Madden NFL 11 News Post

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

02:46 PM - January 24, 2011 by RaychelSnr

I recentely sat down for a talk with FBGRatings.com's Dan Berens to discuss his site's vision and what's going on over there today. The site is currently working on getting accurate ratings for every player using real hard data converted into the Madden ratings universe. Dan claims that when these numbers are plugged into the game, it plays much better and much closer to real life. Check out the interview below and also check out Dan's website to see what he's got going on!

Interview with Berens on the OS Radio Show on BlogTalkRadio

Game: Madden NFL 11Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments

# 741 at23steelers @ 07/06/12 11:41 PM

Im a Steelers fan (obviously) so I'll chime in too about the above post. First, forget what Donny has to define what is above average and elite. The best thing to do, as you did in a few points, is to compare players. I will give you, that 33 does seem a bit low for AB, however he won't be returning kicks this season, so won't matter much there. Also, talking about won't matter much, Will Allen hardly sees the field, so I think his overall might be even too generous. Im a huge Ike Taylor fan and while there may be a couple corners an overall point ahead of him, his specific attributes seem pretty darn accurate to me. He has excellent speed and man coverage ability. Decent awareness, tackling (for a CB) and press coverage ability, while having average zone coverage ability. Not sure why Donny consistently has Ike as a better zone corner, because from what I can tell, it seems the opposite. What he most struggles with is catching the football and placing the ball in the air. DCEBB is their a rating for that?

# 742 DCEBB2001 @ 07/07/12 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by at23steelers


	Im a Steelers fan (obviously) so I'll chime in too about the above post. First, forget what Donny has to define what is above average and elite. The best thing to do, as you did in a few points, is to compare players. I will give you, that 33 does seem a bit low for AB, however he won't be returning kicks this season, so won't matter much there. Also, talking about won't matter much, Will Allen hardly sees the field, so I think his overall might be even too generous. Im a huge Ike Taylor fan and while there may be a couple corners an overall point ahead of him, his specific attributes seem pretty darn accurate to me. He has excellent speed and man coverage ability. Decent awareness, tackling (for a CB) and press coverage ability, while having average zone coverage ability. Not sure why Donny consistently has Ike as a better zone corner, because from what I can tell, it seems the opposite. What he most struggles with is catching the football and placing the ball in the air. DCEBB is their a rating for that?

The only ratings for that are CTH, SPC, CIT, and JMP. I have lots of data that determines that, but Madden does not have a specific attribute for playing the ball in the air.

# 743 at23steelers @ 07/07/12 01:37 PM

I guess that's what the DPP is for, which is like aggressive or conservative when ball is in the air. A guy like Mike Wallace never tries to make the tough catches, which can be irritating compared to someone like AB. That's Ike's greatest weakness BY FAR though, if you ask most Steelers fans. He can have great coverage, but once he turns his head, he has trouble a lot of tracking the football. Don't you think there should be an attribute for that?

# 744 DCEBB2001 @ 07/07/12 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by at23steelers


	I guess that's what the DPP is for, which is like aggressive or conservative when ball is in the air. A guy like Mike Wallace never tries to make the tough catches, which can be irritating compared to someone like AB. That's Ike's greatest weakness BY FAR though, if you ask most Steelers fans. He can have great coverage, but once he turns his head, he has trouble a lot of tracking the football. Don't you think there should be an attribute for that?

There are tons of attributes that coaches and scouts evaluate that are not a part of the Madden ratings system as it stands. Locate/find ball, differentiation between throwing a ball far and throwing a ball hard, balance, leverage, etc. I love how the guys at 2K Sports handled all of the attributes AND abilities in NBA 2K12. It's kind of like adding tendencies, but a bit more in depth. I hope EA considers something like this. To me, SPM and JKM are not really attributes, but abilities that are a function separate from AGI. Some guys have great overall agility, but can't employ a spin move to save their lives. Other guys have very low agility, but have the ability to see a cutback lane, stick their foot in the ground, and accelerate laterally. That is why I try to differentiate between overall agility and those special moves in the FBG ratings. Adrian Peterson had very above average overall agility and hip movement because he is not that type of runner. What he does employ is a great ability to stick his foot in the ground and get North and South. I like how he employs that JKM via a cut instead of trying to run around a player at speed. THAT is the difference to me. EA just seems to take any player with high agility and give him high JKM and SPM ratings when at times it doesn't follow. I hate that.

# 745 Sausage @ 07/07/12 06:19 PM

Could someone give some gameplay impressions with these rosters, please. Also how long did it take to adjust for each team? May try them out.

Thanks

# 746 DCEBB2001 @ 07/07/12 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausage


	Could someone give some gameplay impressions with these rosters, please. Also how long did it take to adjust for each team? May try them out. Thanks

There are some gameplay testimonials in this thread. You would have to look around to find them, but there are some in here. As for editing, it takes me at least an hour per team if you are moving at a good pace. The good thing is that all of the players on the site have their attributes in order so you just have to follow one by one and possibly change some positions around. I am presently working on a roster for the FFXIII Madden 08 Mod and that is also about an hour per team. I would recommend just doing two teams and play it a bunch. You could easily do that in an evening.

# 747 caballero @ 07/11/12 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The only ratings for that are CTH, SPC, CIT, and JMP. I have lots of data that determines that, but Madden does not have a specific attribute for playing the ball in the air.

huh, awareness?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	There are tons of attributes that coaches and scouts evaluate that are not a part of the Madden ratings system as it stands. Locate/find ball, differentiation between throwing a ball far and throwing a ball hard, balance, leverage, etc. I love how the guys at 2K Sports handled all of the attributes AND abilities in NBA 2K12. It's kind of like adding tendencies, but a bit more in depth. I hope EA considers something like this. To me, SPM and JKM are not really attributes, but abilities that are a function separate from AGI. Some guys have great overall agility, but can't employ a spin move to save their lives. Other guys have very low agility, but have the ability to see a cutback lane, stick their foot in the ground, and accelerate laterally. That is why I try to differentiate between overall agility and those special moves in the FBG ratings. Adrian Peterson had very above average overall agility and hip movement because he is not that type of runner. What he does employ is a great ability to stick his foot in the ground and get North and South. I like how he employs that JKM via a cut instead of trying to run around a player at speed. THAT is the difference to me. EA just seems to take any player with high agility and give him high JKM and SPM ratings when at times it doesn't follow. I hate that.

good insight, makes me reconsider AB's low agility rating (still too low btw lol)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	Ourlads disagrees.

meh, I'll write Dan (Shonka), 4.42 40yd, can't tackle great, returns kicks... Lefeged is a Free Safety!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	My best friend nearly killed Manual Ramirez's knees in a bowl game once

as in the backup/third tier Bronco guard?
kewl buddy you got there, going at an OL's knees, but it doesn't help your point, almost doesn't count!
Allen BLEW McGahee's knee, it wasn't luck either, it was a naaaaaasty hit. I didn't ask for his overall to be changed, just his Hit Power to be realistic (50? any OFFENSIVE lineman should have that lol)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	Opinion? Once again stats do not equal ratings in this system. Unlike Donny I use only verifiable scouting data from NFL sources. I do not use basic stats.

when you have a guy with 50+ net average punting and he's rated an 89 in Kick Power, there's something wrong with your ratings. Go in practice mode with Andy Lee (the 50+ net guy) on normal sliders and try to hit a 50 yard punt and you'll see what I mean... the guy had 50+ yards on AVERAGE, you'd be lucky to get 44.0 with 89 KP!

It's not so much a critic as an opening to listen more to feedback and be open to modify/ameliorate your ratings, instead of "hiding" behind those mystery sources/data you have.
I remind you scouting data had Brady as a 6th rounder, Victor Cruz undrafted but Crabtree a first rounder, etc...

If I find the time to post them I'll list my M13 kicker and punter ratings...

# 748 DCEBB2001 @ 07/11/12 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caballero


	huh, awareness? good insight, makes me reconsider AB's low agility rating (still too low btw lol) meh, I'll write Dan (Shonka), 4.42 40yd, can't tackle great, returns kicks... Lefeged is a Free Safety! as in the backup/third tier Bronco guard? kewl buddy you got there, going at an OL's knees, but it doesn't help your point, almost doesn't count! Allen BLEW McGahee's knee, it wasn't luck either, it was a naaaaaasty hit. I didn't ask for his overall to be changed, just his Hit Power to be realistic (50? any OFFENSIVE lineman should have that lol)... when you have a guy with 50+ net average punting and he's rated an 89 in Kick Power, there's something wrong with your ratings. Go in practice mode with Andy Lee (the 50+ net guy) on normal sliders and try to hit a 50 yard punt and you'll see what I mean... the guy had 50+ yards on AVERAGE, you'd be lucky to get 44.0 with 89 KP! It's not so much a critic as an opening to listen more to feedback and be open to modify/ameliorate your ratings, instead of "hiding" behind those mystery sources/data you have. I remind you scouting data had Brady as a 6th rounder, Victor Cruz undrafted but Crabtree a first rounder, etc... If I find the time to post them I'll list my M13 kicker and punter ratings...

I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree on much of this. It all comes down to interpretation.

# 749 Guru03 @ 07/12/12 06:36 PM

Are these ratings the ratings that will be in Madden 13? I hope not because these ratings are terrible and when I looked at the Cardinals & Packer ratings there were nearly the same amount of players rated the same ratings per team. This is worse than Donny Moore's ratings.

# 750 TajDeni @ 07/12/12 07:34 PM

In regards to how the ratings of this thread are formulated, how would one go about handling incoming generated draft classes; in order to maintain the integrity of the benefits that these ratings provide years into one's franchise?

# 751 DCEBB2001 @ 07/13/12 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru03


	Are these ratings the ratings that will be in Madden 13? I hope not because these ratings are terrible and when I looked at the Cardinals & Packer ratings there were nearly the same amount of players rated the same ratings per team. This is worse than Donny Moore's ratings.

GB has 4 players over 90. AZ has 2.

GB has 15 in the 80s. AZ has 13 in the 80s.

GB has 16 in the 70s. AZ has 23 in the 70s.

GB has more talent at the top of their roster in positions that are very important. When you look at the NFL, the parody and "hot" team making a run is function of all these teams being very close to one another. In 2010, GB has 6 regular season losses with none by more than 4 points. Yet, they went on to win the Super Bowl. This is the reality of the NFL. The differences between average players is so slim, that starters are often challenged to keep their starting jobs year in and year out. The elite athletes in the league stand out in this system. Unlike EA's ratings, there are less than 90 players rated over 90. 70, not 80, is the true average for an average player in the league.

I suggest you try the rosters out in a game of M12 and see how they play. Also, read the thread and see what others are saying and get a gauge for what the FBG Ratings are trying to achieve. Anyone can come in here, look at the ratings, and simply throw their hands up in anger at the stretched out, lower overall, ratings without trying them. Most of the answers to any questions you have can be found in this thread.

# 752 DCEBB2001 @ 07/13/12 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TajDeni


	In regards to how the ratings of this thread are formulated, how would one go about handling incoming generated draft classes; in order to maintain the integrity of the benefits that these ratings provide years into one's franchise?

At some point we would have to be able to edit the draft classes. The fixes are simple, but the closed nature of CC will not allow this. I have mulled using some of the same techniques using EAs ways of rating players but that would go against everything I believe in regards to how players should be evaluated and ratings be interpolated. I can only polish a turd so much.

# 753 DCEBB2001 @ 07/13/12 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caballero


	wow... really?

The bottom line is I cannot make everyone happy. This system works for me and a few OS users. I am not asking to make everyone agree with me. To those who try the ratings out in-game, use them, and like them...great! To those who don't...that's alright too. I continue to stick to my guns on the player ratings and, as I have stated before, do not think it would do the correct amount of justice in my mind if I were to use some of the rating habits exhibited by EA and the guys at Tiburon. This site is my personal effort to do things using the information I have at my disposal and interpolate that data to the best of my ability...no more, no less.

# 754 TajDeni @ 07/13/12 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TajDeni


	In regards to how the ratings of this thread are formulated, how would one go about handling incoming generated draft classes; in order to maintain the integrity of the benefits that these ratings provide years into one's franchise?

my bad for not being specific....

i meant for M12 and what can I do personally with the generated draft classes to keep them on par with your re-rated rosters. i ask all this because im assuming that your doing all this because you believe that your rosters significantly improve upon the gameplay experience. at this moment i dont know if im going to purchase M13, so unless that changes, im going to purchase M12 and roll from there.

# 755 DCEBB2001 @ 07/13/12 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TajDeni


	my bad for not being specific.... i meant for M12 and what can I do personally with the generated draft classes to keep them on par with your re-rated rosters. i ask all this because im assuming that your doing all this because you believe that your rosters significantly improve upon the gameplay experience. at this moment i dont know if im going to purchase M13, so unless that changes, im going to purchase M12 and roll from there.

There are ways to get the Madden 12 ratings for rookies to beter replicate the FBG system. I have not posted the directions for doing so and wasn't going to for Madden 12. However, since CC came out without the ability to edit, I may have to dedicate a page to this on the site for Madden 12 users. Let me see if I can get a guide posted sometime soon. If, however, the guys at EA once again change the formulas for determining the OVR again, most of my work will be toward changing the OVR rating calculations again to equate with that of Madden 13. If I do post that guide I will post it here on OS so everyone will know.

In the meantime, I encourage you to try the ratings out in Madden 12 to see if you get the results you want. I don't have a slider set though because so many people play so many different ways. You will have to mess with those. Keep the SPD threshold high, however. That will yield the most realistic results.

# 756 TonGunne @ 07/15/12 01:42 AM

Hey, anyone tested a franchise with these rosters? What about the stats of the others teams?

# 757 Find_the_Door @ 07/15/12 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	There are ways to get the Madden 12 ratings for rookies to beter replicate the FBG system. I have not posted the directions for doing so and wasn't going to for Madden 12. However, since CC came out without the ability to edit, I may have to dedicate a page to this on the site for Madden 12 users. Let me see if I can get a guide posted sometime soon. If, however, the guys at EA once again change the formulas for determining the OVR again, most of my work will be toward changing the OVR rating calculations again to equate with that of Madden 13. If I do post that guide I will post it here on OS so everyone will know. In the meantime, I encourage you to try the ratings out in Madden 12 to see if you get the results you want. I don't have a slider set though because so many people play so many different ways. You will have to mess with those. Keep the SPD threshold high, however. That will yield the most realistic results.

Umm I'm sorry but your assessment of Brandon Carr. He's well know for his exceptional Press Man coverage yet you have him rated poorly in both categories?

Same with Claiborne

# 758 DCEBB2001 @ 07/15/12 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batum Shaka Laka


	Umm I'm sorry but your assessment of Brandon Carr. He's well know for his exceptional Press Man coverage yet you have him rated poorly in both categories? Same with Claiborne

To start, Claiborne is a rookie. Becoming a press/man CB in the NFL is one of the hardest things to do in the game. If those ratings are going to rise, he will have to prove he can be outstanding in both, consistently, in the NFL. College production means nothing unless you are able to take your game to the next level. If he does, then those ratings will rise.

As for Carr, the consistency is the other thing he needs more of. He is a very good MCV CB coming off of a decent contract season, but still needs to be more consistent. He can play lock down at times but will still bite on some double moves as well. 80 is very good MCV for a CB in this league. The highest so far is only a 98 and there are only 15 players with a MCV rating over 90, regardless of position. Carr is great at getting an initial 'pop' on a receiver but can lose them at times as well when they get back on top of the route. His high STR (62) for a CB reflects that, but his lower PRS rating reflects the latter. Once again, if he can show in Dallas that he can consistently do this (I live in Dallas and listen to 105.3 and 103.3 all day while at work and have heard that he has been having some coverage issues this offseason) then his ratings will also rise in these categories.

The cool thing is that they will be updated monthly during the season, so you will be able to track the progress.

# 759 TonGunne @ 07/17/12 08:47 PM

I see that injured players had a drop to the ratings... I will start a franchise with your "rosters" but Phil Taylor is a 40Ovr rating, what I have to change for players injured have real ratings?

Sorry for my english, I'm from Brazil.

# 760 DCEBB2001 @ 07/18/12 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonGunne


	I see that injured players had a drop to the ratings... I will start a franchise with your "rosters" but Phil Taylor is a 40Ovr rating, what I have to change for players injured have real ratings? Sorry for my english, I'm from Brazil.

I guess you can raise his attributes a bit, but you won't be able to see the actual new ratings until he recovers and his OVR goes up again.

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