NBA 2K11 News Post

NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

12:15 AM - June 16, 2010 by Steve_OS

Quote:


	"In a closed-door session, we got our first look at NBA2K11 earlier today at E3. Walking Chase Becotte and myself through the very brief demo was NBA2K11 producer, Eric Boenisch. The major announcement is the removal of Isomotion controls. Although a staple in the series and a well-received feature, the NBA2K11 team felt Isomotion was too limited. However, there�s no word just yet on what new dribbling scheme will take its place in NBA2K11."

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# 101 youvalss @ 06/17/10 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeebs9


	I still feel there should be some few delays. I don't think people shouldn't be able to cancel moves "med" move. Animations should finish. Not be canceled in the middle of a move. I think that is stupid. No one dribbles like that in real life.

I agree, but if you add momentum it might work. Meaning, you cancel an animation in the middle - but your player keeps the momentum a bit, not going all the way the the new animation. You can still cancel animations, but your player won't start the new animations perfectly, even though he can move from one animation to another - in the middle of it.

# 102 TalenT @ 06/17/10 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youvalss


	I agree, but if you add momentum it might work. Meaning, you cancel an animation in the middle - but your player keeps the momentum a bit, not going all the way the the new animation. You can still cancel animations, but your player won't start the new animations perfectly, even though he can move from one animation to another - in the middle of it.

This would be perfect. It's impossible for them to eliminate all delay and make it look good at the same time. That's the area I think Live/Elite suffers. The controls are great but, it looks super choppy at times.

On another note, THEY BETTER NOT TOUCH THE SHOT STICK! :-D

# 103 SacKings1999 @ 06/17/10 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	What up Sac Kings I agree and disagree with some of your logic and I think we may actually be more on the same page than not....

Da Czar- huge fan of your videos, thanks for the reply! I agree with mostly everything you wrote, so I think we're definitely on the same page, I just didn't qualify my praise for 2k7 haha. I also don't like how you can stop on a dime, and then immediately be at full speed again. After playing 2k10, there is so much in 2k7 that is pure arcade... but I still enjoy the responsiveness.

I also realize the run and gun track meet has already been done in the mid 90s with NBA Jam, haha, that's not at all what I want. Just some of the dribble animations in 2k10 are really undesirable and make the game feel sluggish at times (getting hung up on invisible players, invisible force fields that make your player bump and slow down, etc...).

You're probably right, 2k didn't purposely take control out; but for whatever reason there are a lot of times in 2k10 where I don't feel in control of my dribbling.

Quote:


	I think the best solution is the most responsiveness we can have minus any player control issues with the addition of realistic momentum will yield a ballhandling system that is fun realistic and physically accurate.

No one can argue with that

# 104 jeebs9 @ 06/17/10 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalenT


	This would be perfect. It's impossible for them to eliminate all delay and make it look good at the same time. That's the area I think Live/Elite suffers. The controls are great but, it looks super choppy at times. On another note, THEY BETTER NOT TOUCH THE SHOT STICK! :-D

The idea sounds ok to me. To me only certain animations should be able to cancel at certain times. I don't want to see people canceling out of a spin move. Thats not phyiscal possible. Big moves shouldn't be able to cancel (like the behind the back). They can only be chained to another move after the animation is finish.

Moves like this...Its pretty hard to see in this reel. But its the clip with Westbrook.

If anyone notices I'm not a big fan of getting rid of isomotion...Kind of feel sad....haha...I'm going to play the **** out of 2k10 (if I haven't already...Hasn't really come out of my system since a week before release day...yea I know..its bad)

# 105 Pared @ 06/17/10 04:27 PM

They better not have made it exactly like 2k7's system.

2k7's response was wonderful... but not exactly realistic. There needs to be some happy medium.

All those longing for control like that... it was cool back in the day. Hopefully both games are moving towards punishing the user for throwing the sticks around like a monkey with actual consequence...

Until we see that, these games will never emulate what they are trying to achieve properly.

# 106 SacKings1999 @ 06/17/10 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	2k7's response was wonderful... but not exactly realistic. There needs to be some happy medium. Hopefully both games are moving towards punishing the user for throwing the sticks around like a monkey with actual consequence...

Agreed. I think that happy medium is the holy grail that is so hard to capture in a video game. I have high hopes for 2k11 though, I think the dev team has heard our complaints.

# 107 J_Posse @ 06/17/10 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	They better not have made it exactly like 2k7's system. 2k7's response was wonderful... but not exactly realistic. There needs to be some happy medium. All those longing for control like that... it was cool back in the day. Hopefully both games are moving towards punishing the user for throwing the sticks around like a monkey with actual consequence... Until we see that, these games will never emulate what they are trying to achieve properly.

Over dribbling should be punished by having the player lose the ball or travel. The defense should also be able to make to offensive player pick up their dribble as a counter to excessive dribbling.

They've had the right ideas in the last couple iterations, I just think it's very difficult to implement everything while pleasing everyone. The also need to implement blocking fouls on the perimeter for pressing too often on defense.

# 108 Aces15 @ 06/17/10 06:33 PM

I think this whole philosophy of more control HAS to do away with lock-on defense. I have hated that ever since it was introduced in 2K8, and I've yet to see it done well in either Live or 2K.

What made the one-on-one game so fun in 2K7 was that it was just you and your man. You got into your defensive stance and you actually played defense on him. Sure it wasn't perfect since like others have said it might have allowed for "too much" responsiveness.

Regardless, the way 2K7 handled defense was something that still sticks out to me as something I've been longing for in a game ever since.

And to add onto that, to do away with the lock-on defense would probably mean to get rid of A LOT of skating around and moments where you completely lose control.

I just hope the same focus they are putting into the offensive side of the ball in terms of control is translated to the defensive side of the ball.

# 109 Da_Czar @ 06/17/10 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SacKings1999


	I also realize the run and gun track meet has already been done in the mid 90s with NBA Jam, haha, that's not at all what I want. Just some of the dribble animations in 2k10 are really undesirable and make the game feel sluggish at times (getting hung up on invisible players, invisible force fields that make your player bump and slow down, etc...).

I'm right there with you that must be addressed.

@ Pared that's the next level there. A combination of what Jeeb's was saying with your comment about throwing the stick like a monkey. If tried to break out of something that physically can't be broken out of there is a penalty. Lord that would be something to see. You try a double cross but your timing is off and the ball hits your knee or something like that.... Maybe that could be a way to separate between levels also. Instead of super human AI you need to display more precise moves with the rock.

# 110 Pared @ 06/17/10 06:50 PM

Fingers crossed Czar.

# 111 jordankobewade7 @ 06/17/10 07:03 PM

Great news,bcuz imo this is all 2k has been lacking...if they add in a bunch of dribble animations,like say,25-30 per category(crossover,hesitation,step back,etc) along with the control on the right stick..it will be on another level,literally.with the dribbling in 2k10 its random and u pray it works. Plus ur repeating the same moves about 1000x per game you play. Just imagining being able to precisely conrtol everything I want to do in 2k,along with the variety of animations and ways to do these moves is crazy.having the moves vary from player to player and situation to situation to where every moment seems fresh is just amazing. Quite simply its exactly what 2k is missing,and I've been calling for it ever since 2k10. We need shotstick to be toggled on/off by the right or left trigger so we can activate it on the fly when needed,and have it off when we don't. Just think how many possessions will be saved per season by deactivating the shortstick when we don't need it. Can we say no more heaves from full court after inbounding in a close game or otherwise???? REVOLUTION!

Check out my arena and 2k11 wishlist,tell me what u think! Thx!

# 112 jordankobewade7 @ 06/17/10 07:19 PM

Also,just came to mind...they need to fix the pivoting and pre-dribble moves...everytime u jab and attempt to shoot u take two steps without dribbling before you shoot.that's a travel!cmon 2k,every bball player that's played organized ball knows u cannot lift ur planted foot until the ball hits the floor..also, the pre-dribble options are very limited.I should be able to hold the ball behind me or extend the ball out palmed in one hand ala mj or tmac,or bring it down and around or up and around ala kobe.many players shoot out of these types of moves,or begin their attack starting with them,so this needs to be in.

# 113 Kaanyr Vhok @ 06/17/10 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reptilexcq


	Please bring back the speed of NBA 2K7....I been saying this since NBA2K8 came out, the game is never the same without the speed of NBA 2k7. It is just not realistic. I don't care if you want to make it a sim but can't you speed up the game and still make it a sim??? All you did was slow down the game but that ain't fun. The developers have never attempted to do what i suggested which is maintain the speed of NBA2k7 and make it a sim. If you can do that...it will be a PERFECT GAME!! NBA2k7 is so responsive and you feel like you're in control of the player and do what you want it to do. You just feel in total control of the game and not some gimmick due to lack of response or delay in commands like they did with the previous versions. I always say that if they come out with 2K7.5, it WILL SELL!!

They brought back the speed in 2k9. The jogging in 2k10 is still too fast.

# 114 Pitfighter87 @ 06/18/10 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopeismarcus


	from 2k admin ron: "I don't want to speak for the devs here because the Insights will do that in the coming weeks/months, but if I am not mistake, "No Isomotion" isn't entirely correct. It's simply that we're going to be giving users more overall control and feel while dribbling. I don't know about you, but one of the things I have been least a fan of in NBA is not feeling like the dribbling is intuitive to what I am doing with my controller at all times. I think there's going to be a huge focus on changing that this year and making it all about reacting to what you want to do. But I'll let the devs speak to that as we move along. And by "changing" I mean advancing/focusing, not overhauling. "

This i can live with.But right stick moves......no sir.Like i said in another post this is what i was hopen for just better response not an entire overhaul of Lives,excuse me,NBA Elites cheese system.This makes me feel better

# 115 bearschicago @ 06/18/10 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaanyr Vhok


	They brought back the speed in 2k9. The jogging in 2k10 is still too fast.

Exactly. Turbo is still too fast. For example going around the defender is the same speed as going right at the defender. Physically impossible.

Big guys like Z/Yao still jump too high and cover too much ground. That also needs to be toned down. One simple way is to make the court bigger/wider and the players a bit smaller for more realism.

# 116 Kaanyr Vhok @ 06/18/10 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearschicago


	Exactly. Turbo is still too fast. For example going around the defender is the same speed as going right at the defender. Physically impossible. Big guys like Z/Yao still jump too high and cover too much ground. That also needs to be toned down. One simple way is to make the court bigger/wider and the players a bit smaller for more realism.

That more of an issue with the slow defensive stance that doesnt give ground well and the lack of momentum at full speed. Top speeds are pretty accurate.

# 117 bearschicago @ 06/18/10 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaanyr Vhok


	That more of an issue with the slow defensive stance that doesnt give ground well and the lack of momentum at full speed. Top speeds are pretty accurate.

This is what I'm talking about:

# 118 jeebs9 @ 06/18/10 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitfighter87


	This i can live with.But right stick moves......no sir.Like i said in another post this is what i was hopen for just better response not an entire overhaul of Lives,excuse me,NBA Elites cheese system.This makes me feel better

Thanks I didn't even see that post by Ronnie.....That makes me feel a little better. From one of the interviews at E3 the guy made it like they were making more like their pitching system for Baseball game. Where each dribble move would have a chain of commands before the move executed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearschicago


	Exactly. Turbo is still too fast. For example going around the defender is the same speed as going right at the defender. Physically impossible. Big guys like Z/Yao still jump too high and cover too much ground. That also needs to be toned down. One simple way is to make the court bigger/wider and the players a bit smaller for more realism.

The court size is pretty ok. I wouldn't know how to handle that situation.

# 119 SeaNNyT @ 06/18/10 03:34 PM

Hopefully they get rid of the shot stick, it seemed so unnecessary. I always just used the face button to shoot anyways.

# 120 youngfaze01 @ 06/18/10 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaNNyT


	Hopefully they get rid of the shot stick, it seemed so unnecessary. I always just used the face button to shoot anyways.

Disagree.

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