MLB 15 The Show News Post

MLB 15 The Show Player Ratings - Top Rated Players For Each Team

10:22 AM - March 6, 2015 by Steve_OS

During the latest MLB 15 The Show livestream the team showed the top rated players for each team. Check them out here and post your thoughts.

Game: MLB 15 The ShowReader Score: 9/10 - Vote Now
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# 81 nomo17k @ 03/08/15 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavicchi


	On the other hand, Hamilton may simply not be as good at stealing bases as first thought. Of course all defenses will be alert, but it still takes a throw to get that 99 speed guy. If I apply your thinking to all players, you could say so-and-so doesn't bat higher because he doesn't get pitches to hit, but we think he's a better hitter so let's give him a 99 for contact. Show me the numbers and I'm with you. I don't care what hitters or pitchers do in the minors, I care what they do in the majors. Now don't get me wrong, I realize that there has to be some basis for rookies, and the minors has to be used, but once they are in the majors, then that's what matters most to me. I'm sure the defenses in the minors knew about Hamilton, but this is the majors. With Stanton, if he's that slow, 57 speed, it shouldn't take the same kind of throw to get him out. Catchers who can throw out a speedster like Hamilton, should be able to nail a "slowpoke" like Stanton. 13-1 is pretty darn good for a 57 speed guy.

I was just making a general statement about what goes in into rating players in the area of base stealing. It wasn't even my opinion about how things should be.

I'm not gonna repeat the same argument that I've written a couple times for you already about how using minor league stats is a compromise, yet still much better compromise than rating a player based on some suggestion from someone who insists on only using MLB stats even when they are not sufficiently informative... due to lack of sample size... it's fine that's good enough for you, but we are not just discussing your preference here.

To me, a student's performance in 9th grade math class does have quite a bit of relevance to how he does in 10th grade math. And that's why many people would use that sort of information, if available.

# 82 ScouserHUN @ 03/08/15 06:11 AM

can't say I'm impressed. Ortiz became a 79 by the AllStar Break from 88 starting the season. Players should regress/progress in the offseason because this way a player who was 88 starting the season might become useless by the end of the season.

Why not progress/regress during the season based on performance +/- 5 overall and make the big jump during the offseason. Don't like this progression/regression system...

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# 83 Detroitfan4life1993 @ 03/08/15 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catswithbats


	I was just looking at the Tigers' ratings and noticed something... Why is Verlander a year older than Cabrera? They were both born in '83 (Verlander in February, Cabrera in April). Is this just because Cabrera hasn't had his birthday yet in the game? (Also the reason I bring this up is I'm 100% sure that I've seen Verlander and Cabrera both retire in the same year during the offseason in franchises of mine, and they should be the same age at that point, but Verlander is still shown as a year older.)

As you said Verlanders' birthday is in February and Cabrera's is in April. The show comes out a month before Miggy's birthday. They wouldn't be able to update Cabrera's age before the game comes out.

# 84 Mercury112491 @ 03/08/15 08:22 AM

How is Bellin Betances only an 86? That's lower than they rated him in the last update.

# 85 Cavicchi @ 03/08/15 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomo17k


	I was just making a general statement about what goes in into rating players in the area of base stealing. It wasn't even my opinion about how things should be. I'm not gonna repeat the same argument that I've written a couple times for you already about how using minor league stats is a compromise, yet still much better compromise than rating a player based on some suggestion from someone who insists on only using MLB stats even when they are not sufficiently informative... due to lack of sample size... it's fine that's good enough for you, but we are not just discussing your preference here. To me, a student's performance in 9th grade math class does have quite a bit of relevance to how he does in 10th grade math. And that's why many people would use that sort of information, if available.

I don't see the relevance of what a student does in Middle School to what a professional baseball player does in the major leagues. Hamilton played in 152 games last year, and you know his caught stealing percentage--he is not Ricky Henderson. Now he may at some point get to that stage, but as of now he is not and should be rated accordingly, and that is my opinion.

I already said minor league stats for rookies is a basis, not disputing that, but Hamilton has had a full season in the majors.

Obviously we don't agree on Hamilton.

# 86 Ghost Of The Year @ 03/08/15 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScouserHUN


	can't say I'm impressed. Ortiz became a 79 by the AllStar Break from 88 starting the season. Players should regress/progress in the offseason because this way a player who was 88 starting the season might become useless by the end of the season. Why not progress/regress during the season based on performance +/- 5 overall and make the big jump during the offseason. Don't like this progression/regression system...

In-season progression/regression should be in the game IMO, but on a much smaller scale no more than 2, 3 points maximum. Off-season 7-8 points maximum, again IMO

# 87 countryboy @ 03/08/15 11:47 AM

In season progression/regression happens based on performance and I'm 99% sure they mentioned that injuries now effect a players rating during the season. So it could be that Big Papi is injured, or got injured at some point during the year that caused his ratings to drop that significantly. Or he could be playing horribly.

# 88 ShowTyme15 @ 03/08/15 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countryboy


	In season progression/regression happens based on performance and I'm 99% sure they mentioned that injuries now effect a players rating during the season. So it could be that Big Papi is injured, or got injured at some point during the year that caused his ratings to drop that significantly. Or he could be playing horribly.

To kind of piggy back off this. Luis also mentioned regression wont have steep drop offs like the last 2 years. They also moved the age back in which a player starts to regress (I think before it was around age 34-36), He also used RA Dickey as an example of a guy in his 40's won't regress as quickly (20-30 point drop off the last 2 years) or at all if he plays well.

# 89 NDAlum @ 03/08/15 01:35 PM

Man oh man this makes me question if i'm gonna carry over my save...

# 90 ScouserHUN @ 03/08/15 02:12 PM

When they went through the teams in the last stream, there were no over 35yo players in any teams top10. Koji is another example, he is also not in RedSox top 10 players in that screenshot I had posted.

Also Big Papi is on a hot streak on that screenshot...

# 91 stlbearboy @ 03/08/15 02:29 PM

I know they use 50, 25,25 to get the ratings, but I think for young players the weight should be more towards the previous year vs prior years, especially when you are comparing against rookies. By every analytics measure Rizzo had just as good of a year or even better than Abreu but because he struggled for two years while Abreu was in Cuba, they have a 5 gap in overall.

# 92 countryboy @ 03/08/15 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScouserHUN


	When they went through the teams in the last stream, there were no over 35yo players in any teams top10. Koji is another example, he is also not in RedSox top 10 players in that screenshot I had posted. Also Big Papi is on a hot streak on that screenshot...

Maybe Koji is injured? They do have 2 MLB guys on the DL.

And while Papi is on a hot streak, we do not know what has happened prior to that screenshot.

I just think its difficult to pass judgement on the progression/regression of the game based on what is shown in a screenshot or stream, unless the devs completely breakdown why a certain player is rated the way he is rated at that time. We don't know Papi's stats, if he's injured or been injured, or what he did to get on hotstreak.

IMO, there are simply too many unknown variables at play to make hard-fast decision on how the progression/regression system is working this year.

# 93 nomo17k @ 03/08/15 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavicchi


	I don't see the relevance of what a student does in Middle School to what a professional baseball player does in the major leagues. Hamilton played in 152 games last year, and you know his caught stealing percentage--he is not Ricky Henderson. Now he may at some point get to that stage, but as of now he is not and should be rated accordingly, and that is my opinion. I already said minor league stats for rookies is a basis, not disputing that, but Hamilton has had a full season in the majors. Obviously we don't agree on Hamilton.

I wasn't making a direct analogy between math students and baseball players... that was clearly not my point. I was making an analogy though comparing people performing at slightly different level of competition within the same skill category (one group in math, another in baseball).

I'm not going to agree or disagree with you on anything, because I'm not really interested in one person's opinion in general, as doing so isn't all that meaningful in a random forum like this.

... but your comparing Hamilton to Rickey Henderson doesn't really make sense as well, as Rickey actually illustrates the point that I was making about the difficulty of quantifying base steal ability simply through stats like SB and CS.

Do you know who is ahead in career SB success rate over Rickey? Someone like Jayson Werth comes ahead of Henderson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...c_career.shtml). If you don't get this point, I don't know how it's worth having any discussion.....

# 94 Cavicchi @ 03/08/15 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomo17k


	I wasn't making a direct analogy between math students and baseball players... that was clearly not my point. I was making an analogy though comparing people performing at slightly different level of competition within the same skill category (one group in math, another in baseball). I'm not going to agree or disagree with you on anything, because I'm not really interested in one person's opinion in general, as doing so isn't all that meaningful in a random forum like this. ... but your comparing Hamilton to Rickey Henderson doesn't really make sense as well, as Rickey actually illustrates the point that I was making about the difficulty of quantifying base steal ability simply through stats like SB and CS. Do you know who is ahead in career SB success rate over Rickey? Someone like Jayson Werth comes ahead of Henderson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...c_career.shtml). If you don't get this point, I don't know how it's worth having any discussion.....

I fail to see what your comparison between Werth and Henderson proves. I said Hamilton is not Ricky Henderson, meaning, Hamilton has not proven himself to be a top-notch base stealer like Henderson.

If you feel an opinion, or my opinion, is not important, why are you continuing this discussion? You see, I'm different, I feel forum discussions are meaningful with people exchanging ideas and opinions.

# 95 Cavicchi @ 03/08/15 06:25 PM

Nomo17k,

I'll go back to what I said earlier and include a link to Hamilton's stats, fact. Hamilton should not be rated 99 for steal ability based on his record last year, his first full season in the majors. http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/...billy-hamilton

I don't believe his minor league stats should supersede what he did in the majors last year--and you obviously disagree. Now that was all established early on in our conversation. So what else is new? Nothing? Then let's move on to our separate ways.

Have a nice day!

# 96 nomo17k @ 03/08/15 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavicchi


	I fail to see what your comparison between Werth and Henderson proves. I said Hamilton is not Ricky Henderson, meaning, Hamilton has not proven himself to be a top-notch base stealer like Henderson. If you feel an opinion, or my opinion, is not important, why are you continuing this discussion? You see, I'm different, I feel forum discussions are meaningful with people exchanging ideas and opinions.

My point is that you cannot simply use SB success rate (especially when the sample is small) to rate player's innate ability to steal (does not matter who that is, Hamilton or Henderson). My example with Werth and Henderson is that just by looking at MLB SB success rate, as you seem to selectively do with Hamilton, Werth may actually be a better base stealer than Henderson. Which could be the case, if Werth is really that good and can maintain his high SB success rate after making steal attempts as frequently as Henderson did... But our "impression" (and mostly likely their skill difference) is that Henderson is indeed much better stealer than Werth is. But that doesn't necessarily translate into SB success rate, for reasons that I've mentioned.

And note that I've never really made any claim about Hamilton's ability to steal. Again, I am just making a general comment, not how Hamilton is rated specifically.

I tend to respond to whoever quote me or respond to what I write so that was just that. But I did not include your post in my original post (I'd quote if I am specifically responding to something) simply because I knew how initiating a discussion with you won't end up being meaningful. Sorry to be blunt, but that has always been the case with a couple posters here in this forum... so I now avoid chiming in these days. I will simply go back not responding to your post at all. And please understand that when I post something, it won't be in an attempt to respond to you.

I just wanted to share with others how it might not be so trivial to rate base stealer's ability from traditional stats. It was totally not directed to you, Cavicchi, and I even actually wanted to avoid this meaningless back and forth.

# 97 Cavicchi @ 03/08/15 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomo17k


	My point is that you cannot simply use SB success rate (especially when the sample is small) to rate player's innate ability to steal (does not matter who that is, Hamilton or Henderson). My example with Werth and Henderson is that just by looking at MLB SB success rate, as you seem to selectively do with Hamilton, Werth may actually be a better base stealer than Henderson. Which could be the case, if Werth is really that good and can maintain his high SB success rate after making steal attempts as frequently as Henderson did... But our "impression" (and mostly likely their skill difference) is that Henderson is indeed much better stealer than Werth is. But that doesn't necessarily translate into SB success rate, for reasons that I've mentioned. And note that I've never really made any claim about Hamilton's ability to steal. Again, I am just making a general comment, not how Hamilton is rated specifically. I tend to respond to whoever quote me or respond to what I write so that was just that. But I did not include your post in my original post (I'd quote if I am specifically responding to something) simply because I knew how initiating a discussion with you won't end up being meaningful. Sorry to be blunt, but that has always been the case with a couple posters here in this forum... so I now avoid chiming in these days. I will simply go back not responding to your post at all. And please understand that when I post something, it won't be in an attempt to respond to you. I just wanted to share with others how it might not be so trivial to rate base stealer's ability from traditional stats. It was totally not directed to you, Cavicchi, and I even actually wanted to avoid this meaningless back and forth.

When Werth steals 100 bases in a year, then we can compare him with Henderson. Hamilton had a full year in the majors last year, and I don't consider that being selective. I do consider that more important than what he did in the minors. Henderson did it in the majors, not just 100 and over steals, but his success rate over that span as well. Ricky Henderson was a 99 for steal ability, Hamilton at this point is not.

# 98 HozAndMoose @ 03/08/15 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavicchi


	When Werth steals 100 bases in a year, then we can compare him with Henderson. Hamilton had a full year in the majors last year, and I don't consider that being selective. I do consider that more important than what he did in the minors. Henderson did it in the majors, not just 100 and over steals, but his success rate over that span as well. Ricky Henderson was a 99 for steal ability, Hamilton at this point is not.

You reason for Hamilton not being a 99 was because he got caught stealing 23 times last year. Henderson got caught stealing 20+ times in 3 seasons. Including 42 time the year he stole 130. And just because Hamilton stole 165 bases in the minors doesnt really take anything away from that. Plenty of catchers in the minors have the arm strength to throw out runners.

# 99 Cavicchi @ 03/08/15 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HozAndMoose


	You reason for Hamilton not being a 99 was because he got caught stealing 23 times last year. Henderson got caught stealing 20+ times in 3 seasons. Including 42 time the year he stole 130. And just because Hamilton stole 165 bases in the minors doesnt really take anything away from that. Plenty of catchers in the minors have the arm strength to throw out runners.

You want to compare Hamilton with Henderson, great, here is a link to Henderson's record http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...enderi01.shtml

Alright now, why was Stanton more successful than Hamilton? Stanton is rated 57 for speed, about half of Hamilton's. Now the catchers who threw out Hamilton had a hard time throwing out slowpoke Stanton?

Let's go on, Henderson was caught 42 times but stole 130 bases, and he did it in the majors! Since when do we use minor league stats for players who have had a full season in the majors?

Go ahead and compare Hamilton's first full season with first full season for Henderson. You can then compare other full season's for both.

You want to use minor league stats for all players who have had a full season in the majors, one full season?

# 100 HozAndMoose @ 03/08/15 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavicchi


	You want to compare Hamilton with Henderson, great, here is a link to Henderson's record http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...enderi01.shtml Alright now, why was Stanton more successful than Hamilton? Stanton is rated 57 for speed, about half of Hamilton's. Now the catchers who threw out Hamilton had a hard time throwing out slowpoke Stanton? Let's go on, Henderson was caught 42 times but stole 130 bases, and he did it in the majors! Since when do we use minor league stats for players who have had a full season in the majors? Go ahead and compare Hamilton's first full season with first full season for Henderson. You can then compare other full season's for both. You want to use minor league stats for all players who have had a full season in the majors, one full season?

So what are you arguing? That Stanton should be faster or Hamilton's steal ability should be lower. They dont play on the same team. They dont face the same catchers every game. Hamilton plays against Molina. I have no clue what catchers are in the NL East,. But they arent as good as Molina. And its not up to the catcher alone. When Hamilton is on base. Pitchers are going to be throwing more FBs compared to win Stanton is on.

And no normally we dont use stats from the minors. But stolen bases isnt a normal argument. A player can hit .300 in the minors because the talent level of pitchers is lower. But just because you are a catcher in the minors doesnt mean its because you cant throw out a runner.

Eric Hosmer stole 16 bases in 2012 and was only caught 1 time. No way in hell his steal ability should be higher than Hamilton's.

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