Madden NFL 11 News Post

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

02:46 PM - January 24, 2011 by RaychelSnr

I recentely sat down for a talk with FBGRatings.com's Dan Berens to discuss his site's vision and what's going on over there today. The site is currently working on getting accurate ratings for every player using real hard data converted into the Madden ratings universe. Dan claims that when these numbers are plugged into the game, it plays much better and much closer to real life. Check out the interview below and also check out Dan's website to see what he's got going on!

Interview with Berens on the OS Radio Show on BlogTalkRadio

Game: Madden NFL 11Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 96 - View All

Madden NFL 11 Videos

Member Comments

# 681 RogueHominid @ 05/31/12 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	Accounting for question #2 is not the most important thing in this project though. It is about utilizing real-world information to create Madden ratings that better reflect the data.

Cool. Thanks for the responses, and good luck with the work!

# 682 DCEBB2001 @ 05/31/12 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trojan Man


	Cool. Thanks for the responses, and good luck with the work!

Thanks. Check out the original post for more information on the details of the project.

# 683 Colts18 @ 06/01/12 09:04 AM

Yea that is the thing you always have to remember when creating rosters.

1. Simmed stats
2. Gameplay performance
3. Animation triggers

I wish it was as simeple as gameplay performance but it isn't.

Madden needs morein depth player tendencies like NBA 2k.

# 684 DCEBB2001 @ 06/01/12 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts18


	Yea that is the thing you always have to remember when creating rosters. 1. Simmed stats 2. Gameplay performance 3. Animation triggers I wish it was as simeple as gameplay performance but it isn't. Madden needs morein depth player tendencies like NBA 2k.

That seems like something for the Madden developers need to deal with. I don't deal with these issues. I deal with the over-inflation and ratings accuracy issues. However, there are several testimonies in this thread and in others that attest to FBG ratings offering more accurate gameplay. You will have to read up on those or try them for yourself.

# 685 caballero @ 06/21/12 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	So LBs would have speed in the 90s for runnin 4.5s and WRs would have SPD attributes in the low 80s for only running a 4.45. Just seemed whack to me. I do endorse you trying it out in-game and giving us a report. Your findings would be beneficial to the project.

Can you elaborate? Is this the reason why Boldin has a 75 or so in speed? I feel he'll never get open with a rating like that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	In response to #1, Gore was coming off of a hip injury in 2010. All the ratings you see right now are from JUNE, 2011. They will all be updated again in July. Injuries affect the OVR rating. In response to #2, I do not account for flaws in the gameplay like the patty caking. I only use the scouting data and measurables to derive the ratings on a scale that is more "realistic" as I see it. In other words, average actually has meaning.

Nevermind the data sometimes. If a virtual player looks slower than his real life counterpart, you have to adjust fbgratings for said player (see Boldin comment above, and yes, I know about his slow 40, but he can't separate from LB's with a 75 spd rating! lol).

And it's not only about speed:

-Outside rush
It's broken in this year's version, the only way to "fix" it is to boost all inside offensive lineman to 99 pass blocking (there's threads about this)

-zigzagging
Only way around it is to decrease agility rating for everyone (there's threads about this)

Do you play the game Dan? (I do, almost a thousand online games in M12)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gportillo52


	Alright gentleman I finally finished going over about 99% and editing every players SPD,AGI,STR,ACC and JMP ratings based on the GREAT website of FBG ratings. All rosters are absolutely update also, except the incoming rookies are not in the game so no updates for them. Here is the link with more information; http://www.fbgratings.com/members/teams.php I absolutely love the fact that those ratings play a major part in how each player plays in the game!, I want to say there are about 7 or 8 99 overall players in the game altogether with most being QB'S'; P.Manning,Brady,Rodgers,Brees,etc. If anybody is interested on the new ratings based on the above websites grading scale and again only for those attributes show me how to upload for the PS3 and you tell me how you it plays for you!.

I PM'd you.

# 686 Playmakers @ 06/22/12 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caballero


	Can you elaborate? Is this the reason why Boldin has a 75 or so in speed? I feel he'll never get open with a rating like that... Nevermind the data sometimes. If a virtual player looks slower than his real life counterpart, you have to adjust fbgratings for said player (see Boldin comment above, and yes, I know about his slow 40, but he can't separate from LB's with a 75 spd rating! lol).

Sure he can be effective because of his Route Run Rating even with 75 speed he can still get open much better than a Speed WR if his Route Running and awareness ratings are high.

Too many guys waiste time debating speed and very rarely understand the other ratings tied into a certain position like WR and how those ratings IMPACT a player on the field.

It's like a Offensive Linemen in Madden he can strength in the 90's but if his awareness is terrible he'll suck on the field. Your better off with a OL that has great Pass BLock footwork ratings and awareness as opposed to a guy with just a high strength rating in this game.

# 687 menglish20 @ 06/22/12 12:27 PM

I really can't stand the raw physical ratings given by the Madden team. Linemen have insane accelerations, WRs and RBs have insane speed. Jumping seems like they just guess. It's all a mess. If there are any ratings you can accurately quantify, it is the raw physical attributes. No more linebackers with 90+ strength or tackles with 90+ acceleration. It's a joke.

# 688 mpeterso @ 06/22/12 02:47 PM

Curious... is all this attribute calibrating now moot that Madden13 won't allow any roster editing other than in 'play now' mode? Don't get me wrong, it still applies to Madden12, but it sounds like Madden13's rosters will be totally controlled by EA.

# 689 DCEBB2001 @ 06/22/12 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caballero


	Can you elaborate? Is this the reason why Boldin has a 75 or so in speed? I feel he'll never get open with a rating like that... Nevermind the data sometimes. If a virtual player looks slower than his real life counterpart, you have to adjust fbgratings for said player (see Boldin comment above, and yes, I know about his slow 40, but he can't separate from LB's with a 75 spd rating! lol). And it's not only about speed: -Outside rush It's broken in this year's version, the only way to "fix" it is to boost all inside offensive lineman to 99 pass blocking (there's threads about this) -zigzagging Only way around it is to decrease agility rating for everyone (there's threads about this) Do you play the game Dan? (I do, almost a thousand online games in M12) I PM'd you.

In response to Boldin's SPD rating, his 4.72 40 time equates to that 75 SPD. His strong RTE (94) and REL (93) ratings should allow him to beat the jam and get open fluidly. Will he garner a ton of separation? No. However, when you do throw the ball his way, he should come down with it due to his 97 CTH, 99 SPC, and 99 CIT. Plus, his TRK (78), ELU (86), BCV (86), SFA (86), SPM (92) and JKM (95) attributes will allow him to do what Boldin does best - run effectively after the catch.

In response to the game flaws/issues regarding the outside rush/zig zagging, you may want to contact the developers of the game for those are issues out of my control.

I do play the game every year, but never play online, as I find it not as enjoyable as doing what I do with the website.

# 690 DCEBB2001 @ 06/22/12 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmakers


	Sure he can be effective because of his Route Run Rating even with 75 speed he can still get open much better than a Speed WR if his Route Running and awareness ratings are high. Too many guys waiste time debating speed and very rarely understand the other ratings tied into a certain position like WR and how those ratings IMPACT a player on the field. It's like a Offensive Linemen in Madden he can strength in the 90's but if his awareness is terrible he'll suck on the field. Your better off with a OL that has great Pass BLock footwork ratings and awareness as opposed to a guy with just a high strength rating in this game.

My thoughts exactly. Boldin's RAC abilities and ability to pull in the ball in the tightest of spaces should be effective enough to cover his marginal athletecism (in comparison to guys like Hester, CJ, Harvin, etc...).

# 691 DCEBB2001 @ 06/22/12 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by menglish20


	I really can't stand the raw physical ratings given by the Madden team. Linemen have insane accelerations, WRs and RBs have insane speed. Jumping seems like they just guess. It's all a mess. If there are any ratings you can accurately quantify, it is the raw physical attributes. No more linebackers with 90+ strength or tackles with 90+ acceleration. It's a joke.

This is the key assumption that determined how I would rate players. We have all this valuable, quatifiable data...why not use it and see how it goes?

# 692 DCEBB2001 @ 06/22/12 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpeterso


	Curious... is all this attribute calibrating now moot that Madden13 won't allow any roster editing other than in 'play now' mode? Don't get me wrong, it still applies to Madden12, but it sounds like Madden13's rosters will be totally controlled by EA.

It will be moot for Madden 13 if you want to use them in CC, but EA will bring back player editing for Madden 14 hopefully. In the meantime, I will continue to rate players for Madden regardless of what EA issues to the gaming community for a product this season.

# 693 at23steelers @ 06/22/12 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	My thoughts exactly. Boldin's RAC abilities and ability to pull in the ball in the tightest of spaces should be effective enough to cover his marginal athletecism (in comparison to guys like Hester, CJ, Harvin, etc...).

Too many people are trying to correlate Boldin's speed that you said to the speed we know of that is used in Madden. But when everyone has the speed that Dcebb rates them, everyone's speed will be scaled down. Im not saying Boldin will be fast in his scale, but he probably won't be as slow as some people may think!

# 694 DCEBB2001 @ 06/22/12 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by at23steelers


	Too many people are trying to correlate Boldin's speed that you said to the speed we know of that is used in Madden. But when everyone has the speed that Dcebb rates them, everyone's speed will be scaled down. Im not saying Boldin will be fast in his scale, but he probably won't be as slow as some people may think!

Well you make a good point here. I think that this system takes some getting used to. I get a lot of emails from people saying that why is so and so's speed rated so low, etc. In this way of ratings players, the average is truly an average. An 80 speed is no longer average for an NFL player; 70 is. This is the same for all other normalized raw attributes and dynamic attributes for each position. The normalization may make it seem like some players are "too slow" in comparison to how EA rates players. But keep in mind that ALL PLAYERS in my database have undergone this change. It's not that Boldin is the only player who went from an 86 SPD or whatever to a 75. All other players are normalized as well, at other positions. Tramon Williams only has a SPD of 81 in my system. Nnamdi only has ACC and AGI of 78, not that he needs it with his 99 MCV, ZCV, and PRS ratings to go with a 61 STR rating. Have fun getting off of the jam against that as Ted Ginn who only sports 52 STR and 85 REL ratings. This system requires that you pay attention to other attributes aside from STR, SPD, ACC, AGI, and JMP and consider the COMBINATION of all other attributes as they work as a whole for a given player.

In the above mentioned example, Boldin may be average in some raw attributes, but his REL and RTE attributes should get him open enough to employ his great SPC/CIT/CTH ratings and then proceed to plow over secondary players with his solid TRK/SFA ratings OR simly cut past them with his very good SPM and JKM ratings. Gone are the days of simply running fly routes with anyone. Now you have to tailor an offense to your specific players flaws and strengths. With Boldin, you can thrown the quick slant or a double move and watch him run after the catch. With a guy like Ginn, you can go deep and hope he comes down with it, but good luck having him hold on to a ball in traffic.

This system isn't for everyone, but it works for me and I am just glad that some other people enjoy it as much as I do.

# 695 jerwoods @ 06/22/12 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	It will be moot for Madden 13 if you want to use them in CC, but EA will bring back player editing for Madden 14 hopefully. In the meantime, I will continue to rate players for Madden regardless of what EA issues to the gaming community for a product this season.

Dan i am a big fan of yours keep the good work

# 696 DCEBB2001 @ 06/22/12 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerwoods


	Dan i am a big fan of yours keep the good work

Thanks man, it is greatly appreciated. Your gratitude makes this whole process worth while. My sincere thanks!

# 697 DCEBB2001 @ 06/23/12 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	Sucks about the no editing in CC because I had intentions of at least starting out with your ratings. I still think you should be an EAGC or at the least, a CE attendee next year. You seem to fit the criteria of helping the Madden community, you should apply man. Justin Dewiel posted an application link somewhere around here, I know there are plenty of us that would love to have you at Tiburon interacting with the ratings "team". Matter of fact, I tracked down his post from another thread the link and I hope you apply.

Thanks for your vote of confidence. I will apply and see if they get back to me. After I had that phone interview (more like a conference call) with about 5 members of the development team last summer regarding a M13 position, I think I have changed my opinion about those guys a bit. The fact that they flat out told me that most of their ratings are "pressured" by the marketing entities at EA/Tiburon/NFL made me believe that the ratings issues will never be fixed. They really seemed to have their hands tied with pressure from above to do things a particular way. I used to think that these devs had total control over the development of the game but I was disappointed to find that they have very little power. Guess they are the drones...around merely to do the work. I also got the impression that Donny Moore has no clue what he is doing. I spoke with him exclusively for about 5 minutes and picked his brain about where he gets his info. He never mentioned anything about data, just watching games and clips. That was severely disappointing. I got the impression that these devs want to do more with the game for the better, but they simply are not allowed to - their leashes are too short. What I would prefer someday, was that they enlisted FBG to do their ratings for them, should they agree with the methodology. Kind of like "Madden Ratings powered by FBG Ratings". More like a consulting thing. But I will check it out and see what comes of it. Thanks for the link.

Dan

# 698 KBLover @ 06/23/12 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The fact that they flat out told me that most of their ratings are "pressured" by the marketing entities at EA/Tiburon/NFL made me believe that the ratings issues will never be fixed. They really seemed to have their hands tied with pressure from above to do things a particular way. I used to think that these devs had total control over the development of the game but I was disappointed to find that they have very little power. Guess they are the drones...around merely to do the work.

The equivalent of an assembly line worker - just in software instead of cars or tables.

Makes sense though, since EA is the publisher and the publisher has the gold, and you know the golden rule - He who has the gold, rules.

Just makes me wish more development houses had the guts/means to go indy.

# 699 Playmakers @ 06/23/12 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	Thanks for your vote of confidence. I will apply and see if they get back to me. After I had that phone interview (more like a conference call) with about 5 members of the development team last summer regarding a M13 position, I think I have changed my opinion about those guys a bit. The fact that they flat out told me that most of their ratings are "pressured" by the marketing entities at EA/Tiburon/NFL made me believe that the ratings issues will never be fixed. They really seemed to have their hands tied with pressure from above to do things a particular way. I used to think that these devs had total control over the development of the game but I was disappointed to find that they have very little power. Guess they are the drones...around merely to do the work. I also got the impression that Donny Moore has no clue what he is doing. I spoke with him exclusively for about 5 minutes and picked his brain about where he gets his info. He never mentioned anything about data, just watching games and clips. That was severely disappointing. I got the impression that these devs want to do more with the game for the better, but they simply are not allowed to - their leashes are too short. What I would prefer someday, was that they enlisted FBG to do their ratings for them, should they agree with the methodology. Kind of like "Madden Ratings powered by FBG Ratings". More like a consulting thing. But I will check it out and see what comes of it. Thanks for the link. Dan

and this is why i believe both their football and basketball games suffer a lot with issues out of the box strictly tied to ratings on the field/court.

I've always felt at times EA would love a SIM style game but they refuse to get away from some ratings that lead to arcade type of gameplay on the field or court.

Take for example their NCAA Football series that has tons of LB's leaping as if they are Michael Jordan in his prime....or DT's who accelerate faster than half the RB's and WR's.

Before their basketball game folded (NBA LIVE) recently they would assign ratings which allowed guys to take off from anywhere on the floor and dunk the ball.

These types of things are the main reasons why I believe having the ability to edit players in all of EA's games should always be an option to us because they haven't shown in recent years they can get away from the super ratings of players that lead to those arcade type of outcomes on the field or court.

Not everyone wants to see SUPER LEAPING LB's or DT's with agility like Barry Sanders.

CCM or not i think removing the editing ability of players was just a terrible decision on EA part and no one can convince otherwise.

# 700 at23steelers @ 06/23/12 03:31 PM

They should've at least given the option to edit ratings in offline CCM leagues. I'll miss Playmakers sliders, because his were the best!! I like Dan's passion for having accurate ratings and I hope we will be able to use his ratings for our leagues in the future! Here's to hoping next year I will see a ratings option in CCM where it says: Donny's ratings or Dan's ratings.

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