Madden 2010 News Post

Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

08:01 PM - May 6, 2009 by backbreaker

Look at Maximum tackle and the suddenness in which the tackler arrives and the wealth of options in this system. The tackler comes to tackle not engage in a line dance. I know I don't know all the features to Pro Tak, when it comes to the actual tackle, but when you see this video, of ESPN NFL 2K5 tackle options you will understand why I critisize the grabbing for grabbing sake.

In 2k5 you could initiate the tackle with a wrap or a hit. I also like which wasn't mentioned in the video, you can choose whether or not you should wrap high or low by flicking the right stick up for high wrap tackle and flicking down for low wrap tackle and the next defender(s) attacks the ball carrier.

I'm not hating, I actually like the idea, I just want it to be aggressive and violent as it should be its a collision sport not contact and racing up to a ball carrier just to hold onto him just for looks, just doesn't look good.

http://xboxmovies.teamxbox.com/xbox/...aximum-Tackle/

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Member Comments

# 61 TheWatcher @ 05/08/09 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy9386


	No they weren't I think your mistaking violent for loud

Not a chance... my speakers aren't even turned on, lol.

I thought they were violent when I saw them last year in that video, and I still think so now. All of the flying around, leaping... the collisions themselves... it's a crash derby.

# 62 speedy9386 @ 05/08/09 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	Not a chance... my speakers aren't even turned on, lol. I thought they were violent when I saw them last year in that video, and I still think so now. All of the flying around, leaping... the collisions themselves... it's a crash derby.

Remember they are set to aggressive in the real games they don't tackle like that

# 63 TheWatcher @ 05/08/09 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	lol... well then, it's obviously debatable.

I'm talking consensus though. Reading most of the comments that pop up, I think it's safe to say that the general impression is that the hits in the game are pretty extreme and certainly more so than what you'd see take place consistently during the course of a real life game.

I think Madden has too many big hits. I think BB based on what we've seen, has more than that. Each hit I've seen in BB makes me visualize the hit cam shake happening.

# 64 Valdarez @ 05/08/09 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy9386


	Hey Valdarez you beat me to the punch. lol

If you can't beat me to a post, then you're going to have to change your nick to somewhatfasty9836 now.

# 65 TheWatcher @ 05/08/09 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy9386


	Remember they are set to aggressive in the real games they don't tackle like that

I'll have to see some actual video proof of that from them.

They had another recent video with yet more explosive tackles... I think it was on that PSN show. I mean really, if you have some regular tackles, after all this time wouldn't you have shown one that didn't look so aggressive? A wrap up? A pull down? Something?

# 66 Valdarez @ 05/08/09 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	I'm talking consensus though. Reading most of the comments that pop up, I think it's safe to say that the general impression is that the hits in the game are pretty extreme and certainly more so than what you'd see take place consistently during the course of a real life game. I think Madden has too many big hits. I think BB based on what we've seen, has more than that. Each hit I've seen in BB makes me visualize the hit cam shake happening.

I don't agree about the consensus assessment, the responses thus far in this thread alone show case disparity on the that view.

There's a saying that perception is reality, and I think a lot of each of our view is perception based. Folks who have played Madden for years are going to perceive it differently than folks who have played 2K games, especially APF2K8 where momentum is very real.

I'll give you that there are some big hits in that video, because there are, especially at the start, but they aren't all spectacular.

# 67 Valdarez @ 05/08/09 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	I also think that if it were their goal to make sim football, they wouldn't be showing these explosive tackles in every video since that's obviously not a representation of sim football in the least bit. I just think people are setting themselves up for disappointment.

They haven't really given us enough information to make a call on whether it's simulation or not. They have said it will be a different experience, that's pretty much all we know. My only expectation thus far is for unique tackles, which to the best of my knowledge, is all they have promised.

# 68 polamalu82 @ 05/08/09 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	I'm talking consensus though. Reading most of the comments that pop up, I think it's safe to say that the general impression is that the hits in the game are pretty extreme and certainly more so than what you'd see take place consistently during the course of a real life game. I think Madden has too many big hits. I think BB based on what we've seen, has more than that. Each hit I've seen in BB makes me visualize the hit cam shake happening.

Say you never seen the game Madden before. Now all you had to base your judgment on Madden is what they've been hyping(pro-tak). Everyone would assume the majority of the tackles in this "new" game Madden are gang tackles. Do you see what I'm getting at? Nobody wants to see "boring" tackles. You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle.

# 69 TheWatcher @ 05/08/09 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I don't agree about the consensus assessment, the responses thus far in this thread alone show case disparity on the that view.

I wasn't basing it on this thread... I'm basing it on the impression I've gotten from reading around the net concerning BB, but perhaps we filter these comments based on our personal view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I'll give you that there are some big hits in that video, because there are, especially at the start, but they aren't all spectacular.

I'm not too sure what is meant by "spectacular"... I just think the hits all look overly aggressive. Like, the offensive player is a fast Deer being hit by angry Lions. He looks powerless. Like he has no weight, lol. I could've sworn we complained about this with Madden in some situations, lol.

# 70 speedy9386 @ 05/08/09 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	I wasn't basing it on this thread... I'm basing it on the impression I've gotten from reading around the net concerning BB, but perhaps we filter these comments based on our personal view. I'm not too sure what is meant by "spectacular"... I just think the hits all look overly aggressive. Like, the offensive player is a fast Deer being hit by angry Lions. He looks powerless. Like he has no weight, lol. I could've sworn we complained about this with Madden in some situations, lol.

Once again I'll say IN THIS VIDEO THE DEFENSE IS SET TO AGGRESIVE, IN REAL GAMES THEY DON'T TACKLE LIKE THAT.

# 71 Valdarez @ 05/08/09 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	I wasn't basing it on this thread... I'm basing it on the impression I've gotten from reading around the net concerning BB, but perhaps we filter these comments based on our personal view.

I have followed the game myself, watched the vids (though it's been awhile), and read the BB forums here and there. I don't agree with this view as it relates to the tackles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	I'm not too sure what is meant by "spectacular"... I just think the hits all look overly aggressive. Like, the offensive player is a fast Deer being hit by angry Lions. He looks powerless. Like he has no weight, lol. I could've sworn we complained about this with Madden in some situations, lol.

No weight? You really lost me there. We must be watching different videos. The only time you see major movement is when the player is airborne, and then you see movement as expected. As for the rest, you see actual momentum in play as the player falls down or continues their run.

The movement isn't all that much different from APF2K8, in fact, I think I saw several player positionings that looked very reminscent of APF2K8. There's an article somewhere that someone wrote up comapring AFP2K8 and backbreaker. I'll have to find it. The comparison will probably shock you.

When I think of no weight / momentum, then the first football game that comes to mind (next gen) is Madden.

# 72 roadman @ 05/09/09 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy9386


	Once again I'll say IN THIS VIDEO THE DEFENSE IS SET TO AGGRESIVE, IN REAL GAMES THEY DON'T TACKLE LIKE THAT.

Then they need to show us tackles that aren't on aggressive.

Why are they showing aggressive tackles off first?

Show me, don't tell me.

# 73 TheWatcher @ 05/09/09 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polamalu82


	Say you never seen the game Madden before. Now all you had to base your judgment on Madden is what they've been hyping(pro-tak). Everyone would assume the majority of the tackles in this "new" game Madden are gang tackles. Do you see what I'm getting at? Nobody wants to see "boring" tackles. You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle.

But with Pro-Tak though, we've seen other things besides gangs as the tech extends to other things. Also, there are some comments I've read where I'm convinced some people really do think the majority of the tackles in Madden 10 will be gangs, lol, but that makes less sense than what could be assumed with BB, because with Madden we've seen video of other tackles besides gangs. All we've seen are aggressive tackles in BB.

As for selling the sizzle... I think it depends on what's to be considered sizzle. When 2K was pushing maximum tackle they showed lots of wrap-ups. It looked great and they knew who they were targeting with it. Sim players of that franchise wanted that badly. If BB is wishing to do the same, then they've chosen a strange way of doing it, lol.

# 74 TheWatcher @ 05/09/09 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy9386


	Once again I'll say IN THIS VIDEO THE DEFENSE IS SET TO AGGRESIVE, IN REAL GAMES THEY DON'T TACKLE LIKE THAT.

And I'll say once again... UNTIL THEY SHOW ME VIDEO THAT'S NOT AGGRESSIVE, THE JURY WILL REMAIN OUT.

Simple as that. Right now I guess we're to assume that every video they've shown, it's been set to aggressive? Maybe, maybe not, no one knows that but them. But let's not pretend that the video here is the only one, because they're all aggressive.

# 75 TheWatcher @ 05/09/09 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandemonium00


	They haven't even begun their media blitz on what this game [Backbreaker] offers. You have to be kidding me if you say these player models are unrealistic and the tackles are "arcadish."

I didn't say anything about the player models, but since you mentioned it... yep, they are unrealistic. Have you ever seen football equipment like what they're wearing?

Supposedly the game theme is futuristic. I don't buy that. I think they just took the models they had from their demonstrations and decided to just leave them as-is, and when people questioned it they had to come up with an explanation. It might actually wind up being the theme, but I think it's more patchwork than initial intent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandemonium00


	Show me some Madden animations or plays that are more true-to-life; you have yet to do this.

I've never said Madden's animations are the beacon of realism, but I could certainly show you tons of wrap tackles even in "sizzle" videos. Wraps are truER-to-life, crash derby is not.

# 76 polamalu82 @ 05/09/09 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	But with Pro-Tak though, we've seen other things besides gangs as the tech extends to other things. Also, there are some comments I've read where I'm convinced some people really do think the majority of the tackles in Madden 10 will be gangs, lol, but that makes less sense than what could be assumed with BB, because with Madden we've seen video of other tackles besides gangs. All we've seen are aggressive tackles in BB. As for selling the sizzle... I think it depends on what's to be considered sizzle. When 2K was pushing maximum tackle they showed lots of wrap-ups. It looked great and they knew who they were targeting with it. Sim players of that franchise wanted that badly. If BB is wishing to do the same, then they've chosen a strange way of doing it, lol.

The way I look at it all BB advertising is a moot point until E3. At E3 we should finally be able to paint a good picture as to what this game offers. Until then, calling it over the top is just speculation, and I know that's 99% of what we do around here.lol

# 77 TheWatcher @ 05/09/09 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I have followed the game myself, watched the vids (though it's been awhile), and read the BB forums here and there. I don't agree with this view as it relates to the tackles.

You're not going to find much opposition on the BB forums because most of those people have already proclaimed BB as the savior of football video games.

I read things from all over the place, blogs, forums, etc. I hear a lot people say the tackles look cool, but I hear a lot of "wow those hits are vicious" and there's an obvious reason for why that comment comes up a lot even if they're not complaining...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	No weight? You really lost me there. We must be watching different videos. The only time you see major movement is when the player is airborne, and then you see movement as expected. As for the rest, you see actual momentum in play as the player falls down or continues their run.

Nope, we're watching the same videos...

It would be redundant to go over each hit, because the outcome looks the same. The offensive player is hit in a way that he looks powerless as if his weight doesn't matter. How often do you see NFL runningbacks get blown up like that during the course of a game? Once, if that? And it's often because they weren't expecting it and so they didn't brace properly to get their weight into the bracing. For goodness sake, the BB player is getting his bell rung like every time out, lol. He shoud be dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	The movement isn't all that much different from APF2K8, in fact, I think I saw several player positionings that looked very reminscent of APF2K8. There's an article somewhere that someone wrote up comapring AFP2K8 and backbreaker. I'll have to find it. The comparison will probably shock you.

I've read some things like that and all it sounds like to me are people hoping for something that isn't real. I read one where a guy tried to prove that NM was in APF 2K8, lol. It ran for a while but it got dissected. It ended sadly, lol. I still chuckle about it from time to time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	When I think of no weight / momentum, then the first football game that comes to mind (next gen) is Madden.

You're talking about controls. I'm talking about the way the offensive player is getting brutalized on every hit as if he's unable to put weight into bracing himself.

# 78 Valdarez @ 05/09/09 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	Nope, we're watching the same videos... It would be redundant to go over each hit, because the outcome looks the same. The offensive player is hit in a way that he looks powerless as if his weight doesn't matter.

Actually I think we should go over each hit, because your statement is obscenely incorrect. The outcome look the same? As if his weight doesn't matter? That's the entire purpose of Euphoria. Are you sure your not watching tackling in Madden by mistake? In the IGN video I posted, the offensive player falls forward based on real world physics.

At :30 he gets hit and continues forward until hit again
At :32 again, he falls forward
At :37 seconds he falls forward (clearly)

Backbreaker at IGN.com

The only time he's not falling forward is when there is a clear / solid hit to the midsection, at which point both players stop, but movement is still a little forward, as would be expected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	How often do you see NFL runningbacks get blown up like that during the course of a game?

Did you even watch the entire video? Your comments seem to be based off just a couple of the tackles. As far as the NFL goes, I would wager it looks a lot more violent the closer you are to the action. I'm sure some of the guys who padded up can attest to that.

Out of curiosity, do you honestly think Madden '09 accurately represeted the type of hitting/tackling you see on Sunday?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	You're talking about controls. I'm talking about the way the offensive player is getting brutalized on every hit as if he's unable to put weight into bracing himself.

The lack of momentum in Madden has nothing to do with controls. It has do with how players move, pick up speed, change direction, finish out runs, and with relation to this thread - make tackles. There's absolutely no feel of momentum in Madden. If Madden is all you have played, then I can understand why you perceive there to be such a disparity between Madden and the videos we have on backbreaker, because they are literally night and day.

# 79 roadman @ 05/09/09 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	Actually I think we should go over each hit, because your statement is obscenely incorrect. The outcome look the same? As if his weight doesn't matter? That's the entire purpose of Euphoria. Are you sure your not watching tackling in Madden by mistake? In the IGN video I posted, the offensive player falls forward based on real world physics. At :30 he gets hit and continues forward until hit again At :32 again, he falls forward At :37 seconds he falls forward (clearly) Backbreaker at IGN.com The only time he's not falling forward is when there is a clear / solid hit to the midsection, at which point both players stop, but movement is still a little forward, as would be expected. Did you even watch the entire video? Your comments seem to be based off just a couple of the tackles. As far as the NFL goes, I would wager it looks a lot more violent the closer you are to the action. I'm sure some of the guys who padded up can attest to that. Out of curiosity, do you honestly think Madden '09 accurately represeted the type of hitting/tackling you see on Sunday? The lack of momentum in Madden has nothing to do with controls. It has do with how players move, pick up speed, change direction, finish out runs, and with relation to this thread - make tackles. There's absolutely no feel of momentum in Madden. If Madden is all you have played, then I can understand why you perceive there to be such a disparity between Madden and the videos we have on backbreaker, because they are literally night and day.

Valderez, just an FYI on who you are dealing with here. People take so many assumptions on the net.

The Watcher is avid 2k fan. He was one of the people that were chosen by Ian for CD. Ian selected a great person with constructive criticism of past Maddens.

The Watcher brought a game of 2k5 with him and announced to everyone that if Madden 10 wasn't as good as 2k5, he would start playing 2k5. 2k5 never came out of the case.

The Watcher can verify that with me when he returns, but that was the story that was told on CD.

The Watcher , to my knowledge, is not a fan of past Maddens.

Just an FYI.

# 80 TDogg09 @ 05/09/09 01:27 AM

All I know is both games look pretty awesome in their own right. Both have good qualities, both have bad. The fact is they're different and they're not going for the same thing-Madden is going for realism and sim, Backbreaker is going for more arcade (or so I read in one of the previews). We won't be able to make a comparison everyone is satisfied with until we see substantially more of each game.

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