05:21 AM - July 23, 2009 by SeaNNyT
The Madden NFL 10 demo is now available, please post your impressions here.
Madden 2010 News Post
05:21 AM - July 23, 2009 by SeaNNyTMadden NFL 10 Videos
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Totally agree. I know I was pumped for this game to begin with but I still had it in the back of my mind "Been there before"...
Not this year.
Props Ian,
Job well done!
# 843
Ian_Cummings @ 07/23/09 09:51 PM
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# 845
TheSolutionKMH @ 07/23/09 09:52 PM
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Here is to sqib kicks!
Here is to watching Tuck drink his gatorade while the offense is on the field!
Here is to late ProTak! (Seriously, its pretty awesome when you take the time to see what just happened on the replay)
Here is to all the work that went into these graphics! This is the best looking sports game i've seen on the 360.
Here is to pausing the snow game, and watching the pause menu "camera" get hit by the snow!
And here is to beers at a football game under $3!!!!!
Here is to watching Tuck drink his gatorade while the offense is on the field!
Here is to late ProTak! (Seriously, its pretty awesome when you take the time to see what just happened on the replay)
Here is to all the work that went into these graphics! This is the best looking sports game i've seen on the 360.
Here is to pausing the snow game, and watching the pause menu "camera" get hit by the snow!
And here is to beers at a football game under $3!!!!!
# 847
countryboy @ 07/23/09 09:53 PM
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There is nothing really wrong with the WR catching the ball short like that. In real life a WR can, and should go to meet the ball and catch it at it's highest point to keep the defender from getting to the ball. They did not jump super high to get it either.
The problem isn't the WR jumping up, it is the AI of the defender, the lack of defenders being able to track the ball, and the fact that the ball doesn't have varying degrees of arc.
The AI should be able to make a play on the ball the same way that the WR does. The WR knows where he is going first so he should arrive at his spot sooner than the defender, but the defender should have more options on defending against that catch after getting there even if he is a little late. He should be able to go up with the WR and fight for the catch and he should also be able to have animations to try and strip the ball as the WR is coming down, before he can secure the catch. The most important thing though is that the DB should be reacting to the PASS, even if it is later than the WR. In those vidz, the didn't really even really react to anything until after the fact, but even when they did react, it was to where the ball would be caught in STRIDE. In real life, DBs don't play the role of the WR, they play the WR. In other words, they don't go to where the ball would end up if they were the WR and caught a perfect pass, the try and stay between the WR and the ball under any circumstances. They aren't go to go for an INT at the expense of giving the receiver a shot at catching the ball. In Madden, DBs clearly go to the circle on the field instead of trying to stay between the WR and the ball. That is the biggest flaw with Madden's defensive AI.
Madden's other problem is that passes are either really high on lobs or only about 7ft off the ground on bullets. QBs are able to put varying degrees of arc on a pass and still have them go at high velocity in the real world.
There isn't anything wrong with a WR being able to cut off his route and come back to the ball and jump up and get it. Many QBs will intentionally throw passes short on deep routes to their outside shoulder and give them a chance at the catch when they are being covered over the top. Ian and crew needs to fix how the AI defends all passes and stop sending them towards the circle to catch it like they are the receiver unless if the WR slipped down or something. Then they need to give the DBs more skills to be able to defend the pass via strip in case they get their too late. WRs should also need to have very high catch ratings in order to pull down a catch like that under duress. Finally, Ian, change the way that the ball travels and allow for more arc with velocity so that WRs can't break patterns off 10yds from the target circle and still be able to pull the pass down.
Those are the real issues. Sorry for the long post.
The problem isn't the WR jumping up, it is the AI of the defender, the lack of defenders being able to track the ball, and the fact that the ball doesn't have varying degrees of arc.
The AI should be able to make a play on the ball the same way that the WR does. The WR knows where he is going first so he should arrive at his spot sooner than the defender, but the defender should have more options on defending against that catch after getting there even if he is a little late. He should be able to go up with the WR and fight for the catch and he should also be able to have animations to try and strip the ball as the WR is coming down, before he can secure the catch. The most important thing though is that the DB should be reacting to the PASS, even if it is later than the WR. In those vidz, the didn't really even really react to anything until after the fact, but even when they did react, it was to where the ball would be caught in STRIDE. In real life, DBs don't play the role of the WR, they play the WR. In other words, they don't go to where the ball would end up if they were the WR and caught a perfect pass, the try and stay between the WR and the ball under any circumstances. They aren't go to go for an INT at the expense of giving the receiver a shot at catching the ball. In Madden, DBs clearly go to the circle on the field instead of trying to stay between the WR and the ball. That is the biggest flaw with Madden's defensive AI.
Madden's other problem is that passes are either really high on lobs or only about 7ft off the ground on bullets. QBs are able to put varying degrees of arc on a pass and still have them go at high velocity in the real world.
There isn't anything wrong with a WR being able to cut off his route and come back to the ball and jump up and get it. Many QBs will intentionally throw passes short on deep routes to their outside shoulder and give them a chance at the catch when they are being covered over the top. Ian and crew needs to fix how the AI defends all passes and stop sending them towards the circle to catch it like they are the receiver unless if the WR slipped down or something. Then they need to give the DBs more skills to be able to defend the pass via strip in case they get their too late. WRs should also need to have very high catch ratings in order to pull down a catch like that under duress. Finally, Ian, change the way that the ball travels and allow for more arc with velocity so that WRs can't break patterns off 10yds from the target circle and still be able to pull the pass down.
Those are the real issues. Sorry for the long post.
Wow, this demo is fun, even though its like 4 minutes 
Can't wait for this game to come out!!!
And it great to play as the G-Men!!!
Can't wait for this game to come out!!!
And it great to play as the G-Men!!!
# 850
bowlerguy92 @ 07/23/09 09:54 PM
The demo was a blast I won 28-7 as the Steelers, things looked pretty good, played incredible well and I actually enjoyed the game I played! Lots of cool things happening on and off the field, the presentation is really nice as well. I'm looking very forward! Great work so far...this game dare I say it feels a LOT like NFL 2K5 which I think will be recieved pretty incredibly.
# 851
Senor Nascar @ 07/23/09 09:55 PM
Ian,
Is there a difference in build between the Giants/Cowboys and Steelers/Cards demos???
Is there a difference in build between the Giants/Cowboys and Steelers/Cards demos???
# 852
Jet Sufferer @ 07/23/09 09:56 PM
A little bit of a reality check here from the breathless fanboys.
I like the game speed, better than last year when the QB would throw a hard pass the camera couldn't catch up and you couldn't make a play on D, you just had to button mash.
I like that you can do line moves, hated 09, zero fun in the trenches, this is much improved.
Now for the potential game killers for me.
Play screen says my lineman's job is to rush, I'm pushing down on the stick to rush and he decides to do his own thing (step backwards, sideways) I'm looking to engage the defender and make a move, he's doing the watuzi. Happened too often.
OFFENSIVE, and I do mean offensive line play.
It seems to be a roll of the virtual dice as to which one or 2 D-Lineman will have a free run at the running back on a running play. Blockers ignore the man in front of them, sometimes they just double or triple team the center. These guys are really dumb, the CPU tries to compensate (I think) by having the RB usually break the first tackle. The lineman just do really stupid things on almost every play. Numerous times a DT is left untouched, these guys have an assignment on the play screen but when the ball is snapped the O-Lineman are often running around like a chicken with his head cut off. Willie Parker bowls over guys like Brandon Jacobs, Jacobs must run like Earl Campbell against a high school squad, lol.
Played great D on a wide receiver only to have the ball go THROUGH my hands, right through the palm with no effect on the ball, happened more than once, went to the replay, zoomed in, all angles, right through my palm and wrist, it's like the CPU decided that the receiver was making the catch on that play and that's that. Just like some running plays where the CPU decides it's time for a 2 yard loss and some lineman will just refuse to block the guy in front of him even though the play is going right there.
Pressed for a lob by Big Ben to my RB open in the flat, wow, he threw the thing straight up in the air, tapping for a lob should should recognize what the QB is doing, throwing an out to his back, not sending up a hand grenade. I guess this can be fixed by pressing a little longer than a tap, so not horrible.
Guys a couple of times after catching passes seemed to do a little juke on their own, even though they were headed upfield already.
Secondary sometimes as confused as O-Lineman, no concept of where they are and where the receivers are.
In short a LOT of the old Madden problems are still prevalent, is it better than 09, yes, but that's not saying anything, 09 was bad, not decent, not a "step in the right direction" as was the 09 meme of so many here. The new meme is "no game is perfect", I've seen this 100 times here and not once has the poster said, "I expect this to be perfect" "NFL 2k5 was perfect". No one is looking for perfection, just a really good football game.
So far, it's better, but don't believe the hype of so many here, it's light years away from being a 2K killer. Presentation is much improved, but I could care less. Some people are graphic whores, cleat/towel/visor whores, I'm a gameplay whore. Give me a great game and I wouldn't care if the sidelines were bare, no fans in the stands, etc.
Animation to me is still choppy and feels a bit too scripted. The game is still lacking a certain fluidity and the organic feel of a great sports game. Maybe it will grow on me, but right now (I know it's a demo, don't remind me, lol) it's still too "Maddeny" for me.
Good news if you actually liked any next-gen Maddens you'll love this one. I may consider buying it used if there is marked improvement from here and a very good patch or 2. It's not all that right now. No matter, I'm sure it will be a HUGE seller and the young market of Madden Ballers who worship every release will be thrilled, I'm happy for them. I'm just a little more discriminating about what sports games I'll play, I'll try them all and play the ones I like best, even if they're on old consoles.
I like the game speed, better than last year when the QB would throw a hard pass the camera couldn't catch up and you couldn't make a play on D, you just had to button mash.
I like that you can do line moves, hated 09, zero fun in the trenches, this is much improved.
Now for the potential game killers for me.
Play screen says my lineman's job is to rush, I'm pushing down on the stick to rush and he decides to do his own thing (step backwards, sideways) I'm looking to engage the defender and make a move, he's doing the watuzi. Happened too often.
OFFENSIVE, and I do mean offensive line play.
It seems to be a roll of the virtual dice as to which one or 2 D-Lineman will have a free run at the running back on a running play. Blockers ignore the man in front of them, sometimes they just double or triple team the center. These guys are really dumb, the CPU tries to compensate (I think) by having the RB usually break the first tackle. The lineman just do really stupid things on almost every play. Numerous times a DT is left untouched, these guys have an assignment on the play screen but when the ball is snapped the O-Lineman are often running around like a chicken with his head cut off. Willie Parker bowls over guys like Brandon Jacobs, Jacobs must run like Earl Campbell against a high school squad, lol.
Played great D on a wide receiver only to have the ball go THROUGH my hands, right through the palm with no effect on the ball, happened more than once, went to the replay, zoomed in, all angles, right through my palm and wrist, it's like the CPU decided that the receiver was making the catch on that play and that's that. Just like some running plays where the CPU decides it's time for a 2 yard loss and some lineman will just refuse to block the guy in front of him even though the play is going right there.
Pressed for a lob by Big Ben to my RB open in the flat, wow, he threw the thing straight up in the air, tapping for a lob should should recognize what the QB is doing, throwing an out to his back, not sending up a hand grenade. I guess this can be fixed by pressing a little longer than a tap, so not horrible.
Guys a couple of times after catching passes seemed to do a little juke on their own, even though they were headed upfield already.
Secondary sometimes as confused as O-Lineman, no concept of where they are and where the receivers are.
In short a LOT of the old Madden problems are still prevalent, is it better than 09, yes, but that's not saying anything, 09 was bad, not decent, not a "step in the right direction" as was the 09 meme of so many here. The new meme is "no game is perfect", I've seen this 100 times here and not once has the poster said, "I expect this to be perfect" "NFL 2k5 was perfect". No one is looking for perfection, just a really good football game.
So far, it's better, but don't believe the hype of so many here, it's light years away from being a 2K killer. Presentation is much improved, but I could care less. Some people are graphic whores, cleat/towel/visor whores, I'm a gameplay whore. Give me a great game and I wouldn't care if the sidelines were bare, no fans in the stands, etc.
Animation to me is still choppy and feels a bit too scripted. The game is still lacking a certain fluidity and the organic feel of a great sports game. Maybe it will grow on me, but right now (I know it's a demo, don't remind me, lol) it's still too "Maddeny" for me.
Good news if you actually liked any next-gen Maddens you'll love this one. I may consider buying it used if there is marked improvement from here and a very good patch or 2. It's not all that right now. No matter, I'm sure it will be a HUGE seller and the young market of Madden Ballers who worship every release will be thrilled, I'm happy for them. I'm just a little more discriminating about what sports games I'll play, I'll try them all and play the ones I like best, even if they're on old consoles.
# 854
nosaints26 @ 07/23/09 09:57 PM
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What was the point of pre-ordering for the code to get the demo, when the demo is available on the dashboard?
# 857
Senor Nascar @ 07/23/09 10:01 PM
I could not AGREE with you more JET SUFFERER!! GAMEPLAY, GAMEPLAY, GAMEPLAY...that is what makes a football game fun for me. Is the gameplay better...YES. Is it good enough in this demo to warrant a purchase...NO. Once every player actually blocks who they are supposed to this game will get purchased right away. I hope the final build has some major changes in regards to blocking.
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# 859
countryboy @ 07/23/09 10:02 PM
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