Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

03:53 PM - April 7, 2010 by Steve_OS

EA Sports has just posted another Madden NFL 11 blog. This one focusing on locomotion.

Quote:


	"Obviously, players in pads can�t run the same speed as a world class sprinter coming out of blocks but their acceleration curves have the same shape. They get up to around 80% of their top speed relatively quickly, but the last 20% is stretched out further (it takes the Olympic guys around 60 meters to hit 100% of their top speed). Once I had the curves created, I tuned them around combine 40 times and 100 meter times of players who ran track in college. I then passed that info on to Ratings Czar Donny Moore so he could set speed and acceleration accurately for our rosters. In total, we have 24 different curves that we can tune to control everything from how a player's speed increases over time (based on acceleration and speed ratings), to how much he can turn based on his current speed (driven by the agility rating). That level of control really lets us differentiate players on the field. It is now possible for our ratings guys to make players that are quick over 10 to 20 yards, but get smoked at longer distances. A 90 speed player can now run the same 40 time as a 99 speed player, but lose over longer distances. I have a video here to highlight this. I created two players. The first is 99 speed, 90 acceleration (#99, on the top in the video). The second is 90 speed ,99 acceleration (#90 on the bottom in the video). The players race for 90 yards in the video. As you can see, the player with higher acceleration jumps out to an early lead, but gets passed at around 40 yards by the higher speed player. The animations aren't final (particularly the initial move that plays), and I still have some fine tuning to do on how we map the acceleration and speed ratings into our set of curves, but you can see how powerful acceleration is going to be in Madden NFL 11."

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Member Comments

# 221 countryboy @ 04/11/10 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	Your math isn't quite right. Madden 06-11 is 5-6 years worth of development. BB has been in development for 3 years. Madden still has a 2-3 year head start on BB just on these consoles.

I believe he's referring to the amount of time NaturalMotion has had to work with the Euphoria engine(3 years) to get it to do what they want vs what the Madden development team would have, which would be 1 year.

# 222 TheWatcher @ 04/11/10 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canes21


	Pro-Tac is nothing but procedural animations. Its all still canned. Natural Motion's engine runs off real time physics and obey's all the laws set by those like Newton. EA's animations may appear to be running of a physics engine that calculates momentum based statistics, but it was all handcrafted. What Natural Motion brings to the table is all real time statistics being calculated every millisecond and beyond.

Of course that only activates for collisions in BB, as stated by the developers. So that means that the rest are standard animations, and to be honest a number of them don't look great at all. The QB footwork looks bad, the passing animations need a ton of work, and the catches seem to have very little variation at all. I'm willing to look past those things on a first try. They have a great system, but clearly they need more time to refine how they're adapting it to football.

Anyway, locomotion upgrades were badly needed in Madden. I complained about that a lot during the Madden 10 cycle. I remember Ian talking last year about implementing FIFA's locomotion at some point. I'm all in favor of that. What I'm interested in seeing is how new animation upgrades will affect post-play movement and interaction, because speaking purely about Madden's 09 and 10... it's a mess.

# 223 Hova57 @ 04/11/10 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	It actually is, and isn't a physics engine. At heart, it's not, but it has a pluggable physic's engine, that's why I posted that Euhporia information earlier. It can plug-n-play with physics engines, but they do provide their own implementation as well, so it's really the developers choice. Go back a few posts and you'll find the Euphoria overview with a diagram.

they use PhysX engine with Agiae , but you are correct Val. euphoria isn't completely the answer it is a good start to build on, but the rest of the animations are mo capped just like madden.

# 224 kjcheezhead @ 04/12/10 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countryboy


	I believe he's referring to the amount of time NaturalMotion has had to work with the Euphoria engine(3 years) to get it to do what they want vs what the Madden development team would have, which would be 1 year.

Either way that's not really true either. Madden is on 1 year cycles, but that doesn't mean they can't use 2 or more cycles to get something into the game.

As for Pro-tak, it has a fatal flaw that euphoria doesn't from what I've seen. It seems like it has points of contact where players need to go to start a tackle animation. 2 defenders cannot use the same point and if it doesn't match up the defender has to get slid into the tackle point. Euphoria just creates the tackle animation whenever the player meet.

# 225 countryboy @ 04/12/10 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	Either way that's not really true either. Madden is on 1 year cycles, but that doesn't mean they can't use 2 or more cycles to get something into the game.

I guess they could hire in more devs to work on the Euphoria technology while the regular dev team works on the next Madden installment.

# 226 Valdarez @ 04/12/10 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	Your math isn't quite right. Madden 06-11 is 5-6 years worth of development. BB has been in development for 3 years. Madden still has a 2-3 year head start on BB just on these consoles. Also, euphoria doesn't just mean tackling. It's any contact in the game. Blocking, jostling, mid-air collisions betweem dbs and wrs, and of course tackling (including gang tackles). Oh, and we know they have not 1, but 2 customizable franchises and a very in depth logo creator. BB may appear bare-bones, but it's not all tackles.

Not to mention that the BB team is literally 1/10th the size of the Madden team.

# 227 Valdarez @ 04/12/10 10:26 AM

I just downloaded the latest Fifa World Cup Afrika, and tried the movement out. I basically ran around in circles, switched directions, and the like. To be honest, I don't understand why everyone thinks this is a great locomotion system. In many ways it feels like Madden.

Here's my take-a-way:

Left Analog stick can be used to move slowly or quickly (touch sensitive)
RT is still used to Sprint, just like in Madden.
Missing animations on turns (looked really bad at times here)
Gliding on many of the movements, even some of the basic / walking / running animations at times
Very quick stops when running fast
Momentum feels inconsistent

Did I play the right version of FIFA?

# 228 cdk10 @ 04/12/10 11:05 AM

I did the same thing and I have to agree. Didn't really seem different than maddden, IMO.

# 229 SageInfinite @ 04/12/10 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I just downloaded the latest Fifa World Cup Afrika, and tried the movement out. I basically ran around in circles, switched directions, and the like. To be honest, I don't understand why everyone things this is a great locomotion system. In many ways it feels like Madden. Here's my take-a-way: Left Analog stick can be used to move slowly or quickly (touch sensitive) RT is still used to Sprint, just like in Madden. Missing animations on turns (looked really bad at times here) Gliding on many of the movements, even some of the basic / walking / running animations at times Very quick stops when running fast Momentum feels inconsistent Did I play the right version of FIFA?

Even though I did like the Fifa demo, I agree. I don't think it should be used for Madden. I think Madden needs its own locomotion built just for football. I think that's what they said they did, but I know I remember hearing fifa in the mix.

# 230 Valdarez @ 04/12/10 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageInfinite


	Even though I did like the Fifa demo, I agree. I don't think it should be used for Madden. I think Madden needs its own locomotion built just for football. I think that's what they said they did, but I know I remember hearing fifa in the mix.

I think what FIFA probably got right that everyone liked was the ball handling, but with regards to the movement itself, I saw little difference other than momentum seemed to be in effect, albeit awkwardly and inconsistently.

I hope they let the community day guys sound off on the new Locomotion system.

# 231 ch46647 @ 04/12/10 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I think what FIFA probably got right that everyone liked was the ball handling, but with regards to the movement itself, I saw little difference other than momentum seemed to be in effect, albeit awkwardly and inconsistently. I hope they let the community day guys sound off on the new Locomotion system.

Acceleration and De-celeration is done very well in FIFA as well. Once a player stops or cuts they realistically accelerate again instead of just starting back up at full speed.

# 232 Valdarez @ 04/12/10 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ch46647


	Acceleration and De-celeration is done very well in FIFA as well. Once a player stops or cuts they realistically accelerate again instead of just starting back up at full speed.

Agreed on acceleration, disagree on decelleration. I easily saw some quick cuts at full speeds that didn't look right at all.

# 233 Hova57 @ 04/12/10 11:50 AM

the full game fifa 10 was good . didn't download africa though. You have to remember Val they did add stuff to it for Madden also.

# 234 Valdarez @ 04/12/10 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hova57


	the full game fifa 10 was good . didn't download africa though. You have to remember Val they did add stuff to it for Madden also.

Yep, which is why I'm hoping the CD guys can sound off on what they saw.

# 235 Hova57 @ 04/12/10 01:19 PM

i would like to know how the locomotion will be handled with oline and dline interaction. especially with the footwork of tackles and the chop steps they are suppose to tackle and what happens when their balance is off due to a move by the defense tackle or end.

# 236 Hova57 @ 04/12/10 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimixiii


	They said Locomotion only effects the running (movement), not interactions in the NCAA video.

i saw that but my thinking is that they are letting out info in pieces and don't want to get too much out.

# 237 NoTiCe_O @ 04/12/10 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I just downloaded the latest Fifa World Cup Afrika, and tried the movement out. I basically ran around in circles, switched directions, and the like. To be honest, I don't understand why everyone thinks this is a great locomotion system. In many ways it feels like Madden. Here's my take-a-way: Left Analog stick can be used to move slowly or quickly (touch sensitive) RT is still used to Sprint, just like in Madden. Missing animations on turns (looked really bad at times here) Gliding on many of the movements, even some of the basic / walking / running animations at times Very quick stops when running fast Momentum feels inconsistent Did I play the right version of FIFA?

"We collaborated closely with the FIFA team and are combining the best parts of their locomotion system with a brand new tech we created specifically for Madden NFL 11" -Ryan Burnsides

# 238 drlw322 @ 04/12/10 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	Yep, which is why I'm hoping the CD guys can sound off on what they saw.

The community guys have been sounding off at NCAA strategies. These two threads have some interesting tibits. Its pretty long just read through some of the non sense. I know it's ncaa guys, but i imagine that alot of it would be the same.

http://www.ncaastrategies.com/utopia...ad.php?t=74177

http://www.ncaastrategies.com/utopia...ad.php?t=74219

# 239 Valdarez @ 04/12/10 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drlw322


	The community guys have been sounding off at NCAA strategies. These two threads have some interesting tibits. Its pretty long just read through some of the non sense. I know it's ncaa guys, but i imagine that alot of it would be the same. http://www.ncaastrategies.com/utopia...ad.php?t=74177 http://www.ncaastrategies.com/utopia...ad.php?t=74219

Thanks for the links... I think. I went through all but 4 pages of those threads and didn't see anything really new in there. I noticed cdj is the guy that went to CD, but I didn't see anything that hadn't already been discussed. Might just be better to list the tidbits for us since they weren't easy to find?

# 240 drlw322 @ 04/12/10 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	Thanks for the links... I think. I went through all but 4 pages of those threads and didn't see anything really new in there. I noticed cdj is the guy that went to CD, but I didn't see anything that hadn't already been discussed. Might just be better to list the tidbits for us since they weren't easy to find?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBlue

cdj, jb, and tommy I read on tradition football that scrambling quarterbacks are going to be effective. do you think that it is going to turn into a cheese fest or is it going to be able to shut down.

They were effective in the build we played, but I think part of that was due to the defense still being tweaked. Actually, in the game I played versus Jeff (from Tradition Football) we each scrambled and pointed out several times to devs where the D could/should be quicker to react to the scrambling QB. It was/is still a work in progress, so I'm not too concerned about it right now. They knew the D was still being worked on in regards to locomotion (getting started in motion to make a play), so I don't think they will be too bad. However, my hunch is that very mobile QBs might be a pain if people don't call correct defenses or have a talented D.

As for some thoughts on it...

Damon Peterson and I went into Practice Mode during the Community Event and compared NCAA 10 to 11. To see how basic momentum worked, we had a RB/WR run full-speed for 40+ yards and then let go of the controls. In NCAA 10, the player stopped almost on a dime - in two yards or so. In NCAA 11, they would take 5-6 steps before stopping, so there is definite momentum in the game.

I really noticed it on the Hit Stick. Whiff on the Hit Stick and you are screwed. Your player is getting out of position and probably is done for the play.

Quote:

To fix this, the designers at EA Sports focused on things like momentum and acceleration, variation in strides, and leaning. "Now you can lean forward into turns and lean forward when accelerating," adds Burnsides.

In terms of control, that means learning the timing of things like the lean. Lean forward to build up momentum for the truck, but lean forward too long and instead of trucking over a defender, you will end up falling on your facemask.

This is a very cool addition. You can now twist and turn as you go through holes, when contact is coming, and also 'steer' your truck move. As you hold the RS up, you can move it left or right for your player to drop his shoulder in that direction. IE: If a player is coming to lay the wood on you from the left, you can hold RS up and to the right to shield the ball away. I made the mistake one time of shifting the wrong way and the ball popped up. It looks very realistic and feels pretty natural.

If you hold down the truck stick too long, you will stumble and fall...however, you can let go in time to recover from the stumble. Though, if a defender is nearby, he is probably going to make the tackle.

IMO, Locomotion is one of the biggest additions coming to the game. People wanted realistic player movement and they got it. It's probably the biggest gameplay addition/change, but there are more to come on this front.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deuce

CDJ, can you talk more about the difference between power/speed RB's?

The rosters were still being worked on to help reflect the strength of player attributes and I didn't use power/speed RBs enough to make definitive statements. One of the other guys there may have though.

EDIT - I did see Shopmaster use the Bama HB and just roll through people to get to the tourney championship. By watching, I could tell Power HBs are tough to bring down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBlue

With the new locomotion have you experienced the DE 3-4 yards outside of the tackle then running around the tackle to sack the quarterback in 1-2 seconds like in previous versions.

I don't think that will be a big issue in 11, as locomotion will make it tough for bigger less agile players to run around and cut quickly.

JBHUSKER
CDJ pretty much nailed the important parts of the locomotion here. Like I said earlier...this addition is really sweet. We really didn't get the full feel of this in the run game until one of the programmers of this feature showed us basically everything the RB can do with the use of the right stick. From that point forward, I basically was trying every possible move with my RB.

As I had mentioned in the podcast...this was basically something that we had no idea that was in the game, as they were letting us discover things as we were playing. We kinda found out a couple of the things on our end, for me specifically I noticed the stumble. But when Burnsides showed us everything else...we were all just huddling around in amazement with everything he was doing with the RB.

It makes the run game feel brand new, you feel like you have total control. And as I've said before...it's a blast to play around with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coogrfan

A guy from traditionfootball.com who attended the event posted the following a little while ago over at OS:

I would be interested to hear how our guys experiences compare to Ryno's.

It's still in alpha; therefore, the tuning is still being worked on....its FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR away from being final. Nothing to worry about yet. Again, remember we are not even close to having all of the information yet....

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