Madden NFL 11 News Post

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

02:46 PM - January 24, 2011 by RaychelSnr

I recentely sat down for a talk with FBGRatings.com's Dan Berens to discuss his site's vision and what's going on over there today. The site is currently working on getting accurate ratings for every player using real hard data converted into the Madden ratings universe. Dan claims that when these numbers are plugged into the game, it plays much better and much closer to real life. Check out the interview below and also check out Dan's website to see what he's got going on!

Interview with Berens on the OS Radio Show on BlogTalkRadio

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Member Comments

# 961 DCEBB2001 @ 07/25/13 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj_MyTime


	Your site seems popular enough, youd' wrather tinker around on a site instead of actually having the masses play with these adjusted ratinngs when we finally have roster share to see if they improve gameplay or not...? Seems a little strange you wouldnt be excited and want to submit your work, but you'll fluff it online???

The site was never designed to provide rosters. It was designed to incorporate real NFL scouting data into Madden NFL Football. So long as nobody is using the information to SELL roster files with the ratings published on the site, I'm fine with it. I already had to have the legal system shut down a few operations attempting to make a buck off of my hard work. So long as you don't sell it, I'm OK with you reproducing what I have for your own purposes.

# 962 Se7eN Purposes @ 07/26/13 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The site was never designed to provide rosters. It was designed to incorporate real NFL scouting data into Madden NFL Football. So long as nobody is using the information to SELL roster files with the ratings published on the site, I'm fine with it. I already had to have the legal system shut down a few operations attempting to make a buck off of my hard work. So long as you don't sell it, I'm OK with you reproducing what I have for your own purposes.

Do that many people actually use them? I'm kind of skeptical in my thinking that people would actually take the time to manually update it themselves. Perhaps a coder could be hired cheaply (or for free) which could create a program that would simply dump the data into a roster file? I agree, doing it by hand, even without running the site would simply be too much.

# 963 DCEBB2001 @ 07/26/13 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Se7eN Purposes


	Do that many people actually use them? I'm kind of skeptical in my thinking that people would actually take the time to manually update it themselves. Perhaps a coder could be hired cheaply (or for free) which could create a program that would simply dump the data into a roster file? I agree, doing it by hand, even without running the site would simply be too much.

Well, I entertain about a couple dozen emails a week with people asking about the site including roster production, so I guess there are enough people that want the rosters. I just don't have the time to produce them.

# 964 fxsundance32 @ 07/27/13 01:53 PM

2 years ago..

# 965 garret2 @ 08/11/13 03:16 PM

i noticed a lot of the player speeds changed! are you still using official combine 40 times or a new/updated method of rating speed?

# 966 DCEBB2001 @ 08/11/13 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garret2


	i noticed a lot of the player speeds changed! are you still using official combine 40 times or a new/updated method of rating speed?

All of the ratings have been adjusted to new methods. I spent a lot of time this offseason with experts in biomechanics, kinesiology, kinematics, strength training, and statistical analysis to derive more accurate numbers for rating all the attributes. The distribution is more realistic for all players and the ratings match the equal-interval scoring that the scouting data utilizes. As a result, you see more accurately how my scouting sources' data translates into Madden ratings. They use a numerical scale to quantify skills like we do, but their scale is different. I simply matched their data into the Madden system more accurately this year.

# 967 Tengo Juego @ 08/11/13 05:55 PM

I think the most curious development for these rosters would be seeing how they adjust over the course of a Franchise. It's pretty much what stops me from applying them and using them in any mode that isn't play now. And incoming players through the draft each off season would likely break the scale.

# 968 DCEBB2001 @ 08/11/13 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengo Juego


	I think the most curious development for these rosters would be seeing how they adjust over the course of a Franchise. It's pretty much what stops me from applying them and using them in any mode that isn't play now. And incoming players through the draft each off season would likely break the scale.

That is the dilemma. I made the decision to go another route with rating players as realistically as I could instead of adjusting them to EA's already broken system. I suppose in that sense, the site is more about how NFL players SHOULD be rated in EAs system if you were to refer to real NFL scouting data as the primary source material.

Now, if we were able to edit draft classes like we used to be able to do on PC, these concerns would all be null as you could control the draft classes.

# 969 mestevo @ 08/11/13 06:26 PM

Ratings are only relevant in the context of how they perform inside of a game engine, you're just converting statistics into an arbitrary rating at this point, with Madden serving as just motivation/a source of comparison. No?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

# 970 DCEBB2001 @ 08/11/13 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mestevo


	Ratings are only relevant in the context of how they perform inside of a game engine, you're just converting statistics into an arbitrary rating at this point, with Madden serving as just motivation/a source of comparison. No? Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

I suggest reading the OP of this thread as well as listening to the corresponding interview to get a better idea.

# 971 DCEBB2001 @ 08/12/13 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantBlue76


	D, Now that Madden has Madden Share, will you be releasing a roster file with all of your updated ratings? I'd be very interested if you did.

I stated this on one of the previous pages a few days ago. I will not be producing roster files. I have enough on my plate updating the site every week.

# 972 garret2 @ 08/15/13 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantBlue76


	Gotcha. Great job on the ratings. It's really too bad we can't have this in the only NFL game.

we can have these ratings in the game if someone (or a team) commits a lot of time to editing the roster and puts it on madden share. DCEBB2001 simply said that he wont be personally doing it. for instance, if we get 15 people to do 2 teams each, it could be done in a week or two. 1st person does 2 teams and uploads it to madden share and then 2nd person downloads the new file and does 2 more teams and uploads it again. the 3rd person downloads it and does 2 more teams and uploads it and so forth...

# 973 garret2 @ 08/15/13 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	All of the ratings have been adjusted to new methods. I spent a lot of time this offseason with experts in biomechanics, kinesiology, kinematics, strength training, and statistical analysis to derive more accurate numbers for rating all the attributes. The distribution is more realistic for all players and the ratings match the equal-interval scoring that the scouting data utilizes. As a result, you see more accurately how my scouting sources' data translates into Madden ratings. They use a numerical scale to quantify skills like we do, but their scale is different. I simply matched their data into the Madden system more accurately this year.

that sounds awesome! hopefully people will complain less about player speed, strength, etc. cause its straight from the scouts who watch/grade them every day

# 974 Ice_Cold345 @ 08/15/13 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	I would be down for a project like this,I am very curious to see how big an impact ratings adjustments have on player differential in Madden. I have seen some people claim it makes a difference and would like to see for myself. The flip side to that is, if adjusting ratings does in fact provide the player differential a believe is completely lacking in Madden currently, then I will be even more frustrated that Tiburon doesn't provide a factor setting like that. First things first though, I would like to see how much of an impact ratings have on game play.

I've only done a few teams on Madden 12 and holy moly, the game play is just amazing with CPU/CPU. SECElite had a custom sliders, like everything at 25(0 thres.) and it's somewhere on here. I've had to do it on my own since PS3 doesn't get the editor, but I let a Browns/Browns game play and it played so well. It ended up being like 27-13, but 14 of the winning Browns team came off late game Weeden picks inside his 30. It was fun to watch it and it had a very realistic number of plays on 13 mins. It takes a long while, but boy is it fun to watch.

Franchise is something that will be interesting, because needing to edit players so that the incoming rookie classes don't become the super players (luckily in Madden 12, you could edit player ratings.) Also, Trent Richardson was a monster for both Browns teams because of excellent linemen to run behind. It's awesome to see.

# 975 azdawgpound @ 08/15/13 09:55 PM

ok how do u get the rest of the ratings because certain ones u can't edit like throw power etc and power moves so the overalls are lower then whats stated..... I just did Joe Thomas it says he's an 89 overall but since u cant edit certain ones his overall is an 80.

so if we cant edit half the ratings almost all players are gonna be 10 points lower then whats stated in the ratings for fbg.

# 976 Ice_Cold345 @ 08/15/13 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azdawgpound


	ok how do u get the rest of the ratings because certain ones u can't edit like throw power etc and power moves so the overalls are lower then whats stated..... I just did Joe Thomas it says he's an 89 overall but since u cant edit certain ones his overall is an 80. so if we cant edit half the ratings almost all players are gonna be 10 points lower then whats stated in the ratings for fbg.

For Madden 12, I believe only the ratings that effect the overall are shown. And, I believe his ratings are based on the Madden 13 Overall formula, because I believe it changed from Madden 12 -> Madden 13.

# 977 azdawgpound @ 08/15/13 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice_Cold345


	For Madden 12, I believe only the ratings that effect the overall are shown. And, I believe his ratings are based on the Madden 13 Overall formula, because I believe it changed from Madden 12 -> Madden 13.

hmm ok I was gonna try this for 13 but wow if the overalls are gonna drop 10 overall points that be weird having a team like browns having the starting qb be a 60 overall. wonder how that would effect a ccm if u tried it? lol

# 978 DCEBB2001 @ 08/15/13 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garret2


	that sounds awesome! hopefully people will complain less about player speed, strength, etc. cause its straight from the scouts who watch/grade them every day

Actually the exact opposite happens. More people complain because they realize that the fastest players out there who have real speed are not who they think they were.

Case in point: Chris Johnson

http://www.fbgratings.com/members/pr...php?pyid=32966

CJ2K posted one of the fastest 40 times ever recorded at the NFL combine with a 4.24. However, his split time was 1.40 seconds, tying him for the fastest 10 yard split (measuring initial burst) ever. When you plot his splits and differentiate, you find that his acceleration is tops ever, which is why his ACC is a 99.

His SPD, however, is only a 90, because his maximum velocity over the course of the last 30 yards of the run is elite, but not amazing.

Ponder this: CJ2K's 40 time is great because of his great initial burst, yet he reached his top velocity at 32 yards into his run. He actually SLOWED DOWN after 32 yards. World class sprinters, however, reach their maximum velocity at 60-80m. Football players are made to get up to speed quickly in short areas (like the confined dimensions of a football field). CJ2K excels at this. However, his SPD, although elite, is not the best the NFL has ever seen. His ACC, however, is (or is at least tied for best ever).

The fastest time ever recorded for a 10yd split is 1.40 by CJ2K and several others including Jermain Austin, Justin King, Cedric Peerman, Antwon Blake, Jerron McMillian, and Trevor Coston. However, none of these guys posted speed ratings in the 90s. So although they had equal acceleration to CJ2K, they were at least 5 points behind:

CJ2K: 99 ACC, 90 SPD
Austin: 99 ACC, 70 SPD
King: 99 ACC, 85 SPD
Peerman: 99 ACC 84 SPD
Blake: 99 ACC, 85 SPD
McMillian: 99 ACC, 83 SPD
Coston: 99 ACC, 80 SPD

As you can see, what separates CJ2K isn't necessarily his speed OR acceleration, but rather, it is his speed AND acceleration that makes him fast. Few players have both SPD and ACC rating over 90. 189 players since 1997 have an ACC rating of 90+. 396 players have a SPD rating of 90+ in that same span. However, only 13 have had BOTH including:

CJ2K: SPD 90, ACC 99
Yamon Figurs: SPD 91, ACC, 90
Michael Ray Garvin: SPD 91, ACC 97
Darrius Heyward-Bey: SPD 92, ACC 94
Deon Butler: SPD 90, ACC 90
Jocoby Ford: SPD 95, ACC 92
Tiquan Underwood: SPD 90, ACC 90
Geoffrey Pope: SPD 90, ACC 95
Chris Williams (New Mexico State): SPD 90, ACC 94
DeMarcus Van ****: SPD 94, ACC 90
Johnny Knox: SPD 91, ACC 90
Cody Pearcy: SPD 90, ACC 90
Jay Hinton: SPD 91, ACC 90

Compare that to the player with the best SPD since 1997, Reggie Dunn of Utah, and now the Pittsburgh Steelers. Dunn's acceleration may be just above average for a WR at 84 due to his 10 yard split of 1.52s, but he covered the final 30 yards in 2.70s, giving him sole possession of the 99 SPD rating. So in terms of raw SPD, he has it. His ACC and SPD combination will allow him to run a 40 in 4.22s, just a hair better than CJ2K's 4.24. However, at the start, CJ2K will blow him out of the water.

As you can see, the ratings at FBG may look strange and odd to those used to EA's overuse of high ratings and lack of a true data-based distribution, but once you analyze the logic behind it, you come to find that it is a more sound way of rating players as close to true-to-life as possible.

The science doesn't lie.

# 979 DCEBB2001 @ 08/15/13 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azdawgpound


	ok how do u get the rest of the ratings because certain ones u can't edit like throw power etc and power moves so the overalls are lower then whats stated..... I just did Joe Thomas it says he's an 89 overall but since u cant edit certain ones his overall is an 80. so if we cant edit half the ratings almost all players are gonna be 10 points lower then whats stated in the ratings for fbg.

You would need the ability to edit all of the ratings to get the full effect like with the assistance of an editor.

The reason your OVR doesn't match up is also because the formula for OVR calculations have changed. I will update the formulas once the new game drops.

# 980 DCEBB2001 @ 08/15/13 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azdawgpound


	hmm ok I was gonna try this for 13 but wow if the overalls are gonna drop 10 overall points that be weird having a team like browns having the starting qb be a 60 overall. wonder how that would effect a ccm if u tried it? lol

Well you are lucky so far because Weeden and Campbell are both at 70 and 69 so far...just hope they don't get hurt cause then you are down to Hoyer and he is only a 64.

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