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# 101
SageInfinite @ 06/28/14 05:36 PM
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# 102
hanzsomehanz @ 06/28/14 06:15 PM
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I will state however that there is more to be done in respect to proclaiming, "those days are over" so I will remain in the wait and see mode and see how they add onto these initiatives in future iterations.
For too long it has looked like a simple scattering of seeds when it comes to harvesting plans for Madden: it is time to see these value added implementations take root and flourish into extensions of the greater good.
Rex and his crew still have much ploughing and weeding out to be done in the Tiburon fields of Madden.
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Instead they created a gimmick feature that sucks you into a animation and take once the animation is determine all defender stops.
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http://youtu.be/6inZEN7YOtU
# 105
StefJoeHalt @ 06/28/14 08:27 PM
JP I really appreciate ur hope (side note hope ur child is well) but how can we as a whole believe the next wave of guys? We were told to believe the last group and the group before..let's say they have a board in their office and all the issues Madden has..how is QB Acc the first improvement over running tackling? Each group of dev have claimed sim was the goal..each also did something that had us say "wait maybe they have figured it out" but then what happens they either leave or worse stay and don't figure it out..ask ur self this question.."if Ford made a bad fleet of cars, changed CEO's several times did not improve, but continued to say we have a plan" would u believe them? The improvements I see (which graphics I see) is nothing more then a Mustang that LOOKS GREAT but the motor is terrible and has been for 10 years..how can we trust them ?
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If what they touted at E3 is working in the final copy as advertised, then maybe people will start to feel a bit more comfortable with the current team.
If things don't work as advertised, no faith at all will prevail.
# 108
StefJoeHalt @ 06/28/14 09:05 PM
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I agree kind of lol..I think they(EA as a whole) have burnt us two many times..to be clear though if this "3 year plan" does happen to work I will be the first to post a thread explaining I was wrong! Cause that is what a want a Good Game
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If the player AI reacted like NFL players, the "casual" player wouldn't have to know why they are doing it or even know they are using NFL-style responsibilities. The plays would just play out as though they would, things would work because they should, things that are likely to fail would do so for reasons the "casual" sees on Sunday, and so on.
I mean when "Joe Football Fan" sees a DB make a great pick - does he know (or care) about how DBs play coverage, why the DB got such a great jump? No, he appreciates the play (or curses, depending on how it went for his team) and is engrossed in the symphony that is NFL football.
Playing Madden could be the same way. Just like it is for The Show. The average baseball fan doesn't need to know the mechanics of why high fastballs and big 12-6 curves are nasty to hit against or how to throw them with a controller - he can put it on "Classic" pitching or "Timing" hitting (or both) and get the same experience and player ratings create a similar outcome and his eye is challenged all the same.
So if that player or someone new to football calls a 46 defense against a 4 WR set and gets burned, with the game playing like real football, he can see with his eyes what happened. If he lets the game guide his play calling, and he sees the game suggest a Nickle Cover 3 on 3-and-20, then he can start learning what plays to consider in situations.
If the game played fundamental football with player AI that also did so and an engine that expresses player skill prototypes and such, he'll see the game play more like what it does on Sunday and can use the same "general knowledge" (it's 3rd and 2 - better watch the run, etc) and have things play as they should.
It's not about video game difficulty, it's about the sport playing out. If anything, it might be EASIER because the average fan wouldn't have to "learn Madden" instead of using general football knowledge he'd probably learned/heard watching games and listening to NFL network.
If the game played fundamentally, Gore would have had to power through #27 to get the TD, which would be MORE exciting of a play and MORE fun to watch and make happen. You'd feel like you're Frank Gore plowing over some hapless defender to get a 6-yd TD like Gore has done many times in his career.
#41 wouldn't be all over the place taking himself out of a play for no reason. Once you see him shed, you could switch to him and have a better shot at taking Kaepernick down. That would be more fun than watching helplessly as he does something completely football stupid that no NFL player would do, not even the worst (because he would see why it's called the Not For Long league).
Bowman wouldn't "just trip". Instead, you'd see him lay the wood on Lynch, stuffing the play. A MORE fun thing than watching Bowman trip for no reason and not doing what he's seen Bowman do with regularity on Sunday.
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Instead, what about those who would EAT UP a game like that? Why not focus on them instead of people who might complain that the grass is too long?
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I think the reality of the situation is that in order for them to make a legit football sim, they have to scrap whatever those animations are sitting on, because we are on consoles with way more power, and players are still gliding about. They would have to redo everything, and that is just not going to happen, ever. Madden will just be a game with band-aid fixes to it's bruises. It's gotten to the point where we're almost lead to accept that something "good" in Madden is actually good, when is this day and age, it could be done 100x's better. I'm willing to bet that weight still does not matter, and that you can give a 150 lb QB, give him 99 trucking, and he will run through everyone.
Because I'm still not on board with the ps4, because the ps3 is fine with me, I'm just hoping the M15 looks and plays as good or better than NCAA 14. I see a lot of similarities when viewing these vids of M15 and playing NCAA 14. The kick off 4 example, I love NC's camera angle, and the graphics look great. So for me, unless EA drops the ball on the ps3 version of M15, I'm good with whatever changes EA makes.
# 113
StefJoeHalt @ 06/28/14 11:33 PM
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JP previous dev understood the game wasn't where it was suppose to be, they also were open were supposedly transparent, had a plan, and came here even (which was nice, and took guts)..u first line though is so true..comes down to execution..having NFL players is big IF they listen and do what these players say though..it just has all been said before..so hence the "show me stance" by many at least here..I hope to eat my words!
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# 114
hanzsomehanz @ 06/28/14 11:36 PM
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While we all see in the grand scheme what a destroy and rebuild project could accomplish: minor changes can produce major differences.
Take for example the herky-jerky animations: this could be mitigated by a *rating system that puts less "stress" on speed, agility and acceleration and allows for other secondary factors to become more pivotal in the performance of outcomes.
*Dan from FBG Ratings can speak more on how ratings affect gameplay in profound ways.
Is Madden replicating the NFL like the Show replicates the MLB?
Madden right now is built on gimmicky programmig that makes it permissable for the end-user and CPU AI to bypass the neccessary queues and processes we would see performed on NFL Sunday's.
Ball-hawk, heat-seeker, tethered passing - they all appease the casual gamer and while they also allow for warped animations: the former is more concerning to EA than the latter.
DB momentum being exaggeratingly devastated vs outs/in's and curls in off man coverage? It is there on purpose: it is there to give safe routes to the user in an effort to simulate how the average NFL QBs completes 60% of his attempted passes.
Pocket not compressing and enveloping the QB? Don't blame it on a lack of development talent - this is done by design: Madden's way of allowing QB's to casually freelance their way outside the tackles and create highlight-reels.
It should not require a preface by now but...
EA models the game after their own liking and would intentionally rather simulate the stats (end-game) and highlights than bother with articulating player performance and AI (the means) to mimic the NFL which cost more in development.
These gimmicky trappings are so pervasive they should be inherently accecpted by now as the standard culture of business as usual operations for Madden developments and they exist in an effort to coddle the casual gamer.
It is essentially part of the EA Sports - Madden business model to present the game as it is - the engine or lack of talent in departments is not to blame: credit the folks above the EA Tiburon - Madden GM's.
If there is a shift in that model and vision for how gamers play Madden then we should surely see these gimmicks shoveled out and replaced with Simulation programming that triggers thr gamer to play Football in an NFL simulated style.
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This team could be the best team in the world, but I won't jump up and down until I'm really liking what I'm playing and they have a good track record. I don't have anything against this team either, but sadly do to past Maddens and dev teams I don't give the benefit of doubt to EA.
Again this all sounds great, but let's say this team is fantastic, best team possible. What if the top EA brass said no to a full rewrite when this team asked? Maybe the team knows they can only do so much with this code base and they have a glass ceiling. We don't know if this team can really bring it and if they're fully backed by the brass like they say they are yet. This team really doesn't look like they have dropped "back of the box" features like they say they have yet (Tackle Cone and showing what plays worked online), but this is not proven at the moment.
Give me a very improved game that matches what EA says it'll be like and I'll start to believe, until then...
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There's a DB on the team and yet the interaction and contest because the WR and DB still looks pretty much the same?
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# 117
JaymeeAwesome @ 06/29/14 08:29 AM
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This. I care more about the end game rather than the journey. As long as I can lose games and be blown out sometimes and the stats equal what I see on Sunday (and Thursday and Monday), I'll be a happy man.
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# 119
MajorSupreme @ 06/29/14 02:53 PM
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# 120
hanzsomehanz @ 06/29/14 02:56 PM
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You are talking about gameplay and he is alluding he is clearly a franchise head more than a sim gameplay head.
When the Franchise news comes out he will get his information.
No need for you to always put yourself and others on the hook.
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