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What NBA 2K Needs to Do to Step Up Its Online Game

Looking Back -- What NBA 2K needs to do to step up its online game, Part One Of Two: Why I'm Keeping Pest Control on Speed Dial

I love basketball, and perhaps just as much, I love a good, competitive online game; in fact, when it comes to sports games, the online mode is about the only part that I spend my time with these days.

That’s why my body forced me to vomit up the stinky, moldy cheese that Visual Concepts tried to feed me when it came to NBA 2K8 ranked online games: as an online experience, it was neither good nor competitive –- at least, not in the "fair" sense of the word –- and while I came in expecting sustenance, I left with a bad case of food poisoning.

To be honest, I probably would have never noticed these issues had I just stuck to playing OSers and the A.I., but I just had to go and play random people in ranked matches.

Visual Concepts' most recent entry (until tomorrow), NBA 2K8, was particularly discouraging, in that, the series was beginning to show symptoms of a serious pest-control problem, making the game more or less unplayable for those of us who just wanted to hop into a lobby and play a "real" game of basketball without being bothered by the tireless squeaking of rodents.

Rattus Norvegicus, colloquially refereed to as “lobby rat.”
But when developers choose to leave that same cheese sitting out in the open, year after year, your company has no one to blame but itself for not only letting all the rats in, but also, creating an environment in which those rats can thrive.

Perhaps, then, it’s a bit of poetic justice that those rats are the ones who, with the growing popularity of Visual Concepts' flagship series and of online play in general, have ripped 2K's online play to shreds, clawed out its eyes, feasted on its flesh, and left behind a bloody, skeletal mess, barely recognizable as belonging to the genus of online hoops. Did I go too far with that image?

WARNING!

The videos you are about to see contain graphic, disturbing images of exploitation and sadistic torture.

Any resemblance to the National Basketball Association or the sport of basketball as founded by James A. Naismith is purely coincidental:


The Holy Trinity of Cheese:



Exhibit A) The Running Dunk Through Traffic


NBA 2K8 online: too much like Mike


Note to Visual Concepts: this is the NBA, not an AND 1 tour, or a Nike commercial.

And in the NBA, dunks like the exploit in the above video are exceedingly rare (I see two or three a year, max), not a source of easy points every time down the court online.

Exhibit B) Lead pass + Standing Dunk


Warmups, a.k.a., about the only time you’ll ever see a standing dunk attempted during an organized basketball game.


"Lead passing" – it certainly sounds like something that belongs in a basketball simulation. But that’s before you step onto one of 2K’s poorly spaced courts, and realize that “lead passing” is ridiculously difficult to defend against online.

As if your opponent being able to “lead pass” his way through traffic wasn’t bad enough, when you couple lead passing with the unblockable “standing dunk,” the feature goes from being moderately annoying to the key ingredient in an unstoppable, game-breaking money play.

Exhibit C) Constant Pressing and Double-Teaming

Apparently, the NBA 2K online fraternity only accepts graduates from the Rick Pitino School of Coaching:

 


Because Pitino wills it: full-court pressure on every possession, with double-teams coming constantly, one after another.

Considering how coach Pitino's playing style –- and thus, his professional coaching career –- completely self-destructed in the “real” NBA, I think it's no stretch to say that these kind of tactics have no place in a game that aims to emulate the NBA experience.

This is not to say that users shouldn't be able to choose from these defensive options, only, that they should be properly penalized for doing so, just like Pitino's Celtic teams were, accumulating 102 wins and 146 losses from 1997 to 2001.

Those losses came in part because Pitino’s brand of pressure defense gives up fast breaks, wide-open shots, and uncontested layups to teams who can find and hit the open man, which full-court pressure and double-teams naturally generate.

Note that when I say, "teams who can find and hit the open man…" this encompasses virtually every team in the NBA.

You see, Pitino's defensive system failed in part because NBA players can tear pressure defenses apart with a degree of speed, court vision, and passing skills that few college teams possess.

NBA 2K fails to live up to its end of the "simulation" bargain online, because it makes every NBA team handle full-court and double-team pressure like a bunch of high school underclassmen. Let's list the issues that occur in these aggravating online situations.
  • Players run away from trapped teammates instead of running towards them.
  • Ball-handlers get "sucked into" double-team animations and are unable to do much of anything while in the animation.
  • Passes in general are slow and floaty when they should be sharp and crisp in the backcourt.
  • On the few occasions where the pass actually makes it into the breadbasket of an open teammate, that teammate often stands there and lets the ball bounce off him like a bullet off the chest of The Incredible Hulk.
  • Throwing long-intermediate passes is akin to playing a game of Russian roulette with a revolver full of turnovers.


These idiosyncrasies delight cheesers everywhere because they realize they can still cuddle with their copies of Success is a Choice and proudly salute the Double Team poster hanging from their parents' wall.

If you have one of these somewhere in your house, consider yourself an enemy of the people.


Even if Visual Concepts can fix all those pressure-related gameplay issues, there is still one other major factor that, after nine years of 2K basketball games, needs to be accounted for: Teams who play a “high-pressure” style of defense need to fatigue at a much faster rate than teams who are playing more "relaxed" styles of defense.

Going back to my "real world" example, part of what made Rick Pitino’s pressure defense so effective at the University of Kentucky was the fact that his teams would use at least a 12-man rotation to wear out the other team's seven- or eight-man rotation over the course of the game.

And yet, in NBA 2K, you don't even need a rotation online at all! I mean, why bother to take out your star players when they never get tired enough to warrant a substitution? Especially when a simple timeout or the end of a quarter/half will have those star players coming out of the huddle feeling just as fresh as they were in the first minutes of the first quarter.

But there is more afoul in the game’s online fatigue system than its failure to account for various styles of defense. There is also the issue of individual effort, specifically, how hard gamers choose to push the players who are under their control.

Even though the NBA is a much more deliberate game than what you will find on the average collegiate basketball court, most NBA 2K gamers push their players like virtual Bob Knights, making the players they control go all-out, playing at full-speed for virtually every second of the game.

The NBA 2K series continues to allow these speed freaks to run their players ragged online, and if NBA 2K wishes to better-simulate the sport of pro basketball, it must penalize these lead-fingered felons, and force them to exercise a modicum of restraint.

Sadly, sprinting, pressing, and double-teaming are but the tip of the iceberg when it comes to "things that should -- but don’t -- tire out NBA 2K players online.

In addition, there are actions like the repeated use of isolation dribbling, long three point shots, fancy dunks, jumping around like a team of jack-rabbits on defense, taking a lot of contact in the paint, etc., all of which should come with some kind of fatigue penalty, but do not.

But, if it is too much work for the developers to go through the game and program new fatigue values for all of the above actions, why not just incorporate the type of "turbo bar" that games like NBA Jam, NBA Hangtime, NBA Street, et al. have used to keep people from going overboard with the turbo, dunks, and special moves?

Why not give us a bar that partially depletes any time an "aggressive" move is triggered, then have the amount of "bar" that’s available impact the type/amount of "aggressive" moves that a player can do?

For example, if a player is expending all his effort on defense (example: Paul Pierce guarding Kobe Bryant in last year’s NBA Finals), it should make that player less effective on offense, such that he has a significantly limited ability to use "aggressive" moves while he's recovering energy on the offensive end of the court.

The opposite scenario could apply for someone like Kobe Bryant, who might -- as he was in those same NBA Finals -- be expending all his effort on offense, forcing him to play way off his man on defense so he could conserve "energy" by playing a kind of sagging, roaming help-defense.


But with that in mind, this is where part one of the journey ends. Join me Tuesday for part two, as we look forward to some of the new features that may enhance the online experience in NBA 2K9.


NBA 2K9 Videos
Member Comments
# 1 DC @ 10/06/08 03:51 PM
They won't listen
 
# 2 RoyceDa59 @ 10/06/08 03:56 PM
Wow i did not know you could do all that in the game. I rarely played online because I would always play my brother and maybe a few other people.
 
# 3 mackman3 @ 10/06/08 03:56 PM
wow.....so in depth
 
# 4 Kushmir @ 10/06/08 04:01 PM
GREEAAAAT article...best i've had in some time. TRUE INDEED: Fatigue is a must, and let's see more fouls (becuse there aren't enough) called when dfenses try these ultra-aggressive tactics. and DUNKING? instead of seeing TOO MANY BLOCKS (which is bad too) let's see offensiev players bottled up, losing their dribble and forced into bad shots that rarely go in when the defenders are where they chould be.
 
# 5 PlatinumJuice @ 10/06/08 04:03 PM
for everyone that compains about lack of "sim game" there are two that don't care and enjoy a fast paced game...
 
# 6 uscpaperboy @ 10/06/08 04:13 PM
I thought u were goin to speak on the points of the amount of intentional disconnections which could be fixed with a quit game opiton like madden, how easy it is to strip someone on a fast break going for a layup, the fact that yao doesnt miss, u cant set ur def matchups to double team always or even the lag on a jumpshot. But what you are basically complaining about is the lack of user skill or what some call cheesing. Just bc u cant break a press doesnt mean it's chessing. Players usually don't get tired bc its 5 min qtr. how would it look if 1:30 into the game and ur whole starting lineup is tired. You complain now about fatigue but ppl will continue to press which would result in both teams being tired. Wouldn't you enjoy playing the 4th qtr with Leon Powe and Glen Davis banging against Chris Mihm and Trevor Ariza? I think not. I will admit that dunking traffic or pts in the paint accounts for 80% of online pts though. But there are ways to stop it. Play off the ball and in the paint and intercept the passes yourself. Sometimes you just have understand your skill level and adjust. If u hate a fast pace game slow down the tempo on off and get stops on D. But its just my opinion...
 
# 7 DubTrey1 @ 10/06/08 04:46 PM
Sad but true - Which is why I stayed away from online hoops altogether thus far.
 
# 8 Muzyk23 @ 10/06/08 04:48 PM
seriously..I don't give an ish about online
 
# 9 Krafty @ 10/06/08 04:57 PM
You have valid points. But gamers find ways around it. I have found ways to stop these problems. You just have a adapt to how that player is playing you. It also amazes me that you didn't even talk about the worst one there was which makes me think you hardly gave it a fair shot. The Pick N' Roll bug was the WORST. If you had someone with a 90 or better dunk and a elite big man it was almost impossible to stop. Pick at the top of the key and if your stud couldn't get to his dunking animation in time you would always be able to chuck it inside to the picker who has since rolled downlow and get you "standing dunk"

All I did was play online and usually had great opponents.

IMO this is a good article. But you gotta finds ways around what people are doing to you online. Find a good player that has a good REP and a good disconnect percentage and you will always have a good game. I played no one under 80%. I was deeply satisfied with the leagues I was in even though the rate of the completing was almost zero. People will always find ways to exploit the game. They should be penalized for using the tactic but damn, it should start with the Developers and the testers for the games. It's their fault it's in the game.
 
# 10 swetooth9 @ 10/06/08 05:01 PM
I know the lead pass if fixed in 2k9 b/c the players' hands are better this year at picking off balls in the passing lanes...dunno about the double team glitch and foul-line dunks yet though
 
# 11 BlackRome @ 10/06/08 05:10 PM
If you played on Hall of Fame where the real ballers play that BS would have been eliminated.

You could actually body Kobe up on Hall of Fame.
Gasol would get his shot blocked or miss if you played good D.
You could also get the strip.

The double team bug was fixed during one of the first patches.

If you know how to run the point you should have no problem with the press. People that press all day don't know what they are doing.
You have to control the tempo.

I can't stress enough for you to stay away from the superstar level online..
Hall of Fame actually forces you to set up plays and take good shots because the layup is not automatic.

It's almost harder to score in the paint.
which it should be. Hall of Fame rewards you for contesting shots. .

Superstar level is for the Live Fans. Hall Of Fame is for true 2K Ballers.

Step your game up to the top room.
 
# 12 emelki1968 @ 10/06/08 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krafty
You have valid points. But gamers find ways around it. I have found ways to stop these problems. You just have a adapt to how that player is playing you. It also amazes me that you didn't even talk about the worst one there was which makes me think you hardly gave it a fair shot. The Pick N' Roll bug was the WORST. If you had someone with a 90 or better dunk and a elite big man it was almost impossible to stop. Pick at the top of the key and if your stud couldn't get to his dunking animation in time you would always be able to chuck it inside to the picker who has since rolled downlow and get you "standing dunk"

All I did was play online and usually had great opponents.

IMO this is a good article. But you gotta finds ways around what people are doing to you online. Find a good player that has a good REP and a good disconnect percentage and you will always have a good game. I played no one under 80%. I was deeply satisfied with the leagues I was in even though the rate of the completing was almost zero. People will always find ways to exploit the game. They should be penalized for using the tactic but damn, it should start with the Developers and the testers for the games. It's their fault it's in the game.
I disagree, yes you have to find ways around it, but things like the leading pass, or the Pick&roll have to be fixed because yo cannot be playing the game only thinking how to stop those two plays over and over. Also, to mes the most important aspect of the article is the fatigue, it is spot on. I think that you should increase the fatigue of a player if you are using the "turbo" trigger or the Lock on D all the time, or jumping every single time. Maybe considering the amount of times you press the buttons?
 
# 13 LETS BALL @ 10/06/08 06:36 PM
i dont play lobby games anyway..unless am goin for the achievements..
 
# 14 PaulZweber @ 10/06/08 07:33 PM
These problems sound like problems for most basketball games, and most sports games. In Madden I can run no-huddle and fatigue very little if at all. Progressive player fatigue needs to be in every sports game, where players who get beat up on, the ball ran up the middle, banging in the post, tough man defense, make a difference in the end of a game. If someone runs early, shouldn't both teams tire as they are both running the floor? If the DTs get ran at all game long, should they be 100% in the last two minutes of the fourth? This type of fatigue needs addressed, and imo would be a better option than penalizing a person for playing the game they want to play it.
 
# 15 Defense Wins Games @ 10/06/08 07:45 PM
Sounds like whining to me. Just like in a real NBA game, players and teams have to adapt to whatever the other team brings to the table. Every competitor should do what they can to win. Or they're just not competing to the best of their ability. "Sim" players cry cheese whenever someone plays too fast for them to follow. The thing is if those same "sim" players could do what the "cheeser" is able to do, they'd do it too. I've played against people that just cry all game long saying I'm cheesing and they go ahead and try to speed up their tempo and try to imitate the plays I'm making. They couldn't do it. They just ended up losing by more. If you play a so-called "cheeser" and are able to do things that were just out of this world and that he just couldn't stop, he wouldn't cry foul. He'd figure out a way around it and/or a way to stop it. For most of you "sim" players, when you encounter a wall you can't break through, you just sit there and cry about it instead of finding a way to break through the wall. For every strategy, there's a counter-strategy. Even early last year when there was that ridiculous double team+steal glitch, I just worked around it and/or used the same tactic on my opponents.

"Sim" people would prefer it if the game was slower because they can't react or think as quickly. They can't keep up in a fast-paced game. They get easily confused and agitated so they cry and whine like the 12 year olds they are. Did the Mavs whine and cry when G-State doubled and pressed for 6 games straight in the playoffs? Nope. What're you supposed to do? Just like in the game. If I don't put loads of pressure on the Spurs. He'll just pick+roll with Duncan or post-up Duncan every time down the floor. So you make him work for it. You start full court pressing. Making him rush his plays and shots. THAT'S BASKETBALL. You make it as difficult for your opponent as possible. It's not the player's fault that they're utilizing this aspect of the game. It's really the developer's fault for not making a better fatigue system.
 
# 16 uscpaperboy @ 10/06/08 08:11 PM
^^^ my thoughts exactly malone and stockton pick and rolled every play str8 to da hall of fame with nash and amare following their footsteps. Not even avery johnson or mark cuban complained and they cry bout everything.

And if this is all about fatigue. How tired do u expect a player to be when qtrs are 5 min and at least 1 timeout per qtr. if u play against someone and neither one of you call timeouts or sub check the fatigue level at the end of the 2nd and 4th. they probably wont have 100 after halftime. MAN UP AND ADJUST or just play cpu bc they NEVER push the ball or try to win under the 2:00 mark
 
# 17 stillatin @ 10/06/08 09:29 PM
all i want to say is, people need to play 5 vs 5 online, cause its the most fun i have ever had online in a sports game
 
# 18 jyoung @ 10/06/08 09:45 PM
Like the article says, the high-pressure defensive strategy is not so much itself to blame as the game engine is to blame for allowing the high-pressure defense to thrive under unrealistic circumstances.

Basically:

-- The game engine needs to make players in high-pressure defenses tire faster.

-- The game engine needs to make things easier for the offense (i.e., more realistic) when moving the ball against pressure defenses (especially with regards to the funky passing game).

That's really all that the article is trying to argue.

And if you can honestly watch the Exhibit C video and tell me that it's anything close to what happens on an NBA court, then I don't know what else to say.

I mean, I've played on high school teams that could handle pressure defense better than the average NBA 2K8 team does. And I mean that not in the sense of actual "stick skills" but in the sense of the offense's AI and animations during high-pressure situations.
 
# 19 amedawg00 @ 10/06/08 10:02 PM
I was all for the sim movement until suddenly everything under the sky was deemed cheese by "2K establishment" here at OS. Now I can't help but recall what Herm Edwards infamously said regarding his football team's mentality of "HELLO...YOU PLAAAAY TO WIN THE GAME!" If I am in a close game online and I have the rock in my superstars' hands, you better believe I will run a high percentage exploitable play such as the pick and roll if that is the difference between taking a chance winning the game in OT or putting the dagger in my opponents heart at the end of regulation .
 
# 20 secondcity t @ 10/06/08 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amedawg00
I was all for the sim movement until suddenly everything under the sky was deemed cheese by "2K establishment" here at OS. Now I can't help but recall what Herm Edwards infamously said regarding his football team's mentality of "HELLO...YOU PLAAAAY TO WIN THE GAME!" If I am in a close game online and I have the rock in my superstars' hands, you better believe I will run a high percentage exploitable play such as the pick and roll if that is the difference between taking a chance winning the game in OT or putting the dagger in my opponents heart at the end of regulation .
That my friends is the problem with online. I run with Minnesota. With my knowledge of post moves, I'm gonna give the ball to Jefferson because that is my star player, but unlike your logic, I'm not gonna cheese pass to him.

I play to win but I can also play without abusing exploits. For the most part, I disagree with most sim players about taking jumpers every time down court as I like to set my jumper up by using post moves.I can literally score every point in the paint off backdoor cuts, up and unders, and layups and make it look realistic. Watch that 3rd video and see how the ballhandler was being "sucked" into animations. Makes NO sense.
 

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