Madden NFL 11 News Post

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

01:46 PM - January 24, 2011 by RaychelSnr

I recentely sat down for a talk with FBGRatings.com's Dan Berens to discuss his site's vision and what's going on over there today. The site is currently working on getting accurate ratings for every player using real hard data converted into the Madden ratings universe. Dan claims that when these numbers are plugged into the game, it plays much better and much closer to real life. Check out the interview below and also check out Dan's website to see what he's got going on!

Interview with Berens on the OS Radio Show on BlogTalkRadio

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Member Comments

# 1461 DCEBB2001 @ 08/09/14 10:53 PM

The answers to your questions are within this thread. I recommend reading it to get what you are looking for.

# 1462 SiNsinNatti @ 08/09/14 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NYG I use Ourlads to stay consistent. He was listed at FB as of 8/6/2014 at 6:43PM.

I was only pointing out the errors on there. Gaskin is a RB and is #46. You should check his preseason stats and also NFL.com is pretty good too.

# 1463 DCEBB2001 @ 08/09/14 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiNsinNatti


	I was only pointing out the errors on there. Gaskin is a RB and is #46. You should check his preseason stats and also NFL.com is pretty good too.

I stick with ourlads because they are consistent. When they make changes, I make changes. Normally, they only list a player once, which works great for Madden because you can only have a player listed as being at one position on the roster but multiple positions on the depth chart. If Gaskins is listed as a RB on ourlads, then I will change him to a RB on the website.

EDIT:
I want to add that if you would like to report errors, please submit to me a PM or email and not list them within this thread. The reporting of any errors is not the purpose of the thread.

# 1464 DCEBB2001 @ 08/10/14 10:35 AM

UPDATE:

All player movement and depth charts have been updated as of this morning. More updates this week. Note that most players have the +0 for their OVR change due to position changes. This will help roster creators track the position changes or changes to attributes that did not move the OVR more than 1 point.

# 1465 K_GUN @ 08/10/14 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crenk


	How do these FBG ratings work in conjunction with rookies that begin to come into the league after year one? I remember on the old PS2 madden spending a boatload of time recalibrating players by lowering their ratings (unscientifically) and then forgetting that rookies were coming in inflated in comparison to how I rated them.

it's the same...essentially only for *Play Now* games...or a CFM with only 1 year in mind...until EA allows (and they prob never will) editing the rookies, the rooks will come in inflated.....bummer

# 1466 Hooe @ 08/11/14 02:44 PM

So I finally had some time to play Madden a bit this weekend, and I spent some time messing around in a Madden 25 CFM, basically doing roster moves and simulating seasons.

I'm going to have to look into it further, but I'm not entirely convinced that that FBGratings true mean ratings are completely incompatible with CFM based on the rookies I'm seeing the game spit out. The players on the FBGratings website right now are rated on the equal interval method, thus are obviously not going to work with CFM because the OVR ratings are all over the place and that's likely going to throw the CPU contract / free agency / drafting logic for a loop (regardless how the game may play with them, I don't think that's been tested by anyone yet unless Charter04 has completed some teams). That's not faulting the way Dan is rating the players based on the scouting data, not at all; just a fundamental incompatibility.

Granted, how Madden 15 generates the random draft classes obviously will have some effect on this as to how much of this applies to this year's game, if at all. But my initial impression is that the custom-made rookies in M25 aren't rated on the same scale as the one Donny Moore uses for the base roster file.

At the very least, I wanna take some time and look at the rookies from the M25 draft classes in detail and see if the attributes come close to matching (i.e. the mean and standard deviation is close; I don't know what I define as "close" yet, though, any ideas?).

Definitions for refresher:
- FBGratings equal interval ratings: every player is graded in every field on a 0-100 scale, ignoring entirely how the game functions. This is how the website is currently rating players.
- FBGratings true mean ratings: the equal-interval ratings are scaled to better match expected values within the Madden NFL game. This is how the website was rating players earlier this summer, back in May and June.

# 1467 charter04 @ 08/11/14 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	So I finally had some time to play Madden a bit this weekend, and I spent some time messing around in a Madden 25 CFM, basically doing roster moves and simulating seasons. I'm going to have to look into it further, but I'm not entirely convinced that that FBGratings true mean ratings are completely incompatible with CFM based on the rookies I'm seeing the game spit out. The players on the FBGratings website right now are rated on the equal interval method, thus are obviously not going to work with CFM because the OVR ratings are all over the place and that's likely going to throw the CPU contract / free agency / drafting logic for a loop (regardless how the game may play with them, I don't think that's been tested by anyone yet unless Charter04 has completed some teams). That's not faulting the way Dan is rating the players based on the scouting data, not at all; just a fundamental incompatibility. Granted, how Madden 15 generates the random draft classes obviously will have some effect on this as to how much of this applies to this year's game, if at all. But my initial impression is that the custom-made rookies in M25 aren't rated on the same scale as the one Donny Moore uses for the base roster file. At the very least, I wanna take some time and look at the rookies from the M25 draft classes in detail and see if the attributes come close to matching (i.e. the mean and standard deviation is close; I don't know what I define as "close" yet, though, any ideas?). Definitions for refresher: - FBGratings equal interval ratings: every player is graded in every field on a 0-100 scale, ignoring entirely how the game functions. This is how the website is currently rating players. - FBGratings true mean ratings: the equal-interval ratings are scaled to better match expected values within the Madden NFL game. This is how the website was rating players earlier this summer, back in May and June.

I completely agree. This is what I brought up to Dan via PM.

The main reason people complain about the rookies being rated so bad is because they are being compared to stock EA ratings. If compared to ratings done in the true mean method they fit better.

I follow Matt Miller on Twitter and I'm pretty sure I remember him mentioning his work on Madden 25 rookie class ratings. He's a writer with scouting background and so maybe that explains why the rookies coming in seem to not be done by Donny Moore

# 1468 DCEBB2001 @ 08/12/14 09:55 PM

UPDATE:

All player movement is updated as of this morning's transactions and ratings changes. You will now see players who have improved or regressed based on injuries, performance, and projection. Note that a player who has changed recently will have a + or - designation on each roster list when viewed by OVR ratings.

http://www.fbgratings.com/members/vi...p?team=Packers

# 1469 charter04 @ 08/12/14 10:05 PM

I finally finished the second team with the new ratings. I'll broadcast a game soon

# 1470 SiNsinNatti @ 08/12/14 11:47 PM

Yes. Eli 71... Thank you FBG. Lol. On a serious note keep up the good work. It would be dope if the rookies generated were based on in game player ratings so these could work long term in CFM.

# 1471 charter04 @ 08/12/14 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiNsinNatti


	Yes. Eli 71... Thank you FBG. Lol. On a serious note keep up the good work. It would be dope if the rookies generated were based on in game player ratings so these could work long term in CFM.

Wow. I never actually thought of that but, let's hope that's true. I doubt it but, I can still dream. I do wonder how they are being generated as far as ratings. I really hope it's based on the rosters that are in the CFM your actually in. We can't get that lucky though right? Lol

# 1472 WingWest36 @ 08/13/14 06:52 AM

I definitely agree with charter and the rest of you guys when it comes to having the attributes adjusted based on in game player ratings. The rosters prior to the recent overhaul made me optimistic about grabbing a copy of M15. It seems as if it would be unlikely that FBG would go back to the previous rating set (before 7/30), but I still enjoy the current model based off of what I've tested.

# 1473 DCEBB2001 @ 08/13/14 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingWest36


	I definitely agree with charter and the rest of you guys when it comes to having the attributes adjusted based on in game player ratings. The rosters prior to the recent overhaul made me optimistic about grabbing a copy of M15. It seems as if it would be unlikely that FBG would go back to the previous rating set (before 7/30), but I still enjoy the current model based off of what I've tested.

Yeah the last set before this was a trial from March to July. The distribution still had way too many 99s and things like that because Madden requires inflated attributes in order to bump their OVRs. The equal-interval ratings on the site presently are probably what I am going to stick with as it requires less post-source-data alteration.

# 1474 DCEBB2001 @ 08/13/14 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiNsinNatti


	Yes. Eli 71... Thank you FBG. Lol. On a serious note keep up the good work. It would be dope if the rookies generated were based on in game player ratings so these could work long term in CFM.

Don't thank FBG - thank the scouts that bumped his ratings. I don't control what the scouting grades are, I just report the results as Madden ratings.

# 1475 DCEBB2001 @ 08/13/14 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	Wow. I never actually thought of that but, let's hope that's true. I doubt it but, I can still dream. I do wonder how they are being generated as far as ratings. I really hope it's based on the rosters that are in the CFM your actually in. We can't get that lucky though right? Lol

I haven't seen that happen yet even in the old PS2 days. Usually there are already set ranges for attributes, which would still have made the true-mean ratings off from the rookies. Madden doesn't rate all players on the same scale with the same data - they do it by position - erroneously I may add.

# 1476 Knelltone @ 08/15/14 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The interview I had, however, was in 2011, long after I took over rating players on the website and long after I started to become skeptical of EA's Madden series. I applied for the position at the request of an EA employee who found my site and recommended me to the brass at EA-Tiburon in Orlando. It was my hope that I could help change things for the better in regards to providing real data for rating Madden players. What I found out in the interview was unexpected, and I left the conversation with the developers with more of a feeling of hopelessness. Hopelessness for an improved, realistic, true-to-life, Madden-gaming experience that mimics the NFL and lives up to EA's catchy slogan. What I found instead was utter disappointment. If EA asked me to join the team today and rate players with no restrictions and threat of amendment, I would take the job in a heartbeat. Not for my own personal goals (my current day job probably pays more than EA would offer), but for the sake of the community that desperately wants a game that represents real life.

Can you elaborate on your interview and why exactly you felt "hopeless" afterwards?

# 1477 DCEBB2001 @ 08/16/14 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knelltone


	Can you elaborate on your interview and why exactly you felt "hopeless" afterwards?

You can find the answer to this earlier in the thread circa August, 2011.

# 1478 bbuf0733 @ 08/16/14 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knelltone


	Can you elaborate on your interview and why exactly you felt "hopeless" afterwards?

# 1479 bbuf0733 @ 08/16/14 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbuf0733

	The interview I had, however, was in 2011, long after I took over rating players on the website and long after I started to become skeptical of EA's Madden series. I applied for the position at the request of an EA employee who found my site and recommended me to the brass at EA-Tiburon in Orlando. It was my hope that I could help change things for the better in regards to providing real data for rating Madden players. What I found out in the interview was unexpected, and I left the conversation with the developers with more of a feeling of hopelessness. Hopelessness for an improved, realistic, true-to-life, Madden-gaming experience that mimics the NFL and lives up to EA's catchy slogan. What I found instead was utter disappointment. If EA asked me to join the team today and rate players with no restrictions and threat of amendment, I would take the job in a heartbeat. Not for my own personal goals (my current day job probably pays more than EA would offer), but for the sake of the community that desperately wants a game that represents real life.

# 1480 GoC Brian @ 08/17/14 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sword1986


	I like these rosters a lot, but they will be meaningless in CFM if we cannot edit the rookies in Madden CFM. As someone pointed out, the generated rookies will go by Donny Moore's scale and be way out of proportion. Ratings have to go with contract size too. Oh well, it'd be nice to use for the Exhibition player, a shame these rosters can't be used after year 1.

I've always wondered, shouldn't those be editable? I mean, they're just files in the game client. Couldn't they be edited similar to the roster files?

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