02:03 PM - January 24, 2012 by DieHardYankee26 News Post
02:03 PM - January 24, 2012 by DieHardYankee26MLB 12 The Show Videos
Member Comments
# 401
stealyerface @ 01/27/12 04:25 PM
See, this is the great thing about this game and about baseball in general.
We can all argue that Joey Votto will end up getting $250M in his next contract based on what Prince and Albert got, and there will be 500 guys who say they should pay him, and 500 guys who think it is too much.... Who's right? Well.... No one.
If you love to debate, and basically argue in circles, Baseball is the greatest game in the world.
When the closing pitcher allows the winning run, what differentiates between his choking, or failing at the job he is paid to do, versus the hitter who knocked in the winning run doing the job he was paid to do? Who is the hero and who is the goat? There can be no "right" answer... A lot of it has to do with fandom. If your favorite team got the hit, your guy was clutch. If the team you hate gave up the hit, the pitcher choked.
The same goes for the game, and trying to placate the masses, and make everyone happy. Personally, and I joke about this in my diatribes that I launch into on occasion, I could give a rat's bare end whether or not the sun's angle, when shining through the facade of a certain West Coast stadium, has the correct shadow color in relation to the first base foul line. I DO NOT CARE. Because I want the ball to spin correctly on a 12-6 curve ball, and I want the slider to break where it ought to when it is thrown on the outer half of the plate.
I do not care that the padding at the base of the left field wall in Tiger Stadium is the wrong shade of blue, and that the seams actually run at a 45 degree angle to the scoreboard, not 60 degrees. I mean, Seriously? But there are folks in this forum, who would feel that such a gross oversight would lend to the loss of credibility to the game. I think those folks are silly.
This is what makes the forum so fun. I want my steak, and some other guy wants the garnish next to his steak to be in the right spot when the chef plates the food.
Who is right? Both of us? Neither of us?
The debate rages on, and the developers try to walk the thin line between the Rib Eye and the Parsley.
It is the marriage of the two that makes a game "great", and honestly, something that must be a very demanding, and thankless process.
~syf
We can all argue that Joey Votto will end up getting $250M in his next contract based on what Prince and Albert got, and there will be 500 guys who say they should pay him, and 500 guys who think it is too much.... Who's right? Well.... No one.
If you love to debate, and basically argue in circles, Baseball is the greatest game in the world.
When the closing pitcher allows the winning run, what differentiates between his choking, or failing at the job he is paid to do, versus the hitter who knocked in the winning run doing the job he was paid to do? Who is the hero and who is the goat? There can be no "right" answer... A lot of it has to do with fandom. If your favorite team got the hit, your guy was clutch. If the team you hate gave up the hit, the pitcher choked.
The same goes for the game, and trying to placate the masses, and make everyone happy. Personally, and I joke about this in my diatribes that I launch into on occasion, I could give a rat's bare end whether or not the sun's angle, when shining through the facade of a certain West Coast stadium, has the correct shadow color in relation to the first base foul line. I DO NOT CARE. Because I want the ball to spin correctly on a 12-6 curve ball, and I want the slider to break where it ought to when it is thrown on the outer half of the plate.
I do not care that the padding at the base of the left field wall in Tiger Stadium is the wrong shade of blue, and that the seams actually run at a 45 degree angle to the scoreboard, not 60 degrees. I mean, Seriously? But there are folks in this forum, who would feel that such a gross oversight would lend to the loss of credibility to the game. I think those folks are silly.
This is what makes the forum so fun. I want my steak, and some other guy wants the garnish next to his steak to be in the right spot when the chef plates the food.
Who is right? Both of us? Neither of us?
The debate rages on, and the developers try to walk the thin line between the Rib Eye and the Parsley.
It is the marriage of the two that makes a game "great", and honestly, something that must be a very demanding, and thankless process.
~syf
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All it comes down to is priority and tradeoff though. We can make all suggestions we want and lament if they don't get through. The developers only have so much time and resources on their hands. They work on what they think should be their priority in order to make an appealing product that their target customer base (which includes but not necessarily exclusively us the OS members) wants.
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M.K.
Knight165
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It doesn't fall into it when it comes to seeing how the accurate the swing looks (that doesn't tie into "graphics" for me either IMO), nor does it say how the ball will react off the bat. Gameplay is at a close second.And how a game plays will always be first in my book, no matter the style it portrays. It's blasphemous to consider that second to anything.
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# 407
Dannyray64 @ 01/28/12 01:23 AM
Hey, for the guys at CD, can you confirm that collision detection is in and works well? As in the players do not clip through each other anymore? Thanks!
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I think my rant within that link will make more sense if you see it. But again, that's just how I am. Everybody is different. However, the rewritten ball physics, for me, fall into "authenticity," not gameplay... that said, I'd say authenticity is very important for me.
True story, I read beginning to this point looking for the answer. Great trailer and a definate buy first day!
# 410
stealyerface @ 01/28/12 10:03 AM
The argument of authenticity comes into greater fuzziness when, upon the realease of the 2009 version of this game, someone's first entry in the "Glitches, Issues and Problems" thread was not the fact that the baserunners morphed magically through the firstbaseman on a close play at first, not the fact that outfielders could still run through each other, and not the fact that the baserunning had issues, but instead, the fact that a piece of wall in the outfield stuck out a foot too far, and should not be considered a homerun if the ball was hit off of it...
This is where we are coming to? We are more interested in the colors of wall padding, whether Kentucky Bluegrass is really the right shade of green in an early Springtime game, and why the chalk lines look nice and fresh again in the 4th inning...
That really is more important than core gameplay issues?
I think not.
~syf
This is where we are coming to? We are more interested in the colors of wall padding, whether Kentucky Bluegrass is really the right shade of green in an early Springtime game, and why the chalk lines look nice and fresh again in the 4th inning...
That really is more important than core gameplay issues?
I think not.
~syf
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However, given different parts of the game get worked on by people with different expertise (AI is worked on by someone, animations by others, graphics by yet another, etc., etc.), I don't necessarily wish to dismiss something that I don't personally value as much as things that are unworthy or time.
If you take the number of posts in this forum as an indicator of interest, I see a great number of people do care about what can be termed as simply visual enhancement. (Not very scientific of course, and those who bring up repeatedly the same issues certainly bias this.)
When it comes to priority, I'd rather see the devs work on something like franchise mode over graphics. But these are worked on by different people at SCEA, so things like that may not be fighting for the same human resources. In that case, I may actually get to enjoy the improvements caused by those who are more attentive to things that I don't really care about. Do I really care that Shea Stadium in the Show replaces the one in real life in details? Not very much... good enough is good enough for me. But do I enjoy using the stadium in the Show and the fact that it replaces the real one rather well, due to community feedback or by the effort of designers at SCEA? Very much!
As long as those suggestions stay constructive, I think it is all good. It only becomes annoying when some users abuse/take for granted those opportunities...
# 412
stealyerface @ 01/28/12 11:36 AM
Back to the video...
Is the sneak preview something that we did NOT see versus something that we did?
~syf
Is the sneak preview something that we did NOT see versus something that we did?
~syf
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Secondly, I never said what is more important, I only said how I prioritize what drives me to buy a game. In other words, I never said that I will buy a game simply because it has great authenticity, but I will not buy a game if it doesn't have great authenticity. For example, I don't love every car in the world with manual transmission, but that's the only place I'm looking in the car department; I will not buy an automatic for myself, plain and simple, no matter how good the car is.
Again, depends on your definitions of the terms anyway. Some elements which you consider to be in the gameplay department, I consider to be in the authenticity department. I'm not arguing here, I'm correcting how my words are being twisted.
# 414
stealyerface @ 01/28/12 01:08 PM
I gotcha... I know that from the beginning of time (when we first met in here in 2004!) that you have always been on the side of the aesthetics versus substance. Not that there is anything wrong with that, and again, it is what makes the world go around.
I am of the ilk that a team of developers has some explaining to do when they concentrate on the color of the light bulbs in the light up mascot on the outfield wall, while still having players run through one another... 13 years after another baseball game had this issue taken care of...
To me, a blue outfield wall pad is a blue pad. Is it azure? Is it medium blue? Is the the EXACT same color that it is a 5pm in the stadium? I guess that is important to some folks, but is it a higher priority than Jeter batting ninth on the lineup card because "we don't program the players by their names, they are programmed based on stats"?
I say no. You might say yes, but in the end, if we both get our way, we are both happy.
No complaints here from what I have heard of this year's updates. I am quite excited to see the new physics, and see what they did with collisions in the field.
*********************
No, back to the video... I have asked for many years to have a toggleable option for what I refer to as a "Clean Screen". If we are really going with a Tru-Broadcast simulation, do I really have to see what the opposing computer pitcher's repertoire is cluttering up my screen? No. When I do some pregame scouting, I guess I know Pitcher X has a fastball, slider and a change, so looking at his pitch selection buttons for nine innings makes no sense to me.
Is it possible that during the live game shots we saw in the video, that we saw a glimpse of a clean screen in the shot?
~syf
I am of the ilk that a team of developers has some explaining to do when they concentrate on the color of the light bulbs in the light up mascot on the outfield wall, while still having players run through one another... 13 years after another baseball game had this issue taken care of...
To me, a blue outfield wall pad is a blue pad. Is it azure? Is it medium blue? Is the the EXACT same color that it is a 5pm in the stadium? I guess that is important to some folks, but is it a higher priority than Jeter batting ninth on the lineup card because "we don't program the players by their names, they are programmed based on stats"?
I say no. You might say yes, but in the end, if we both get our way, we are both happy.
No complaints here from what I have heard of this year's updates. I am quite excited to see the new physics, and see what they did with collisions in the field.
*********************
No, back to the video... I have asked for many years to have a toggleable option for what I refer to as a "Clean Screen". If we are really going with a Tru-Broadcast simulation, do I really have to see what the opposing computer pitcher's repertoire is cluttering up my screen? No. When I do some pregame scouting, I guess I know Pitcher X has a fastball, slider and a change, so looking at his pitch selection buttons for nine innings makes no sense to me.
Is it possible that during the live game shots we saw in the video, that we saw a glimpse of a clean screen in the shot?
~syf
I agree seeing the computer's pitch selection is not all that important, but throw in the pitch speeds and I'm very interested.
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"Authenticity" does not solely refer to aesthetics. As I said, it refers to replicating Major League Baseball. That means that, if Jeter is batting 9th, then it is not authentic.
For me, "gameplay" is a general term that goes widespread for every game. When something doesn't work as it's supposed to (not in expectation, but in execution), then there is a gameplay fault. If you have an incorrect home run line, that's an authenticity issue; if you have a ball go over that home run line and not be called a home run, that's a gameplay issue. If you can't tweak sliders to get realistic stats, that's also an authenticity issue; if changing the sliders doesn't affect what you are tuning, that's a gameplay issue (in other words, increasing the pitch speed slider doesn't, for some reason, increase the pitch speed).
Of course, these are my definitions. I just want to make sure that they're understood. And as I said, a game still needs to have good gameplay... but for me to buy it, it needs to be authentic to its intended source, and I need to enjoy that source enough.
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For now, I'll be set on my guess of premium themes and avatars (with those six or seven players mentioned) being available around release.
SCEA should put in a TRUE tru broadcast presentation option.
Meaning, if u pick that as an option, by default all those pre play and post play guides will be off unless a button is pressed.
now thats TBP
Meaning, if u pick that as an option, by default all those pre play and post play guides will be off unless a button is pressed.
now thats TBP
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I get it but I still think an option to remove them would be nice for those that want it removed.
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