeably stuck to a personnel strategy. It'd just be cool if teams were programmed to assess themselves in order to figure out their big-picture plans, and also programmed to try a particular plan for which type of players to acquire. Then after a handful of years, they re-evaluate and decide whether it's time to shift gears or switch personnel philosophy. It'd be pretty complicated, I assume, since it would probably require a major overhaul of how franchise mode is built. And the casual gamer might not realize how much is going on under the hood. So maybe you'd need to have a newspaper or "blog" feature where the player can read headlines or rumors from around the league. So when a team shifts gears from rebuilding into actually trying to win, or so when a team makes a philosophical shift in what kind of players they want, you can read a blurb reporting about it so you know what's going on with all the other teams.

The Show 10 had something similier to this, although I think it could of gone more in depth. Teams became sellers or buyers on a short term basis. I believe teams only bought or sold based on how a team was doing that season. A team like the Cubs would bounce from buyers to sellers back to buyers from year to year. The result of this was they never really accumulated enough MLB Talent to contend, and sold their strong Farm System for mediocre MLB Talent.

If this were to be fixed for a more long term AI thinking, A team like The Cubs could become Pereniall WS Contenders yearly.

# 324 bigdaddykraven @ 03/06/11 12:45 PM

I think the best way to combat this would be having hire-able GMs for computer-controlled teams (in franchise obviously YOU would be the hired GM). Then what you do is give these coaches and GMs personalities.

What I mean is that GMs have a style aggressive guys who always go out and try to make the trade or deal that wins now. GMs who are money conscious and move veterans when their team isn't the top 1-2 teams in the division for younger talent and the vets they do get are typically the cheaper, run-down vets who need a chance.

Now tie that in with Head Coaches who have a personality. Maybe this coach likes power guys. Maybe the coach plays small-ball or prefers old vets over new blood or vise versa. Then these two personalities play together for your team and teams can start getting a type.

So mixing this may have a defensive speedster team full of young, cheap guys. Obviously if this team type doesn't win after a few years the owner will fire the GM and/or the head coach which changes the dynamic of the team in the following years.

Now one more thing you could add in to the player is possibly a "team" attribute or two. This is what I'm thinking: Favorite Team (each person has a childhood favorite team), loyalty, fan favorite.

Favorite Team just shows their favorite team growing up where they'd like to play I'd venture to guess. If they happen to be on that team they'd maybe take a discount or possibly choose that team in FA when offering over a team close in contract offers to them.

Loyalty is that player's general loyalty toward teams. Meaning does he like to move around going to the next winner and give up on his current team or not.

Finally Fan Favorite would be a 2 part ranking. Fan Favorite for that team like a 1-10 ranking and National Ranking 1-10. For the team, if you were a GM who traded a guy that is a 10 (Jeter on the Yankees) then your fan base may be hugely affected for a bit and attendance drops for a bit. The National ranking is maybe a gage of how quickly they get popular and the draw they bring to new teams and when on the road for other teams.

Anyway, throw in some friendships between players and players to managers etc and maybe you start getting a realistic trading/free agent system in my opinion. Maybe a bit much but IMO those are all things that go into signing and trading players that's missing from the Show.

# 325 sink4ever @ 03/06/11 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdaddykraven


	I think the best way to combat this would be having hire-able GMs for computer-controlled teams (in franchise obviously YOU would be the hired GM). Then what you do is give these coaches and GMs personalities. What I mean is that GMs have a style aggressive guys who always go out and try to make the trade or deal that wins now. GMs who are money conscious and move veterans when their team isn't the top 1-2 teams in the division for younger talent and the vets they do get are typically the cheaper, run-down vets who need a chance. Now tie that in with Head Coaches who have a personality. Maybe this coach likes power guys. Maybe the coach plays small-ball or prefers old vets over new blood or vise versa. Then these two personalities play together for your team and teams can start getting a type. So mixing this may have a defensive speedster team full of young, cheap guys. Obviously if this team type doesn't win after a few years the owner will fire the GM and/or the head coach which changes the dynamic of the team in the following years. Now one more thing you could add in to the player is possibly a "team" attribute or two. This is what I'm thinking: Favorite Team (each person has a childhood favorite team), loyalty, fan favorite. Favorite Team just shows their favorite team growing up where they'd like to play I'd venture to guess. If they happen to be on that team they'd maybe take a discount or possibly choose that team in FA when offering over a team close in contract offers to them. Loyalty is that player's general loyalty toward teams. Meaning does he like to move around going to the next winner and give up on his current team or not. Finally Fan Favorite would be a 2 part ranking. Fan Favorite for that team like a 1-10 ranking and National Ranking 1-10. For the team, if you were a GM who traded a guy that is a 10 (Jeter on the Yankees) then your fan base may be hugely affected for a bit and attendance drops for a bit. The National ranking is maybe a gage of how quickly they get popular and the draw they bring to new teams and when on the road for other teams. Anyway, throw in some friendships between players and players to managers etc and maybe you start getting a realistic trading/free agent system in my opinion. Maybe a bit much but IMO those are all things that go into signing and trading players that's missing from the Show.

Good stuff, I've been thinking for a while about what I was going to put for the '12 wishlist. One thing I was thinking of was Owner Goals, GM Strategies, and Manager Personalities. That could create a little more individuality between teams with their different goals and approaches. I can't begin to imagine how insane this would be to code, but I'd love to see the series head in this direction over the next few years.

# 326 bigdaddykraven @ 03/06/11 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sink4ever


	Good stuff, I've been thinking for a while about what I was going to put for the '12 wishlist. One thing I was thinking of was Owner Goals, GM Strategies, and Manager Personalities. That could create a little more individuality between teams with their different goals and approaches. I can't begin to imagine how insane this would be to code, but I'd love to see the series head in this direction over the next few years.

Feel free to use that in the wish list. I always felt like the players could use more personality and the coaches should be a bigger part of the game. Just make sure you mention a full record book too. I'm dying for that. All Star Baseball 05 gave it to me and I've wanted it back since

# 327 sink4ever @ 03/06/11 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdaddykraven


	Feel free to use that in the wish list. I always felt like the players could use more personality and the coaches should be a bigger part of the game. Just make sure you mention a full record book too. I'm dying for that. All Star Baseball 05 gave it to me and I've wanted it back since

Yeah, I've been trying to think of several examples for each.

Owner Goals:
Win now at any cost
Be a consistent contender
Compete on a budget
Build for the future
Turn a good profit

Each one would have different standards/expectations of success, some looking for wins in the near future and some looking for the system to be built up. There would also be different budgets for each, possibly changing over time based on a number of factors.

GM Strategies:
Speed & Defense
Strong Pitching
Powerful Lineup
On Base Skills
Build through Draft
Build through IFA
Acquire Talent through Trades & Free Agency
Value athletic up-the-middle types
Stock up on pitchers in the system

I could see each GM maybe having sliders for each category, more or less likely to use a particular strategy to build up their team. GM's would be hire-able by the CPU and possibly value players more or less based on park factors.

Manager Personality:
Lineup
- speed at top
- OBP at top
- change lineup based on individual matchups
- etc
Bullpen Usage
- more likely to use matchups (L vs. L and R vs. R)
- more likely to use stats and past history when bringing in relievers
Game Managing
- likelihood to call for steals
- likelihood to call for hit-and-runs
- small ball, bunting, moving runners over

Anyway, that's just a few thoughts I had. It'd be neat to see Organizational Philosophies sculpt a team and minor league system over several years, or to see different teams pursuing different free agents because they're a good fit.

# 328 nomo17k @ 03/06/11 05:57 PM

I like watching these kinds of discussions develop in hope of some making into the future versions, but don't you think there should be dedicated threads for these types of things? Maybe franchise AI threads, etc. I doubt it would happen to this thread but the forum is moderated quite stringently and I hate to see substantive posts going down the drain just because the thread gets closed for nonrelated issues.

# 329 theaub @ 03/06/11 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sink4ever


	Yeah, I've been trying to think of several examples for each. Owner Goals: Win now at any cost Be a consistent contender Compete on a budget Build for the future Turn a good profit Each one would have different standards/expectations of success, some looking for wins in the near future and some looking for the system to be built up. There would also be different budgets for each, possibly changing over time based on a number of factors. GM Strategies: Speed & Defense Strong Pitching Powerful Lineup On Base Skills Build through Draft Build through IFA Acquire Talent through Trades & Free Agency Value athletic up-the-middle types Stock up on pitchers in the system I could see each GM maybe having sliders for each category, more or less likely to use a particular strategy to build up their team. GM's would be hire-able by the CPU and possibly value players more or less based on park factors. Manager Personality: Lineup - speed at top - OBP at top - change lineup based on individual matchups - etc Bullpen Usage - more likely to use matchups (L vs. L and R vs. R) - more likely to use stats and past history when bringing in relievers Game Managing - likelihood to call for steals - likelihood to call for hit-and-runs - small ball, bunting, moving runners over Anyway, that's just a few thoughts I had. It'd be neat to see Organizational Philosophies sculpt a team and minor league system over several years, or to see different teams pursuing different free agents because they're a good fit.

This is brilliant.

For managers you could also have stuff like playing young players/veterans, usage of bench late in games etc. I like this a lot.

# 330 BatsareBugs @ 03/06/11 07:04 PM

You need to account for the KT/San Diego GM's of the world, we need a strategy called: Dumpster Dive and Value young, no-name relievers.

# 331 sink4ever @ 03/06/11 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomo17k


	I like watching these kinds of discussions develop in hope of some making into the future versions, but don't you think there should be dedicated threads for these types of things? Maybe franchise AI threads, etc. I doubt it would happen to this thread but the forum is moderated quite stringently and I hate to see substantive posts going down the drain just because the thread gets closed for nonrelated issues.

Yeah, I was planning on waiting until '11 came out and the Wishlist section was set up for '12. This is more or less consistent with the theme of "franchise logic and decision making", but I do agree that this will be a good discussion to have in a more appropriate thread once it's available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theaub


	This is brilliant. For managers you could also have stuff like playing young players/veterans, usage of bench late in games etc. I like this a lot.

Haha, brilliant may be an overstatement, but I'm sure as a community we could put together some really good ideas. Young player/veteran and use of bench are great suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rag3vsW0rld


	You need to account for the KT/San Diego GM's of the world, we need a strategy called: Dumpster Dive and Value young, no-name relievers.

Good point. It would be nice to have different organizations have a different way of maximizing value while sticking to a lower budget.

# 332 tessl @ 04/21/11 03:13 PM

Massively changed, yes. Massively improved, not yet. Meanwhile manage mode remains glitched and individual pitches don't progress which renders part of training, bullpen session, a waste of time. Both of those problems have been widely reported over the years.

If your car had a flat tire would you fix the windshield wipers?

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