Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

it changes everything. I don't remember a time playing GTA 4(didn't play The Force Unleashed) where a guy was trying to tackle another person who was trying to juke him out of shoes and then was trying to break the tackle while others were piling on. Euphoria is a great technology, but even though it is, it doesn't qualify it as being an engine that works for every genre of game. If it was, EA, 2k, SCEA, THQ, amongst others who produce sports video games would be all over it. Thats why I stated that everyone(at least those who produce sports games) will be paying attention to how well received Backbreaker is amongst the gaming community in terms of the Euphoria engine.

A game is a game is a game. They have animations, movement, and logic. Watch some of the developer diaries. There's no reason they can't use it from a 'will it work' standpoint.

It's a good point though as why they aren't trying to use it in basketball. Doesn't seem that necessary for boxing, ufc, or baseball (kind of on the cusp) where there is limited movement / interaction. Where there's movement / interaction, that seems to be the technology's sweet spot.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

A game is a game is a game. They have animations, movement, and logic. Watch some of the developer diaries. There's no reason they can't use it from a 'will it work' standpoint. It's a good point though as why they aren't trying to use it in basketball. Doesn't seem that necessary for boxing, ufc, or baseball (kind of on the cusp) where there is limited movement / interaction. Where there's movement / interaction, that seems to be the technology's sweet spot.

UFC has limited interaction/movement?

Anyways....

So you're telling me that the logic/interaction of a guy being shot by a gun, run over by a car, or punched, is the same as a guy trying to tackle a runner, that is juking and trying to break the tackle? And its the same as people piling on? The logic and interaction behind the two aforementioned scenerios are completely different.

Euphoria uses a rag doll type physic, or at least it did in GTA 4. Backbreaker is attempting to use it in a more "precise" manner and everyone is eager to see how it turns out. Lets face it, BB has spent a significant amount of time in development which would lead one to believe that if Euphoria can be used for football/sports games, Backbreaker will prove it without a shadow of a doubt.

There is a varying degree of complexity when developing the interaction between a car on person vs person on person.

That sounded dirty..lol

[coogrfan]

You don't think that maybe, just maybe, it might be a good idea to actually play BB before declaring euphoria the greatest thing since sliced bread?

Val, you're usually a fairly intelligent and perceptive poster, but imho you're waaaaaaay off base here.

[Jimixiii]

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

Apples and oranges, anyone?

Not really, it's a physics based system...and what is it that madden needs? Physics.

How else do you think that would effect a football game when momentum is one of the key factors in the sport? I'm pretty sure we're going to start seeing Euphoria based physics in all games in just a few years, it's the only way to go. You act like Euphoria would ruin your precious animations like magically gliding 3 yards with one foot on the ground, footballs phasing through defenders arms, magnetic blocks & tackles or premature predetermined tackles that stop your running dead in his tracks before he was even touched when actually Euphoria couldn't do more than help stop those things from happening.

Euphoria has proven it makes interactions more realistic, I don't know what you've conjured up that it could suddenly create problems in a football game when it comes to physics. I don't know what logic your using but if you think Canned Animation>Real Time Animation then I guess you're just stuck in the past, cuz that's pretty much what you're saying.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

You don't think that maybe, just maybe, it might be a good idea to actually play BB before declaring euphoria the greatest thing since sliced bread?

I've already seen it in 2 games (EDIT: Just read it's being used in Red Dead Redemption!), and I liked what I saw in those. That tells me it's viable. So no, I don't need to see BB to tell me it could better than what's already in Madden (emphasis on 'could be'). Plus, it's not like we are completely in the dark with BB. We have seen BB videos with regards to movement and tackles, and I definitely like the infinite number of tackles that it provides. Some might not like the big hits, but that's a configuration choice the BB team chose to take and not one that Madden would necessarily have to emulate.

Euphoria requires a lot of custom configuration/coding for custom actions, and I personally think they didn't want to invest the time and resources into Euphoria. Why would they? When they already have a working engine? However, I still say that to say it couldn't work is bull. That's why I want to see the post/blog/vid where Ian said it. Plus, I want to make sure I understand his comments in context.

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

Val, you're usually a fairly intelligent and perceptive poster, but imho you're waaaaaaay off base here.

You can fool some of the people some of the time...

[canes21]

I don't think anyone said Canned Animations>Procedural Animations. Its the fact no one has made a sports game with this engine until now. Theres a lot more to this then EA wants to stay with Pro-Tac because they created it.

Just because a system worked in GTA IV doesn't mean it will work in football games. In GTA IV, you'd shot a guy in the leg and he'd get up while holding his stomach. Do we want that ina football game? Do we want our players taking hits in the legs and breaking them, but they limp off the field holding their stomach? No... Those are minor things that still need work. I'm willing to bet it will take another Backbreaker title at the least to get everything down thats basic, then if a 3rd and 4th game come out, we'll start seeing the more complex things getting tuned. From what we've heard, WR's don't even try to get both feet down in the game because it was so hard to program, something the Madden team has partially done in the past with its engine.

[Valdarez]

Here's some information on Euphoria, so we're all on the same page.

euphoria
euphoria brings Dynamic Motion Synthesis (DMS) onto Playstation® 3, Xbox 360 and PC.

With euphoria, animations are not canned but are generated on-the-fly by the hardware's processors as the game is played. Every tackle is your tackle, every haymaker is your haymaker.

Previously, animation data had to be manually created (through key-framing) or recorded (through motion capture). This is often expensive and laborious, and results in static, non-interactive data.

euphoria is instead based on a full simulation of a 3D character, including body, muscles and motor nervous system. This creates fully interactive animations that act and react differently every time.

---

euphoria:core
euphoria:core is NaturalMotion's lightweight DMS engine. euphoria:core runs parallel to the game's animation engine and is called by the game's AI whenever synthesised motion is required instead of canned animation. This enables a non-disruptive integration and scalable use.

euphoria:core consists of a small kernel, AI controller modules (for adaptive behaviours) and a rigid dynamics module (for physics). euphoria is physics-engine independent and works with all commercially available engines (as well as proprietary ones).

[canes21]

They still have to craft the running animations, throwing animations, etc. Then they have to program how each rating interacts with the game and other players. It would take a long period of time and I doubt we'll see EA use it this generation at all.