News Post

Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

11:26 AM - September 8, 2009 by RaychelSnr

Like a lot of sports fans, I have spent time getting to know the “popular girl” of sports gaming, EA’s Madden 10.

What probably separates my experience from most is that, as someone who has yet to buy an EA football game this generation, I’m usually content with a rental of the latest Madden or NCAA Football. I'm usually content because a weekend of play tends to be enough time for me to realize that the game is still way behind my old flame, All-Pro Football 2K8, in the one area that matters most: gameplay.

This time around I spent more than one weekend with the game, but now that I have had some time to get a feel for the game, here are some reasons why I feel Madden 10 still can't match up to the standards set by my reigning king of gameplay, All-Pro Football 2K8.

Read More - Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Game: All-Pro Football 2K8Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 57 - View All

Member Comments

# 81 Radja @ 09/13/09 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	While I agree, I'm really starting to get into Madden 10 despite some of the issues. I do need to test what I have against other opponents though (my boy sucks lol). I talked with MS and they assured me next week so I can't wait to get back into the swing of things. With a good patch the game will be that much more enjoyable. Tombsong bring your A game. Remember Saturday and Sunday mornins.

right now, that game needs to be patched for the single player. the dump off pass on the almost sacks is ridiculous. it is a teaser game right now. there are little things that are great and little things that are not great. it just kills the realism.

playing the raiders with the chargers, i "sacked" jamarcus about 5 times in the first half. only one of them was a sack. the others allowed them to keep the down and distance the same and allowed them to convert a couple third downs a lot easier. in the end, all i could think was why play this until it's patched?

# 82 RogueHominid @ 09/13/09 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radja


	right now, that game needs to be patched for the single player. the dump off pass on the almost sacks is ridiculous. it is a teaser game right now. there are little things that are great and little things that are not great. it just kills the realism. playing the raiders with the chargers, i "sacked" jamarcus about 5 times in the first half. only one of them was a sack. the others allowed them to keep the down and distance the same and allowed them to convert a couple third downs a lot easier. in the end, all i could think was why play this until it's patched?

Agreed about the user vs. CPU experience. The way the QB looks for the HB at the last second is ridiculously prescient.

If you play vs. HUM opponents, though, especially ones from here, it's quite a good experience. You should come on over and join the ACBQ M10 league

# 83 elgreazy1 @ 09/14/09 09:20 AM

Here's something I've been doing with my offline franchise to make them more fun: Creating Legends ala APF. In Franchise mode, eventually everyone becomes a CAP or Generic player due to NFL players retiring, new rookies etc, so I began using past NFL players in place of high-rated draft picks.

After each draft I scroll through the Rookies and rename (and edit) any rookie with an 80+ OVR to the name of a past NFL player. For instance, the Chiefs drafted a speedy OLB so I renamed him from Generic Name to Dedrick Thomas, #58 & edited his equipment to either look like Derrick Thomas or to mimic what DT would look like in modern equipment.

I've done the same with a lot of players: Troy Aiken (Troy Aikman), Craig Lloyd (Greg Lloyd), Jake Smith (Jackie Smith), Kris Carter (Cris Carter), Gary Little (Larry Little), Rodney Lott (Ronnie Lott), Bryce Smith (Bruce Smith). This, to me, has taken the game to another level because now instead of facing no-name players, I'm facing a guy who I know how he plays & what to expect. So where I would play the Bears & know Urlacher was patrolling the middle, I also will face Demond Saunders on team X & know he's a ball-hawking, shut-down CB instead of wondering why Generic James at CB is such a beast.

Try it out, yeah, it takes a couple minutes to go through, find & edit said rookies but it make the game alot more fun. Years down into my various franchises it makes it fun to see said player atop the league leaders & such and actually recognizing the names.

# 84 LBzrule @ 09/14/09 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radja


	right now, that game needs to be patched for the single player. the dump off pass on the almost sacks is ridiculous. it is a teaser game right now. there are little things that are great and little things that are not great. it just kills the realism. playing the raiders with the chargers, i "sacked" jamarcus about 5 times in the first half. only one of them was a sack. the others allowed them to keep the down and distance the same and allowed them to convert a couple third downs a lot easier. in the end, all i could think was why play this until it's patched?

Indeed it needs to be patched. But it's not just the QB's sixth sense that's the problem. The WR's should not be even aware he is throwing the ball. That's the thing that is irritating me. I can get pressure but this bastard slings it down the field to a WR who is not looking but he catches it anyway. WEAK!!

# 85 teambayern @ 09/17/09 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	Indeed it needs to be patched. But it's not just the QB's sixth sense that's the problem. The WR's should not be even aware he is throwing the ball. That's the thing that is irritating me. I can get pressure but this bastard slings it down the field to a WR who is not looking but he catches it anyway. WEAK!!

Same with the CB's. APF didn't do this particularly well either, but in Madden you can run something like a streak or double route, where the CB is hauling *** with his back turned just to catch up. Yet as you throw it, his spidey senses kick in and he immediately turns and pursues the ball instead of doing the desperate run-toward-the-wr-with-my-hands-up move we see all the time in Sundays. I think that's the main reason deep throws are so easily batted/intercepted: the DB's get a lot of time to move in front of it with none of the confusion that would normally come from guarding a man while keeping an eye on the qb directly behind you.

# 86 CreatineKasey @ 09/17/09 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teambayern


	Same with the CB's. APF didn't do this particularly well either, but in Madden you can run something like a streak or double route, where the CB is hauling *** with his back turned just to catch up. Yet as you throw it, his spidey senses kick in and he immediately turns and pursues the ball instead of doing the desperate run-toward-the-wr-with-my-hands-up move we see all the time in Sundays. I think that's the main reason deep throws are so easily batted/intercepted: the DB's get a lot of time to move in front of it with none of the confusion that would normally come from guarding a man while keeping an eye on the qb directly behind you.

I also think the ball trajectory and ball speeds are weird in Madden. In APF the balls felt authentic when thrown. They seemed to move is if people were throwing them, even the lobs. In M10 the lobs just look kinda silly to me, and seem to flutter in the air maybe more than a throw like that would in real life. Also, I have trouble effectively throwing a ball for your WR to run under. They love to give CB's a chance out there

# 87 slickdtc @ 09/17/09 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	I also think the ball trajectory and ball speeds are weird in Madden. In APF the balls felt authentic when thrown. They seemed to move is if people were throwing them, even the lobs. In M10 the lobs just look kinda silly to me, and seem to flutter in the air maybe more than a throw like that would in real life. Also, I have trouble effectively throwing a ball for your WR to run under. They love to give CB's a chance out there

Extremely noticeable to me. Maybe the people who only play the Madden series are used to it, but after playing APF2k8 and seeing the great trajectories, it's hard to even stand those ridiculous mile high throws. I hardly ever lob the ball, it doesn't seem to be worth it.

# 88 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/17/09 01:13 PM

There's one thing in Madden that absolutely burns my oil.

The worst throw you can make in Madden is the downfield, one on one throw to a reciever vs. a zone defender.

Logic would say, "throw this pass", but what you will see, is a LB, who is beat by a good 2-3 yards by a receiver, be able to bat the ball down, or the pass you throw, leading the reciever into the DB for a INT.

# 89 RogueHominid @ 09/17/09 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportyguyfl31


	There's one thing in Madden that absolutely burns my oil. The worst throw you can make in Madden is the downfield, one on one throw to a reciever vs. a zone defender. Logic would say, "throw this pass", but what you will see, is a LB, who is beat by a good 2-3 yards by a receiver, be able to bat the ball down, or the pass you throw, leading the reciever into the DB for a INT.

This is the one throw type I haven't totally gotten yet either. I can throw every route in the game and enjoy the way it works so long as the matchups are right, but the vertical game is still stumping me a bit.

I've seen guys lob balls up to singled-up WR and TE and get some really nice completions, and I've gotten a few myself, but I haven't figured out when to release the ball in the route and with what kind of touch to get a reasonably consistent result.

I don't think deep passes should be easy, but I think I should be able to figure out how to wing it so that Jamarcus will put the ball out there to be run under. I feel like you have to know just when in the vertical route to do that. Too early and the QB will throw it like it's a super deep stop pattern, allowing the DB to make a play when he shouldn't be able to.

Tips on when's the right time to let 'er rip on those patterns?

# 90 ANDROMADA 1 @ 09/17/09 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportyguyfl31


	There's one thing in Madden that absolutely burns my oil. The worst throw you can make in Madden is the downfield, one on one throw to a reciever vs. a zone defender. Logic would say, "throw this pass", but what you will see, is a LB, who is beat by a good 2-3 yards by a receiver, be able to bat the ball down, or the pass you throw, leading the reciever into the DB for a INT.

I see I am not the only one that noticed this....

# 91 ANDROMADA 1 @ 09/17/09 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind


	This is the one throw type I haven't totally gotten yet either. I can throw every route in the game and enjoy the way it works so long as the matchups are right, but the vertical game is still stumping me a bit. I've seen guys lob balls up to singled-up WR and TE and get some really nice completions, and I've gotten a few myself, but I haven't figured out when to release the ball in the route and with what kind of touch to get a reasonably consistent result. I don't think deep passes should be easy, but I think I should be able to figure out how to wing it so that Jamarcus will put the ball out there to be run under. I feel like you have to know just when in the vertical route to do that. Too early and the QB will throw it like it's a super deep stop pattern, allowing the DB to make a play when he shouldn't be able to. Tips on when's the right time to let 'er rip on those patterns?

We should set up thread to discuss this to make it more effective...I feel it is a league wide problem for most users.

# 92 RogueHominid @ 09/17/09 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANDROMADA 1


	[/b] We should set up thread to discuss this to make it more effective...I feel it is a league wide problem for most users.

Yes, and lab it. I feel like there's a stem point in the route, before which you will throw a stop essentially, right into the coverage, and after which you will throw a proper go down the field, which then will depend on your QB deep accuracy as it should.

# 93 jyoung @ 09/17/09 02:31 PM

The only way to complete a deep ball in this game is to have your guy outrun the defender by enough steps that the defender can't do the superhuman "swat + tackle" animation on you and break up the play.

If you try to throw a jump ball, the CPU just uses its superhuman abilities to turn around and run to the exact spot on the field where they can jump up in the air and intercept the ball at its highest point.

# 94 Valdarez @ 09/17/09 03:24 PM

Madden's defense is completely unrealistic in the passing game. It's had instant turn of direction for their DBs forever, and the warping is has historically been horrible (can't speak for 10 yet). They still haven't fixed the instant direction change in Madden 10 this year, they just changed the animation. DBs still run full speed one direction and now do a little circle loop (instead of just siwtching direction) and are going full speed again. It's completely unrealistic. I think Madden's momentum, speed, attribute system is so messed up they won't ever be able to make it truly sim/authentic with the current engine.

# 95 Valdarez @ 09/17/09 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wEEman33


	The only way to complete a deep ball in this game is to have your guy outrun the defender by enough steps that the defender can't do the superhuman "swat + tackle" animation on you and break up the play. If you try to throw a jump ball, the CPU just uses its superhuman abilities to turn around and run to the exact spot on the field where they can jump up in the air and intercept the ball at its highest point.

If you manually catch it, does that help at all? Or does the swat always negate the manual catch? I hardly ever throw streaks, unless in a hail mary / losing scenario where I'm forced to do it.

# 96 jyoung @ 09/17/09 04:25 PM

There must be a trick or something to the manual catching 'cause I'm horrible at it in Madden.

Everytime I press the catch button, my guy just does the stupid "over the shoulder catch" animation.

# 97 CreatineKasey @ 09/17/09 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wEEman33


	There must be a trick or something to the manual catching 'cause I'm horrible at it in Madden. Everytime I press the catch button, my guy just does the stupid "over the shoulder catch" animation.

Well... I know there's 2 ways to catch it. You can press and hold Y for the safe catch (maybe what you are doing) and you can tap Y to go for the spectacular, or more aggressive catch.

I've spent some time in the lab, and I have yet to see zone defenses really worked by a deep 25+ yard throw.

# 98 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/17/09 05:15 PM

Manual catching helps with the downfield throws.

Minh does this, and he is usually able to pull down 1 a game..if he can get into position.

I understand why they did it: They wanted to negate the rocket catch, strafe catch exploit of the past, but ended up actually punishing people who do not force the ball, by making one on one throws, a roll of the dice.

Casey and I played a game last night, with a total of 6 interceptions. Only 2, were a result of a stupid throw.

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