Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

03:53 PM - April 7, 2010 by Steve_OS

EA Sports has just posted another Madden NFL 11 blog. This one focusing on locomotion.

Quote:


	"Obviously, players in pads can�t run the same speed as a world class sprinter coming out of blocks but their acceleration curves have the same shape. They get up to around 80% of their top speed relatively quickly, but the last 20% is stretched out further (it takes the Olympic guys around 60 meters to hit 100% of their top speed). Once I had the curves created, I tuned them around combine 40 times and 100 meter times of players who ran track in college. I then passed that info on to Ratings Czar Donny Moore so he could set speed and acceleration accurately for our rosters. In total, we have 24 different curves that we can tune to control everything from how a player's speed increases over time (based on acceleration and speed ratings), to how much he can turn based on his current speed (driven by the agility rating). That level of control really lets us differentiate players on the field. It is now possible for our ratings guys to make players that are quick over 10 to 20 yards, but get smoked at longer distances. A 90 speed player can now run the same 40 time as a 99 speed player, but lose over longer distances. I have a video here to highlight this. I created two players. The first is 99 speed, 90 acceleration (#99, on the top in the video). The second is 90 speed ,99 acceleration (#90 on the bottom in the video). The players race for 90 yards in the video. As you can see, the player with higher acceleration jumps out to an early lead, but gets passed at around 40 yards by the higher speed player. The animations aren't final (particularly the initial move that plays), and I still have some fine tuning to do on how we map the acceleration and speed ratings into our set of curves, but you can see how powerful acceleration is going to be in Madden NFL 11."

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Member Comments

# 181 splff3000 @ 04/10/10 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I'm not sure, I know that Ian said they weren't able to work on locomotion last year as it meant they'd have to redo all animations and they simply didn't have the cycles to do it and all of the game fixes + ProTak. So if they did anything, then odds are it was very, very small changes. I bet the community day guys can sound off on whether there were changes to locomotion in M10.

I'm pretty sure the CD guys said that is how the build that they played was. I know for a fact a few said the defenders would over persue sometime. Then when Ian was asked about it, he said that they had to tune it down a lot because defenders were sliding all over the place or something like that. I'm sure someone else who remembers better than I can( I drink a lot lol) would be able to be more specific about it.

# 182 MattIntellect @ 04/10/10 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	While we are on the subject of locomotion, doesn't anyone here wonder why EA Sports didn't license Euphoria? If you're going to make the best football game to date, why not use the best tech to date? My answer. Pride. Someone in the EA organization doesn't want to admit they can't build the same thing, and IMHO whoever made that decision needs to be removed from the decision making process as they are limiting the potential of Madden. Think of what Madden could be with Euphoria + Madden's Art team. The build versus buy debate is always a core choice in the business world, and for the most part you always buy. It almost never makes sense to reinvent the wheel.

The answer to this is pretty simple. Euphoria hasn't been proven to work in a football game yet. You could question their ability to innovate in this area though, if that's what you're getting at.

# 183 SageInfinite @ 04/10/10 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	While we are on the subject of locomotion, doesn't anyone here wonder why EA Sports didn't license Euphoria? If you're going to make the best football game to date, why not use the best tech to date? My answer. Pride. Someone in the EA organization doesn't want to admit they can't build the same thing, and IMHO whoever made that decision needs to be removed from the decision making process as they are limiting the potential of Madden. Think of what Madden could be with Euphoria + Madden's Art team. The build versus buy debate is always a core choice in the business world, and for the most part you always buy. It almost never makes sense to reinvent the wheel.

I'm pretty sure even if EA had Euphoria, they'd find a way not to use it to its full potential, lol. I just don't think EA has the desire to make the best game possible.

# 184 Valdarez @ 04/10/10 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalkMan99


	Someone please tell me in simple terms what Locomotion is because I don't have a clue at the moment. Thanks.

Crazy Movement - Loco Motion

# 185 PGaither84 @ 04/10/10 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	Crazy Movement - Loco Motion

[Ed Mcmahon's ghost] Ho ho! very funny sir, very funny!

---

I see what you did there, you crazy devil.

# 186 splff3000 @ 04/10/10 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	Crazy Movement - Loco Motion

Well, that's actually kinda what it's been the last few years.........crazy movement.

# 187 countryboy @ 04/10/10 04:09 PM

looks good. Can't wait to see it during gameplay.

# 188 johnnyg713 @ 04/10/10 04:46 PM

I think protack is definitely surprise a lot of people this year.. Im not saying its going to be better than Euphoria by any means (no one knows that yet) however they are focusing a lot to make tackles looking more realistic and momentum based.

# 189 johnnyg713 @ 04/10/10 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimixiii


	But there are many times were Pro-Tak takes the control away from the user. Once some Pro-Tak animations are engaged you can't do anything to stop them until the animation is done, if a player is breaking out of a 6-man gang tackle you can't join in on it to stop the ballcarrier, you just have to wait until the sequence is done & hope you time the tackle right. Control shouldn't be lost in any sim sports game at anytime to showcase an animation. With that said, I hope somewhere down the line Madden can incorporate Euphoria in a few years, there's no limit to gang tackles, it takes weight & momentum into account automatically and its all real time action. Even if they don't use Euphoria I just hope this Pro-Tak is not apart of the future of Madden for long. If not Euphoria, then some type of real-time technology will be the standard in sports gaming soon, and canned animation will be a thing of the past, which it should be.

These 2 points are what exactly the madden team has been working on from what I recall Ian saying last year. The team knows about what they need to work on.. If you check out that NCAA vid and the defender coming in to make the tackle as the animation is pretty much over. THAT you could never do in madden 10.

# 190 canes21 @ 04/10/10 05:17 PM

The thing is, canned animations will never beat real time animations. So, when Euphoria is finally tuned to what it needs to be, then there is no reason to stay canned. But, I see where EA is at in staying safe with their technology then using an unproven technology.

# 191 Valdarez @ 04/10/10 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canes21


	The thing is, canned animations will never beat real time animations. So, when Euphoria is finally tuned to what it needs to be, then there is no reason to stay canned. But, I see where EA is at in staying safe with their technology then using an unproven technology.

I don't know why everyone keeps saying the technology is unproven. It's proven. It's been used in The Force Unleashed, and another little game called Grand Theft Auto 4. The technology is available, and proven. EA simply chose not to use it.

# 192 countryboy @ 04/10/10 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I don't know why everyone keeps saying the technology is unproven. It's proven. It's been used in The Force Unleashed, and another little game called Grand Theft Auto 4. The technology is available, and proven. EA simply chose not to use it.

its unproven in sports games. Which is why everyone..including EA, will be keeping a close eye on Backbreaker and seeing how well it works, especially given the length of time that BB has been in production.

# 193 cdk10 @ 04/10/10 06:07 PM

Wonder if the new locomotion is going to help with the DBs that can backpedal all the way down the field with your WR that are running full speed down the field???

# 194 huskerwr38 @ 04/10/10 06:09 PM

I remember Ian saying stuff about how he saw Backbreaker videos and didn't think the game could ever work (or something to that effect) with Euphoria. Players wouldnt be able to break tackles, they would just fall over if someone just touched them. I also know that he has said that he hopes it does work. But my question is why do you think he said that he didn't think Euphoria wouldn't work with football.

# 195 coogrfan @ 04/10/10 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I don't know why everyone keeps saying the technology is unproven. It's proven. It's been used in The Force Unleashed, and another little game called Grand Theft Auto 4. The technology is available, and proven. EA simply chose not to use it.

Apples and oranges, anyone?

# 196 Valdarez @ 04/10/10 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countryboy


	its unproven in sports games. Which is why everyone..including EA, will be keeping a close eye on Backbreaker and seeing how well it works, especially given the length of time that BB has been in production.

A game is a game, the fact that you add sports in front of it changes nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by huskerwr38


	I remember Ian saying stuff about how he saw Backbreaker videos and didn't think the game could ever work (or something to that effect) with Euphoria. Players wouldnt be able to break tackles, they would just fall over if someone just touched them. I also know that he has said that he hopes it does work. But my question is why do you think he said that he didn't think Euphoria wouldn't work with football.

They could code the break tackles in there and it would have ProTak pretty much from the ground up, albeit without the silly 9 man group hugs. If anyone has the video or the post where Ian talks about Euphoria and says it won't work, I'd definitely like to read it. Because that's pure bull. It might be that they can't plug it in to the existing system, which could be true based on the way their game works with the motion capture / rendering / game logic and such. Euhporia might not be a plug and play library, but something you build from the ground up upon. I'm sure there's a LOT of pressure to not rebuild Madden from management who wants to keep costs down (remember, EA said they put less money into research for sports game than any other segment), but to keep building on what they have used for the last 15 years and just make it better.

# 197 K_GUN @ 04/10/10 07:01 PM

I still haven't seen it in a sports game

unproven to me

# 198 countryboy @ 04/10/10 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	A game is a game, the fact that you add sports in front of it changes nothing.

it changes everything. I don't remember a time playing GTA 4(didn't play The Force Unleashed) where a guy was trying to tackle another person who was trying to juke him out of shoes and then was trying to break the tackle while others were piling on. Euphoria is a great technology, but even though it is, it doesn't qualify it as being an engine that works for every genre of game. If it was, EA, 2k, SCEA, THQ, amongst others who produce sports video games would be all over it.

Thats why I stated that everyone(at least those who produce sports games) will be paying attention to how well received Backbreaker is amongst the gaming community in terms of the Euphoria engine.

# 199 Valdarez @ 04/10/10 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countryboy


	it changes everything. I don't remember a time playing GTA 4(didn't play The Force Unleashed) where a guy was trying to tackle another person who was trying to juke him out of shoes and then was trying to break the tackle while others were piling on. Euphoria is a great technology, but even though it is, it doesn't qualify it as being an engine that works for every genre of game. If it was, EA, 2k, SCEA, THQ, amongst others who produce sports video games would be all over it. Thats why I stated that everyone(at least those who produce sports games) will be paying attention to how well received Backbreaker is amongst the gaming community in terms of the Euphoria engine.

A game is a game is a game. They have animations, movement, and logic. Watch some of the developer diaries. There's no reason they can't use it from a 'will it work' standpoint.

It's a good point though as why they aren't trying to use it in basketball. Doesn't seem that necessary for boxing, ufc, or baseball (kind of on the cusp) where there is limited movement / interaction. Where there's movement / interaction, that seems to be the technology's sweet spot.

# 200 countryboy @ 04/10/10 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	A game is a game is a game. They have animations, movement, and logic. Watch some of the developer diaries. There's no reason they can't use it from a 'will it work' standpoint. It's a good point though as why they aren't trying to use it in basketball. Doesn't seem that necessary for boxing, ufc, or baseball (kind of on the cusp) where there is limited movement / interaction. Where there's movement / interaction, that seems to be the technology's sweet spot.

UFC has limited interaction/movement?

Anyways....

So you're telling me that the logic/interaction of a guy being shot by a gun, run over by a car, or punched, is the same as a guy trying to tackle a runner, that is juking and trying to break the tackle? And its the same as people piling on? The logic and interaction behind the two aforementioned scenerios are completely different.

Euphoria uses a rag doll type physic, or at least it did in GTA 4. Backbreaker is attempting to use it in a more "precise" manner and everyone is eager to see how it turns out. Lets face it, BB has spent a significant amount of time in development which would lead one to believe that if Euphoria can be used for football/sports games, Backbreaker will prove it without a shadow of a doubt.

There is a varying degree of complexity when developing the interaction between a car on person vs person on person.

That sounded dirty..lol

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