Madden NFL 11 News Post

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

01:46 PM - January 24, 2011 by RaychelSnr

I recentely sat down for a talk with FBGRatings.com's Dan Berens to discuss his site's vision and what's going on over there today. The site is currently working on getting accurate ratings for every player using real hard data converted into the Madden ratings universe. Dan claims that when these numbers are plugged into the game, it plays much better and much closer to real life. Check out the interview below and also check out Dan's website to see what he's got going on!

Interview with Berens on the OS Radio Show on BlogTalkRadio

Game: Madden NFL 11Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
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Madden NFL 11 Videos

Member Comments

# 1381 DCEBB2001 @ 08/03/14 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	I'm going to repeat myself from 100 posts ago: Once again, guys: let's move on.

It is getting to be borderline trolling here, and I am not the only one to notice (Charter04 mentioned it a page or two back as well). I have tried several times to make it pretty obvious that his continuation of bringing forth an argument will do nothing to advance the thread, nor do anything to change the opinions of other posters within it, despite the fact that I have been answering his questions. I appreciate the oversight from the moderators, but this is getting to be a bit ridiculous.

I will not address michiganfan8620 any further in this thread as it makes no progress in advancing the topic. If he has any further questions, he can send me a PM or a private email. I would even be willing to discuss this over the phone with him as my number is on my website and I welcome communication regarding the topic so long as it is done respectfully and appropriately.

Thank you Christopher. I will do my best to no longer feed the trolls, despite my constant willingness to defend this topic and the information it presents.

# 1382 charter04 @ 08/03/14 01:00 AM

Back to the point of the thread. I hope to get Atlanta done this week and I'll do some twitch streaming. Looking forward to it.

# 1383 DCEBB2001 @ 08/03/14 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	Back to the point of the thread. I hope to get Atlanta done this week and I'll do some twitch streaming. Looking forward to it.

Sounds good. I will be looking forward to those vids. I had a feeling you would find the equal-interval ratings interesting. They are as true to the data as I can get. BTW, all of the ratings were updated again today on the website, still in equal-interval form, so feel free to use any team you like.

# 1384 ggsimmonds @ 08/03/14 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	Back to the point of the thread. I hope to get Atlanta done this week and I'll do some twitch streaming. Looking forward to it.

Hey Charter could you archive any of that? My schedule typically does not allow me to watch it live.

There are also other things I would like to say. Your word carries a lot of weight for me. Your slider sets are my go to sets for Madden. Now if you say the gameplay is much improved using these rosters I am inclined to give it more attention. But I am strictly a CFM player and my guess is that the rosters only have value in play now games. Granted I could plug them in for use in CFM but aside from the oft mentioned draft problems, would it also throw off the simulation stats? Attributes have different effects on gameplay than they do on the simulation engine.

# 1385 charter04 @ 08/03/14 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggsimmonds


	Hey Charter could you archive any of that? My schedule typically does not allow me to watch it live. There are also other things I would like to say. Your word carries a lot of weight for me. Your slider sets are my go to sets for Madden. Now if you say the gameplay is much improved using these rosters I am inclined to give it more attention. But I am strictly a CFM player and my guess is that the rosters only have value in play now games. Granted I could plug them in for use in CFM but aside from the oft mentioned draft problems, would it also throw off the simulation stats? Attributes have different effects on gameplay than they do on the simulation engine.

Every video I stream gets automatically archived on my twitch channel I believe.

Yes I do see a pretty significant improvement in gameplay. It's still Madden though. Even rosters and sliders can't fix everything.

One thing these Equal Interval ones improve drastically v stock EA rosters is QB accuracy. I did a game with the newest EA official rosters using AP default sliders with QBA slider at 35 for both sides. I used the Cards v the Falcons. Both QB's were at 70-75% passing. Not too many bad throws.

With the same sliders I'm seeing 60-65% with the FBG rosters. Some QB's are better than others of course but, there are many more bad throws in realistic situations.

I'll post more impressions too but, I wanted to get that out there.

This is why Madden won't ever be sim out of the box IMO. You can tweak acc sliders all you want but when every starting QB in Maddens rosters has acc ratings so high it won't fully matter. I wonder if the gameplay guys realize how much easier their job could be if they had better rated players to use in the system?

# 1386 Primo80 @ 08/03/14 07:12 PM

The technique ratings are really just functions relating to other players' opposing ratings tho right? Like how CIT relates to a defender's TAK and coverage I believe. If that is how Madden calculates interactions, wouldnt it be more accurate to compare player against player to come up with stats? I know that would be a rediculous waste of time, but it just shows the rating system is IMO on life support and they need to start over with a tiered ability system for animations.

# 1387 DCEBB2001 @ 08/03/14 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primo80


	The technique ratings are really just functions relating to other players' opposing ratings tho right? Like how CIT relates to a defender's TAK and coverage I believe. If that is how Madden calculates interactions, wouldnt it be more accurate to compare player against player to come up with stats? I know that would be a rediculous waste of time, but it just shows the rating system is IMO on life support and they need to start over with a tiered ability system for animations.

I think a better approach would be to measure each player's technical skill independently and accurately so that it gives you an idea of what is predicted to happen when two players interact. Note that it isn't a guarantee that the player with the highest combination wins out, but the statistical probability goes up as the advantage increases.

# 1388 Primo80 @ 08/03/14 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	I think a better approach would be to measure each player's technical skill independently and accurately so that it gives you an idea of what is predicted to happen when two players interact. Note that it isn't a guarantee that the player with the highest combination wins out, but the statistical probability goes up as the advantage increases.

I get what you're saying, its well put. Madden doesnt seem like you are getting out the values you put in all the time, though. Its like entering an equation into a really funky calculator that doesnt reflect the rules of what you asked it to do. Football skill is less about production (compared to baseball which stats are actually meaningful) than it is about opportunity or prediction or chemistry, teamwork. If youre going to retroactively grade players to output for madden ratings, then arent you also plugging good statistics into a calculator that doesnt handle those values correctly? I guess if you then adjust sliders and tweak until you get that correct outcome percentage it would work, but that would defeat the purpose.

# 1389 Primo80 @ 08/03/14 09:06 PM

I guess a better way to say it is this. Say a player has an 80 tackle according to Donny, but you grade his tackle at a 70. How do you know that Madden's going to reliably take that difference and translate it to all aspects that the TAK rating affects? How do you know it will decrease tackle occurrance and not just take more effective tackle animations out of his reportoire?

I've read most of this thread and I get that you are trying to make players' 0-99 ratings more in line with pro scout evaluation. It could be useful in changing the way stats are simmed in a season mode for CPU players. But as far as gameplay, i feel like you'd be polishing a turd.

# 1390 RyanLaFalce @ 08/03/14 09:07 PM

Roughly how long will it take to do this?

# 1391 charter04 @ 08/03/14 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primo80


	I guess a better way to say it is this. Say a player has an 80 tackle according to Donny, but you grade his tackle at a 70. How do you know that Madden's going to reliably take that difference and translate it to all aspects that the TAK rating affects? How do you know it will decrease tackle occurrance and not just take more effective tackle animations out of his reportoire? I've read most of this thread and I get that you are trying to make players' 0-99 ratings more in line with pro scout evaluation. It could be useful in changing the way stats are simmed in a season mode for CPU players. But as far as gameplay, i feel like you'd be polishing a turd.

Just play a game and see for yourself. I understand people questioning certain things but, actually trying a game with ratings allows you to see for yourself instead of relying on hypotheticals.

One thing I've noticed as a slider maker is how many people I run into who ask me a lot of questions about a slider set before trying. It's not going to break your game to try things. Lol I have a roster that has several teams rated with FBG ratings. CM hooe has a thread too. Just give them a try in a few games and see if you think it makes a difference.

Looking forward to hearing the results

# 1392 charter04 @ 08/03/14 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanLaFalce


	Roughly how long will it take to do this?

If you help with either the xbox one version or ps4 one it will go quicker. Just look for the threads soon

# 1393 RyanLaFalce @ 08/03/14 10:22 PM

What will happen after year one of a CFM when you draft players who aren't rated with FBG?

# 1394 charter04 @ 08/03/14 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanLaFalce


	What will happen after year one of a CFM when you draft players who aren't rated with FBG?

I just sent Dan a message about this and I think his previous way before he adjusted to equal interval will actually work fine. I tested some CFM and a lot of the CFM aren't crazy high rated. They actually are better than stock madden ratings IMO.

Some of the complaints about rookies have been low agility or low acc or low speed. It's only a problem because of how high everyone is rating in the default madden rosters. I think they might fit better in these rosters.

Some sims stats might get thrown off but, I think it might work better than I previously assumed.

# 1395 charter04 @ 08/03/14 10:38 PM

It won't be as good as it would be if we could edit draft classes of corse.

# 1396 RyanLaFalce @ 08/03/14 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	It won't be as good as it would be if we could edit draft classes of corse.

Was that 100% confirmed that we can't edit draft classes?

# 1397 charter04 @ 08/03/14 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanLaFalce


	Was that 100% confirmed that we can't edit draft classes?

No. It just seems very unlikely

# 1398 Primo80 @ 08/03/14 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	Just play a game and see for yourself. I understand people questioning certain things but, actually trying a game with ratings allows you to see for yourself instead of relying on hypotheticals. One thing I've noticed as a slider maker is how many people I run into who ask me a lot of questions about a slider set before trying. It's not going to break your game to try things. Lol I have a roster that has several teams rated with FBG ratings. CM hooe has a thread too. Just give them a try in a few games and see if you think it makes a difference. Looking forward to hearing the results

So play it and dont ask questions. Damn, thats what looking at ratings all day does to you? Was looking for insight from someone who tests these things. Im interested in playing with new ratings, i guess I was asking if changing things around does exactly what you are expecting. How can you export the FBG system to the Madden system and call it the FBG system? I dont doubt it changes the way it behaves...

# 1399 charter04 @ 08/03/14 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primo80


	So play it and dont ask questions. Damn, thats what looking at ratings all day does to you? Was looking for insight from someone who tests these things. Im interested in playing with new ratings, i guess I was asking if changing things around does exactly what you are expecting. How can you export the FBG system to the Madden system and call it the FBG system? I dont doubt it changes the way it behaves...

Lol if you took my response as rude or anything you might be a little too sensitive.

Of course it's still Madden. My point is that some things are better to just try.

Also if I looked at ratings all day my wife and three kids wouldn't be too happy.

# 1400 Primo80 @ 08/03/14 11:13 PM

Nah man its just smug. Its like saying I hear your question, wont address it, but instead ill tell you to just do it my way and tell me how it was. I can pick that stuff up, yeah sensitive. But I sold my ps3 a few weeks ago so luckily im able to discuss the game with some like minded people.

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