Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by polamalu82

Say you never seen the game Madden before. Now all you had to base your judgment on Madden is what they've been hyping(pro-tak). Everyone would assume the majority of the tackles in this "new" game Madden are gang tackles. Do you see what I'm getting at? Nobody wants to see "boring" tackles. You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle.

But with Pro-Tak though, we've seen other things besides gangs as the tech extends to other things. Also, there are some comments I've read where I'm convinced some people really do think the majority of the tackles in Madden 10 will be gangs, lol, but that makes less sense than what could be assumed with BB, because with Madden we've seen video of other tackles besides gangs. All we've seen are aggressive tackles in BB.

As for selling the sizzle... I think it depends on what's to be considered sizzle. When 2K was pushing maximum tackle they showed lots of wrap-ups. It looked great and they knew who they were targeting with it. Sim players of that franchise wanted that badly. If BB is wishing to do the same, then they've chosen a strange way of doing it, lol.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by speedy9386

Once again I'll say IN THIS VIDEO THE DEFENSE IS SET TO AGGRESIVE, IN REAL GAMES THEY DON'T TACKLE LIKE THAT.

And I'll say once again... UNTIL THEY SHOW ME VIDEO THAT'S NOT AGGRESSIVE, THE JURY WILL REMAIN OUT.

Simple as that. Right now I guess we're to assume that every video they've shown, it's been set to aggressive? Maybe, maybe not, no one knows that but them. But let's not pretend that the video here is the only one, because they're all aggressive.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pandemonium00

They haven't even begun their media blitz on what this game [Backbreaker] offers. You have to be kidding me if you say these player models are unrealistic and the tackles are "arcadish."

I didn't say anything about the player models, but since you mentioned it... yep, they are unrealistic. Have you ever seen football equipment like what they're wearing?

Supposedly the game theme is futuristic. I don't buy that. I think they just took the models they had from their demonstrations and decided to just leave them as-is, and when people questioned it they had to come up with an explanation. It might actually wind up being the theme, but I think it's more patchwork than initial intent.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pandemonium00

Show me some Madden animations or plays that are more true-to-life; you have yet to do this.

I've never said Madden's animations are the beacon of realism, but I could certainly show you tons of wrap tackles even in "sizzle" videos. Wraps are truER-to-life, crash derby is not.

[polamalu82]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

But with Pro-Tak though, we've seen other things besides gangs as the tech extends to other things. Also, there are some comments I've read where I'm convinced some people really do think the majority of the tackles in Madden 10 will be gangs, lol, but that makes less sense than what could be assumed with BB, because with Madden we've seen video of other tackles besides gangs. All we've seen are aggressive tackles in BB. As for selling the sizzle... I think it depends on what's to be considered sizzle. When 2K was pushing maximum tackle they showed lots of wrap-ups. It looked great and they knew who they were targeting with it. Sim players of that franchise wanted that badly. If BB is wishing to do the same, then they've chosen a strange way of doing it, lol.

The way I look at it all BB advertising is a moot point until E3. At E3 we should finally be able to paint a good picture as to what this game offers. Until then, calling it over the top is just speculation, and I know that's 99% of what we do around here.lol

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

I have followed the game myself, watched the vids (though it's been awhile), and read the BB forums here and there. I don't agree with this view as it relates to the tackles.

You're not going to find much opposition on the BB forums because most of those people have already proclaimed BB as the savior of football video games.

I read things from all over the place, blogs, forums, etc. I hear a lot people say the tackles look cool, but I hear a lot of "wow those hits are vicious" and there's an obvious reason for why that comment comes up a lot even if they're not complaining...

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

No weight? You really lost me there. We must be watching different videos. The only time you see major movement is when the player is airborne, and then you see movement as expected. As for the rest, you see actual momentum in play as the player falls down or continues their run.

Nope, we're watching the same videos...

It would be redundant to go over each hit, because the outcome looks the same. The offensive player is hit in a way that he looks powerless as if his weight doesn't matter. How often do you see NFL runningbacks get blown up like that during the course of a game? Once, if that? And it's often because they weren't expecting it and so they didn't brace properly to get their weight into the bracing. For goodness sake, the BB player is getting his bell rung like every time out, lol. He shoud be dead.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

The movement isn't all that much different from APF2K8, in fact, I think I saw several player positionings that looked very reminscent of APF2K8. There's an article somewhere that someone wrote up comapring AFP2K8 and backbreaker. I'll have to find it. The comparison will probably shock you.

I've read some things like that and all it sounds like to me are people hoping for something that isn't real. I read one where a guy tried to prove that NM was in APF 2K8, lol. It ran for a while but it got dissected. It ended sadly, lol. I still chuckle about it from time to time.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

When I think of no weight / momentum, then the first football game that comes to mind (next gen) is Madden.

You're talking about controls. I'm talking about the way the offensive player is getting brutalized on every hit as if he's unable to put weight into bracing himself.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Nope, we're watching the same videos... It would be redundant to go over each hit, because the outcome looks the same. The offensive player is hit in a way that he looks powerless as if his weight doesn't matter.

Actually I think we should go over each hit, because your statement is obscenely incorrect. The outcome look the same? As if his weight doesn't matter? That's the entire purpose of Euphoria. Are you sure your not watching tackling in Madden by mistake? In the IGN video I posted, the offensive player falls forward based on real world physics.

At :30 he gets hit and continues forward until hit again
At :32 again, he falls forward
At :37 seconds he falls forward (clearly)

Backbreaker at IGN.com

The only time he's not falling forward is when there is a clear / solid hit to the midsection, at which point both players stop, but movement is still a little forward, as would be expected.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

How often do you see NFL runningbacks get blown up like that during the course of a game?

Did you even watch the entire video? Your comments seem to be based off just a couple of the tackles. As far as the NFL goes, I would wager it looks a lot more violent the closer you are to the action. I'm sure some of the guys who padded up can attest to that.

Out of curiosity, do you honestly think Madden '09 accurately represeted the type of hitting/tackling you see on Sunday?

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

You're talking about controls. I'm talking about the way the offensive player is getting brutalized on every hit as if he's unable to put weight into bracing himself.

The lack of momentum in Madden has nothing to do with controls. It has do with how players move, pick up speed, change direction, finish out runs, and with relation to this thread - make tackles. There's absolutely no feel of momentum in Madden. If Madden is all you have played, then I can understand why you perceive there to be such a disparity between Madden and the videos we have on backbreaker, because they are literally night and day.

[Pandemonium00]

Don't compare with such an old video. It's an "alpha build," as that seems to be the excuse thrown around here about the Pro-Tak videos. Why not with this?

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Actually I think we should go over each hit, because your statement is obscenely incorrect. The outcome look the same? As if his weight doesn't matter? That's the entire purpose of Euphoria. Are you sure your not watching tackling in Madden by mistake? In the IGN video I posted, the offensive player falls forward based on real world physics. At :30 he gets hit and continues forward until hit again At :32 again, he falls forward At :37 seconds he falls forward (clearly) Backbreaker at IGN.com The only time he's not falling forward is when there is a clear / solid hit to the midsection, at which point both players stop, but movement is still a little forward, as would be expected. Did you even watch the entire video? Your comments seem to be based off just a couple of the tackles. As far as the NFL goes, I would wager it looks a lot more violent the closer you are to the action. I'm sure some of the guys who padded up can attest to that. Out of curiosity, do you honestly think Madden '09 accurately represeted the type of hitting/tackling you see on Sunday? The lack of momentum in Madden has nothing to do with controls. It has do with how players move, pick up speed, change direction, finish out runs, and with relation to this thread - make tackles. There's absolutely no feel of momentum in Madden. If Madden is all you have played, then I can understand why you perceive there to be such a disparity between Madden and the videos we have on backbreaker, because they are literally night and day.

Valderez, just an FYI on who you are dealing with here. People take so many assumptions on the net.

The Watcher is avid 2k fan. He was one of the people that were chosen by Ian for CD. Ian selected a great person with constructive criticism of past Maddens.

The Watcher brought a game of 2k5 with him and announced to everyone that if Madden 10 wasn't as good as 2k5, he would start playing 2k5. 2k5 never came out of the case.

The Watcher can verify that with me when he returns, but that was the story that was told on CD.

The Watcher , to my knowledge, is not a fan of past Maddens.

Just an FYI.