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NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

NBA 2K15's fourth patch isn't available yet on Xbox One, but PlayStation 4 and PC owners have now had a week and a half to experience its effects.

Developer Visual Concepts hasn't published an official change log (and doesn't plan to, until Xbox One users receive the update), but Gameplay Director Mike Wang has already confirmed a few changes to NBA 2K15's shooting system on the Operation Sports forums:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wang
To give some insight on the actual tuning that I made, here's essentially what happened:

I tuned the baseline [shooting] values that are shared by both human and CPU-controlled players.

The shot heuristics are pretty complex at a basic level. Pre-patch, the numbers looked something like this for a decent shooter at mid-range:

Wide open = 45%
Fully Contested = 35%
Heavily Contested = 10%

That's why many people complained that "being open" didn't really matter much, and they were right. Post-patch, that same shooter is now:

Wide open = 60%
Fully Contested = 20%
Heavily Contested = 10%

So over the course of the game, assuming both teams shoot an even spread of open and contested jumpers, you should've seen zero change to your end-of-game shot percentages when comparing pre- and post-patch. But if you trend hard one way or the other (all your shots are open or all your shots are contested), you would've seen a very noticeable change.

If both teams play solid defense, I can believe that a player might go 80% from the field from time to time, but it definitely shouldn't be the norm. Also, in case you're wondering, I didn't touch three-point percentages at all, only layup, close and mid-range values.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wang
I also fixed the "glitched" shots being unable to get perfect release, so that will factor in as well.

While both of these changes are welcome, finally being able to achieve a perfect "green" release with every shooting form in the game has caused field goal percentages to skyrocket, post-patch. The reason is that green release shots go in roughly 99% of the time in NBA 2K15, regardless of what difficulty the game is set to, or how poor the shooter's attributes are. In the estimated 200 to 300 games I've completed since October, twice is the amount of times I've seen one of my players miss a green release shot.

Both occasions occurred in MyTeam's Domination mode. The first was a wide-open corner three from "Sapphire" DeMar DeRozan (84 standing three-point rating). The other was a lightly contested post-up fadeaway from just outside the paint with Tyler Zeller (68 post fade rating).
 


Those are the only misses, out of the hundreds of green releases I've had this year. Many of the successful shots even managed to come from athletes whose shooting attributes are in the 70s and 60s. Rajon Rondo's free-throw rating, for instance, is a 63 in MyTeam, but I've had games on the hardest difficulty setting (Hall of Fame) where I was able to hit 10 of 10 from the line with Rondo, just because his shooting form is so easy to time.

The near-perfect success rate of green shots, unfortunately, cannot be changed by lowering shooting sliders. It's just something that's hard-coded into the game, and needs to be seriously reconsidered for NBA 2K16.

I've always preferred a shooting system that favors attribute ratings over release timing. And if I play NBA 2K15 offline, I can still have that experience by enabling "ratings only" shooting. But online, only one option exists: "timing-based" shooting. So if I want to play any mode in NBA 2K15 besides MyGM, MyLeague, or MyCareer, all I can do is cringe while average -- or even subpar -- shooters consistently drain buckets that extend well beyond their natural abilities, because a user has mastered the timing of players' shooting animations.

NBA 2K16 needs to move to a system where user timing has a much more subtle impact on shot success, so that a defensive, pass-first point guard like Rajon Rondo can't hit every single attempt he puts up. Instead of what's in-place now, I'd propose a system where:

  • Perfect release = The player's normal assigned shot rating.
  • Slightly early/Slightly late release = Three points deducted from the player's shooting attribute.
  • Late/Early release = Nine points deducted from the player's shooting attribute.

I'm not sure what the ideal deduction values would be, but that's definitely something Visual Concepts could certainly tweak to perfection, with a little testing.

What do you think of the shooting changes in NBA 2K15?


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Member Comments
# 101 jrose57 @ 03/27/15 01:23 AM
Guys, I now remembered that back a few months ago when I was just trying out the game, I was looking at the green release area for Derozan, he had mid-range shooting ability higher than 3pters so his green release area are a lot bigger for the mid-range area vs out on the 3pt line, so now the patch just make those green area even higher when he is in his “hot zone” area which I see the problem is we are all complaining the area has gotten TOO BIG!!! However, by lowering the USER and CPU sliders, they will affect the shooting sliders of Derozan, yes the green release area won’t change in size, but by changing the sliders, his shooting abilities got lower which means even if we get a green release, it doesn’t mean he will score, plus there is defense involved as well right, if the CPU plays good D on you, then his chance will also go lower for shooting…I am just looking for any way to solve the problem without expecting something that might not even happen – patch 5…
 
# 102 jrose57 @ 03/27/15 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruise
I thought it would be like this, but it doesn't really seem to be the case. I posted in the patch thread about the 0 slider green release bricks, but unfortunately when I bumped the slider up even one point the A+'s and swishes started coming. So there's some pretty weird behavior with the meter and the sliders going on, and just playing with the shooting sliders really low is going to result in only green shots going in, and everything else missing.

If you're a meter god it's ultimately going to be like the other guy was saying - becomes a game of whether or not you can hit a perfect release, rather than ratings.
Sorry, what is the meter thing you are talking about? (I haven't played for months so I need some reminders! )
 
# 103 The 24th Letter @ 03/27/15 01:38 AM
Anyone drop a video of the high amount of green releases yet? I remember there were plenty about the 'broken releases'...

If guys are really hitting at a 9/10 clip I think getting a video out there may push 2k to put out a hotfix
 
# 104 jrose57 @ 03/27/15 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The 24th Letter
Anyone drop a video of the high amount of green releases yet? I remember there were plenty about the 'broken releases'...

If guys are really hitting at a 9/10 clip I think getting a video out there may push 2k to put out a hotfix
Yeah good idea!
 
# 105 dxhfj @ 03/27/15 06:30 AM
I always thought 2k overfavored the random luck of the draw vs the skill of the person shooting. However I think green releases are a completely argument.
 
# 106 Luke Skywalker @ 03/27/15 08:35 AM
Decided to give the post-Patch 2K a chance on straight up Superstar/Simulation and Real Player %. I'm not a fan of the new shooting, but never played a full game (12 minute quarters). I did Nets vs Hornets, and I (Nets) lost 99-98. Realistic percentages, point in the paint was low (the defense is much better, no sliding). It was a good game. One more NBA Today game before I play MyLeague again.
 
# 107 stillfeelme @ 03/27/15 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The 24th Letter
Anyone drop a video of the high amount of green releases yet? I remember there were plenty about the 'broken releases'...

If guys are really hitting at a 9/10 clip I think getting a video out there may push 2k to put out a hotfix
Also to add to this the difficulty level and game mode Myplayer, Park Myteam, MyLeague.

I see it like this if you are playing myCareer you only have to master one release. If you were playing with a "glitched" release before you will see the dramatic difference once it is fixed. Imagine how easy it would be to shoot all game with just mastering a green release. That is why the green perfect release 100% success doesn't make sense. Depending on which mode you play effects the users differently and skill level.

User vs. CPU quick games, MyLeague or similar you have to master 5+ jump shot releases, so harder to do. I think the highest I ever received on perfect totaled for the team I had was like 10 in 12min. That was using the Mav's pre patch pre Rondo trade. I have come close to that with the Spurs. This is all on SS/sim

Dirk, Monta, Parsons, Jameer, Harris, Jefferson were all glitch free since the game came out.
 
# 108 jeebs9 @ 03/27/15 10:59 AM
The thing I hate the most is how people think if it turns green before "it should go in" (Which I hate!!). When you release a perfect shot in real life. Its not always going in.
 
# 109 RalphaNader @ 03/27/15 01:47 PM
This opened shot percentage raise adds a lot more difficulty when you plan HoF in my MC. Opposing team scores all the time cause teammates defend really poorly.
 
# 110 erickonasis @ 03/27/15 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeebs9
The thing I hate the most is how people think if it turns green before "it should go in" (Which I hate!!). When you release a perfect shot in real life. Its not always going in.
Might as well not even have it in the game then. And from what i remember you use real fg % so it wouldnt make a diff fir you anyways
 
# 111 ksuttonjr76 @ 03/27/15 03:42 PM
Big picture, it sounds like they overcompensated for the players that had broken shot forms. Instead of addressing the individual forms, they did a global increase to how easy it was to get a green release and open shot success.

Players who were unusable became usable (Chris Copeland), while players who were already usable became Godlike.
 
# 112 mgrand15 @ 03/27/15 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeebs9
The thing I hate the most is how people think if it turns green before "it should go in" (Which I hate!!). When you release a perfect shot in real life. Its not always going in.
Obviously nothing in life is 100% but when Steph Curry and Kyle Korver are on balance, do everything perfectly in their shooting, they feel like it's good - I would bet that it's going in MOST of the time. It's why Curry was able to shoot a 3 and not even look to see if it went in. Sometimes when guys are open, they don't handle the ball correctly, their lift isn't perfect, they short arm it, etc. But sometimes they do get everything perfect and it's most likely going in.

I don't mind the green releases cause of that. If they lowered it to 70-80% vs. 100% - I'd be fine with that. I think the 100% is fine as long as they make it difficult to do - and impossible to do under certain scenarios. Like on the move, while contested, with bad shooters, etc.
 
# 113 Luke Skywalker @ 03/27/15 05:21 PM
Green Release window should be small/big depending on rating. Rember the Madden Vision Cone with Awareness. If you had 99 Awareness you'd see the entire field, if you had 52 Awareness you had a small cone.

Let the shot meter difficulty be based on the player's rating so you can't always get a green release with a 75 but with Korver you can.
 
# 114 JoFri @ 03/28/15 11:09 PM
i'm in view that if,
1. i make a perfect release with any player eg. shaq shooting a 3, the chances that i make a 3 depends on the attribute rating. if shaq is rated 25 with 3-shooting, he'll probably make one out of 4 attempts.
2. i make a less perfect release, the chances of going in will be reduced further based on the % imperfect eg. slightly early, slightly late etc.
Wondering is 2k15 configured like this now?

i can live with perfect release timing without making the basket as i strive to achieve perfect release after mastering the shooting form at practice. i think this happened in 2k13 and i'm cool with it. at least i know i did something right but just that the attributes rating has caused the misfiring.
 
# 115 zrohman @ 03/28/15 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Skywalker
Green Release window should be small/big depending on rating. Rember the Madden Vision Cone with Awareness. If you had 99 Awareness you'd see the entire field, if you had 52 Awareness you had a small cone.

Let the shot meter difficulty be based on the player's rating so you can't always get a green release with a 75 but with Korver you can.
You already said this before
 
# 116 kabamaru @ 03/30/15 03:30 PM
The game has become a 3 point feast,epecially myteam. Please fix the sliders
 
# 117 thedream2k13 @ 03/30/15 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kabamaru
The game has become a 3 point feast,epecially myteam. Please fix the sliders
Myteam is on a low difficulty level sliders won't help
 
# 118 xfhsfgh @ 04/01/15 03:48 AM
user timing and shot ratings should always play a part in shot success
 
# 119 rgbnghj @ 04/28/15 04:03 AM
I always thought 2k overfavored the random luck of the draw vs the skill of the person shooting. However I think green releases are a completely argument.
 
# 120 Luke Skywalker @ 04/28/15 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrand15
Obviously nothing in life is 100% but when Steph Curry and Kyle Korver are on balance, do everything perfectly in their shooting, they feel like it's good - I would bet that it's going in MOST of the time. It's why Curry was able to shoot a 3 and not even look to see if it went in. Sometimes when guys are open, they don't handle the ball correctly, their lift isn't perfect, they short arm it, etc. But sometimes they do get everything perfect and it's most likely going in.

I don't mind the green releases cause of that. If they lowered it to 70-80% vs. 100% - I'd be fine with that. I think the 100% is fine as long as they make it difficult to do - and impossible to do under certain scenarios. Like on the move, while contested, with bad shooters, etc.
It should be ratings based. Green on a grey zone (neutral spot) would be the player's true percentage. Green on a red zone (hot spot) +5, Green on a blue zone (cold spot) -5. Late/Early release in a grey zone -5, late release in a red zone -5 (reverted to true player rating), late release in a blue zone -5 (totaling to -10, more likely to miss).
 


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