*****OFFICIAL COMMUNITY DRAFT/ROSTER UPDATE*****

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by dan77733

What im saying is that if you have a 100 rated RB and a 70 rated RB, you wont do as good with the 70 rated RB as you will with the 100 rated RB no matter what their break tackle attribute is. Break tackle affects the CPU more then it does the human player. Play a 5 minute per quarter game on Legend as is and I guarantee that you'll do better with Westbrook then you'll do with Moats. Play two seperate games against the same CPU team. Unless you use cheap or trick running plays, getting 100 yards with Westbrook will be easier to do then with a 70 rated Moats. I guarantee it.

I understand what you're saying but you know theres more to it then that as far as that 100 to 70 comparision goes among others and I've seen players at 68 and 70 perform well and 100 rated players "Crash" and "Burn" a bigger number is not a true indicator of any players skill and performance level and the same applies in real life in the form of "Special Team Players" who are skilled at special feats and beside Dan77733 you outta know...

"Its not always the bigger "Dawg" in the fight but the "Fight" in that der "Dawg"!


Numbers can fool ya sometimes and I know you're aware of that but comon we've all been here before and the games engine hasn't changed so we're basically all quite familiar with it and its sometime strange behavior.

I like your system and its simular to a "Tier" system and its application can be used to sort and see top tier players and categorize them, thats one effective way and simular to what Nick Chew used and probably still is.

I have a method thats more stat based and worked into the gameplay yielding statistical data some guys use a "Sim" method by actually using the games own method of calculating figures, basically its a computer and it calculates the results you can see based on the numbers they don't lie.

The game can play up to alot of different ways and most guys have their own methods of figuring things out with great results and there really is no one way or method because they all work to a certain degree and any gamer playing long enough will figure it out but in the end its what works for you and how your interpetation of Football goes some are "Hardcore", "Casual" and then there are some in the middle and they all work for the most part.

Thats why in its purest form as far as gameplay goes the CPU does a pretty good job of making it look and play like Football regardless of what you do to it or the players as long as you don't over edit or exaggerate anything, you're method, mines, Nick Chews, and Flipmo23s all work and are all very effective we've all been here and done that before and its worked for me since the first 2K game appeared and continues today we all win and having different points of view helps because that means there is more then one roster for 2K7 our version in an attempt to keep the series going you have you ways and methods and we have ours both proven and effective so thats a good thing IMO and we're all in this together so whats wrong with a little variety its competivly healthy and insoire a whole new and different set of rosters possibly and that a good thing because again we all win!!!






Holla Back ya'll
Rickster101

[thebeav]

Great job guys!! Thanks for doing what I just don't have the energy to do. I can't wait to use these as my base. I do something a little different for mine. I hate the game but I love Maddens ratings. So I use the Madden ratings that directly transfer to 2k5. The overalls come out way high, but I love how the game plays.

Are you going to change everyones age? I know it's a pain since Finns editor can't globally do it, but I like for that to be accurate.

Thanks again guys

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by thebeav

Great job guys!! Thanks for doing what I just don't have the energy to do. I can't wait to use these as my base. I do something a little different for mine. I hate the game but I love Maddens ratings. So I use the Madden ratings that directly transfer to 2k5. The overalls come out way high, but I love how the game plays. Are you going to change everyones age? I know it's a pain since Finns editor can't globally do it, but I like for that to be accurate. Thanks again guys

Well we'll change ages in accordence to their profiles and other data thats part of their profile so they will be accurate and you'll be able to DL a what we'd consider a serious and bonified 2K7 roster, not from VC or anything like that they're "Outta Buisness" so we're just keepin' it going and having fun doing it to because we enjoy 2K Football and aren't done yet we can and have gotten some more years outta this wonderful game...its fun!!!

I've used Madden ratings before and know guys who also use those ratings found at "FBG Madden" an excellent site that has all the ratings but in Madden format which aren't to much different from VCs ratings system thats another one of the methods guys like yourself use so theres more then one way to do ratings and you've chosen an excellent way of going about and as I've stated before the can work also...seems like you've found your niche bro and it should work out for using the method you've settled on using.

I thought I'd mention this to you since you use Madden ratings, there is a member here who uses them also and has figured out a way to convert and streamline them abit more to "Fit" in he's been in touch with me about this and has a spreadsheet showing and explaining this conversion...I plan on contacting him and keeping this option open I've seen his work and it looks legit so its something we can have as another viable option for making adjustments and ratings...I like choice and options!!!





Holla Back ya'll
Rickster101

[Flipmo23]

Quote: Originally Posted by dan77733

... the higher you're drafted, the better rating you should have... who turns out to be good or crap remains to be seen.

I disagree. The only factor that should affect a player's overall rating, should be, well, his ratings. As I stated before, I will NOT augment a players attributes farther than what he is actually capable of doing for the sake of hitting an overall "target". If I make a guy like Ferguson, and his pass block is 70, and his run block is 70 as a rookie, then that is more than good enough for me, regardless of how his overall comes out to be.

Quote:

I have my own rating setup when it comes to rookies that's based on the round - 1 - 82 / 80 / 77 2 - 77 / 75 3 - 72 / 70 4 - 68 / 65 5 - 62 / 60 6 - 58 / 55 7 - 52 / 50 Sometimes, I have to edit ratings depending on whether or not the player is a starter. I currently have Leinart and Young rated 82 each with Cutler at 80. I go based on what round the player was drafted in.

I won't ridicule your setup, as it is yours, but IMO 96 rookies (the first three rounds) over 70 rating WILL throw off the balance of the game. That is way too many good players. But again, that is how you choose to do it. But IMO that puts too much emphasis on the rookies over the vets, as 70 is a good rating in this game, I don't understand how people think a 70 is a bad rating.

Quote:

Man, you're going have to do a lot of testing to get the players to play like their real life counterparts.

So be it.

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by dan77733

I know what you mean about the roster updates. I could never DL a 2k5 roster update as that damn 3 minute time limit always expired before the download was complete. I also know what you mean by editing players throughout the season and whatnot based on their performance. I'm just too lazy to edit attributes and whatnot after the season ends especially when some players might change positions or become starters or backups. I also wait until the following season because I'll have my football book in front of me which makes it so much easier to check how players did stat wise then it is to look on the internet. Can you be a little more clearer on the schedule thing though? I havent talked to Finn in weeks but I did ask him to edit the "time" option. It's setup from 12pm to 9pm. I asked Finn if he could extend it from 12pm to 10pm. I know that you have to edit two games on the schedule because of the game's setup to have bye weeks for teams from week 3 to week 10. If you're talking about the two games in week 10 that have question marks on them, check out my schedule topic as I posted how to fix that.

Yeah I've read everything you posted on the topic and like I said very well explained. I've been busy with this roster buisness and whatnot and haven't contacted Finn about it because I thought you were so I waited to see what news you found out as far as making that a perment change.

Let me know if you're going to get in touch with him because I don't want to sound repetative buggin' him with multiple messages, I'll wait to hear from you and see if either one of use can get Finn to make those changes in the schedule.

I know you've figured that out and I would recommend what you posted but some guys aren't skilled at the editor and its awesome power so getting Finn to update that change would benifit those guys because using the editor the way you and I do may go over the heads of some of our casual members so lets see if we can get in touch and see what Finn can do to help out (as he always does) he really caught onto that post you droped awhile back about the editor schedule and something you pointed out, I forgot exactly what it was but you've been good at finding those little items so important to all of us roster and editor makers doing 2K Football...drop Finn a line and lets see what he can do about an update to the schedule and those dates!







Holla Back ya'll
Rickster101

[dan77733]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rickster101

I understand what you're saying but you know theres more to it then that as far as that 100 to 70 comparision goes among others and I've seen players at 68 and 70 perform well and 100 rated players "Crash" and "Burn" a bigger number is not a true indicator of any players skill and performance level and the same applies in real life in the form of "Special Team Players" who are skilled at special feats and beside Dan77733 you outta know... "Its not always the bigger "Dawg" in the fight but the "Fight" in that der "Dawg"! Numbers can fool ya sometimes and I know you're aware of that but comon we've all been here before and the games engine hasn't changed so we're basically all quite familiar with it and its sometime strange behavior. I like your system and its simular to a "Tier" system and its application can be used to sort and see top tier players and categorize them, thats one effective way and simular to what Nick Chew used and probably still is. I have a method thats more stat based and worked into the gameplay yielding statistical data some guys use a "Sim" method by actually using the games own method of calculating figures, basically its a computer and it calculates the results you can see based on the numbers they don't lie. The game can play up to alot of different ways and most guys have their own methods of figuring things out with great results and there really is no one way or method because they all work to a certain degree and any gamer playing long enough will figure it out but in the end its what works for you and how your interpetation of Football goes some are "Hardcore", "Casual" and then there are some in the middle and they all work for the most part. Thats why in its purest form as far as gameplay goes the CPU does a pretty good job of making it look and play like Football regardless of what you do to it or the players as long as you don't over edit or exaggerate anything, you're method, mines, Nick Chews, and Flipmo23s all work and are all very effective we've all been here and done that before and its worked for me since the first 2K game appeared and continues today we all win and having different points of view helps because that means there is more then one roster for 2K7 our version in an attempt to keep the series going you have you ways and methods and we have ours both proven and effective so thats a good thing IMO and we're all in this together so whats wrong with a little variety its competivly healthy and insoire a whole new and different set of rosters possibly and that a good thing because again we all win!!!

I agree with you about lower drafted players outperforming higher drafted players but until the 2006 season is finished, I'll stay with my current setup for rookies. To me, seeing a first rounder rated lower then a fifth rounder is nuts because after all, there's a reason why players get drafted in the first round and why others fall to the later rounds. Also, most first rounders will start from day one where as others who get drafted on the second day will be mainly backups and special teamers.

We all have out own setups and whatnot for one main reason - it's because we want the roster that we are going to use our way. I'm not bashing anyone or anything but lets be honest, if a player like DE Mario Williams gets drafted overall number 1, he shouldnt be lower then other's drafted after him at DE. That's bullcrap. He'll start from day 1. He's not a backup. Looking at my 49ers, both first rounders will be starting from day 1. TE Vernon Davis and OLB Manny Lawson will start from day 1 and im not going to rate them lower then other players in the same position that will be backups. If a lower drafted player becomes a starter due to injury or whatnot, then his rating will be adjusted to show that.

Last year, I had Eagles WR Reggie Brown at 77 but Pinkston was going to be the starter before he got injured so I lowered Brown to 75 in order to make him the third receiver. I try to have ratings based on if the player is a starter or a backup and then adjust them accordingly. For example, in my 49ers roster for 2k7, OT Jonas Jennings will be the highest rated OT because he's the top starter. Adam Snyder will be second if he beats out Kwamie Harris who'll be third.

That's how I try to setup my ratings for rookies and players in general. Having a fourth stringer rated higher then a starter is a no-no for me. I hate it when backups are rated higher then starters. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I dont want you to think that im bashing anyone because im not but going based on the formula that's being used is going to make some players higher or lower then they should be. For example, OLB Manny Lawson is rated 72 in the community roster but Haralson is at 68 or so. A fifth rounder being only 4 points behind the 22nd overall draft pick is unrealistic to me especially when one is already guaranteed to start while the other will be lucky to even make the final roster.

I just dont think that's fair but to each his own. One thing is for sure - the more rosters available for 2k5, the better off we'll all be.

[thenbagamer]

i like ur idea, dan

[dan77733]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flipmo23

I disagree. The only factor that should affect a player's overall rating, should be, well, his ratings. As I stated before, I will NOT augment a players attributes farther than what he is actually capable of doing for the sake of hitting an overall "target". If I make a guy like Ferguson, and his pass block is 70, and his run block is 70 as a rookie, then that is more than good enough for me, regardless of how his overall comes out to be.

Let me ask you this - say when you finish creating Ferguson (who'll start at LT on Sept. 10) and his overall rating is lower then RT Adrian Jones or even Anthony Clement, do you think that's fair and realistic? I dont. Also, how about if you have Ferguson rated lower then say Justice on your Eagles. What happens there? Do you think that its fair for a starting LT in Ferguson who was drafted 4th overall to be rated lower then Justice who will be a backup and was drafted 35 spots later? Again, that's not fair at all.

I want starters to be rated higher then backups because they should be. If a rookie starts over a veteran (no matter who it is) then his rating will show it. And BTW, I havent checked Ferguson but I really hope his blocking is only 70 because he dominated at the Senior Bowl and the NFL Combine.

Quote: Originally Posted by Flipmo23

I won't ridicule your setup, as it is yours, but IMO 96 rookies (the first three rounds) over 70 rating WILL throw off the balance of the game. That is way too many good players. But again, that is how you choose to do it. But IMO that puts too much emphasis on the rookies over the vets, as 70 is a good rating in this game, I don't understand how people think a 70 is a bad rating.

Yeah, but out of those 96 rookies, how many of them will even be starting or playing enough to make an impact? Maybe half. Most will be third stringers and special teamers. I think that a 70 or 72 rated player is solid but not good or great. Good players are in the 80's with great players in the 90's. That's how I look at it.

Here's an example using my 49ers - I have WR Arnaz Battle at 68 in my 2k6 roster but he's going to be the starter opposite Bryant with rookie WR Brandon Williams being the third receiver. Williams will be most likely 72 in my 2k7 roster which would make him the second highest rated WR but since Battle is going to be the second starter, I'll increase Battle to surpass Williams. You may say - why not rate Williams lower then 68 and the reason why I wouldnt do that is simple. It throws off all the other rookies that my 49ers drafted as well as in general and that's not a good thing.

You also have to remember that I dont use that Weekly Prep garbage so if Williams starts the season at 72, he'll stay that way until the following season when the random/pre-programmed player progression occurs. And while Williams may seem high at 72, also take into consideration that no one knows how he's going to progress in future years.

I played an Eagles franchise a few weeks ago and broke Harrison's reception record, Rice's receiving yards record and the record for most receiving and total TD's with Terrell Owens. Guess what? He dropped two points to 98 in the second season. Now, of course he cant go any higher then 100 but you would think that after breaking all those records, there's no way in hell that he drops in rating.

And again, im not bashing you or anyone else Flipmo. You're obviously putting a lot of time and effort into your roster trying to make it the best it can be but at the same time, you're creating the roster the way you see fit, just like when im creating my roster.

Either way, in the end, all that matters is that there are rosters available for 2k5 and I say, the more the better. Also, the different setups that everyone uses is a positive because it makes all the rosters different from each other and that's a good thing.