Madden 2010 News Post

Whew - PRO-TAK is Much Better Now

06:12 PM - June 6, 2009 by Ian_Cummings

I was a bit concerned with the E3 build (like most of you probably were) that were a lot of times where defenders would just bounce off instead of wrapping up. I am happy to say it is much improved...just played a full game against Donny (I was Vikings, he was Cardinals - he killed me BTW), and it was WAY better ... much more predictable and reliable than the E3 build.

I dug deeper to see what happened and found out that before E3 there was some tuning being done to dictate when gang tackles could be triggered, and the primary criteria was the angle of the ballcarrier in relation to the ground. Meaning, if a player was about to fall / touch the ground, he shouldn't be able to be gang tackled (obviously because he would warp back to upright). Apparently there were a few bugs in this calculation though, so often times it would think he was leaned over when in fact he wasn't. Now it has been tuned much more appropriately, and the gang tackles are really looking great.

As a side note, the momentum in PRO-TAK is also much more pronounced as well (and also finally doesn't stop when the players engage...it keeps moving throughout the tackle) Both Beanie Wells and Peterson really felt like they were carrying those first 2 defenders when they had a head of steam...which looked and felt great. Unfortunately I don't have vids but I'll try to get some soon.

Thought you'd like the update...on to looking at everyone's other favorite issue - the pass rush!

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Member Comments

# 101 Valdarez @ 06/07/09 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk


	#4 - I saw alot of runs broken to the outside with rb's flat out beating LB's all day to the sideline once they got around a tackle. Guys like Ray Lewis should be sideline to sideline players who can get there consistently. Are the MLB's just not fast enough in this game to get out there to stop that from being abused online or in the game?

Novel worth material, if in length only. This is one of the reasons there should be catch up speed at some level in the game. There is, it's just not by default. Catch up speed is triggered by the adapative AI I believe.

One of the silliest things you can do in Madden is grab a fast HB, do a run to the outside, break it for a clean break away and then circle the field with all of the guys chasing you. I lapped the field a couple of times (250+ yards) and never got tackled once just to see if it could be done. Needless to say this could never happen in real life. A lot of this is persuit angles, but a lot of it is speed issues as well.

# 102 NYyankz225 @ 06/07/09 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	One of the silliest things you can do in Madden is grab a fast HB, do a run to the outside, break it for a clean break away and then circle the field with all of the guys chasing you. I lapped the field a couple of times (250+ yards) and never got tackled once just to see if it could be done. Needless to say this could never happen in real life. A lot of this is persuit angles, but a lot of it is speed issues as well.

Come on man stop spreading bull****. That's absolutely impossible on any decent difficulty. That's the stuff you see by people with no lives who edit ratings and play on Rookie just to prove 2k5 is their lord and savior. You're better than that. I understand your gripes with Madden but saying something like this is just laughable.

I can say with 100% certainty that that is impossible on All Pro or All Madden difficulties with standard ratings. If you post a video proving that you can do that (and no, don't post one of the doctored videos on youtube) I'll buy you a copy of the game.

# 103 Da Bears @ 06/07/09 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squint


	Nice comment considering it wasn't in the subject line of the thread so you shouldn't expect it to be addressed in it. You could always have Option B: Developers who don't take community input, release a subpar game, and still sell millions of copies in the process. Rinse and repeat. This game is light years ahead of where it has been. Be thankful for what you do have.....or you could simply cut out the middle man and not buy the game.

Thanks for your input.I'll keep that in mind.

# 104 deltroy @ 06/07/09 11:50 AM

Welcome back Ian I wanna say thank you I still can't get over how much you guys did in one year I love all the new animations and catching on stride looks fantastic, oh and another a huge thank you for online franchise that is huge man. Just remember most of us on these boards just want the same as you and your staff and that is the best Madden game ever, and I think I speak for most of us on here when I say glad your the man leading the charge keep up the great work and I hope you get your much needed vacation soon thanks again bro

MADDEN 10 GOTY!!!

# 105 Candyman5 @ 06/07/09 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA


	I was a bit concerned with the E3 build (like most of you probably were) that were a lot of times where defenders would just bounce off instead of wrapping up. I am happy to say it is much improved...just played a full game against Donny (I was Vikings, he was Cardinals - he killed me BTW), and it was WAY better ... much more predictable and reliable than the E3 build. I dug deeper to see what happened and found out that before E3 there was some tuning being done to dictate when gang tackles could be triggered, and the primary criteria was the angle of the ballcarrier in relation to the ground. Meaning, if a player was about to fall / touch the ground, he shouldn't be able to be gang tackled (obviously because he would warp back to upright). Apparently there were a few bugs in this calculation though, so often times it would think he was leaned over when in fact he wasn't. Now it has been tuned much more appropriately, and the gang tackles are really looking great. As a side note, the momentum in PRO-TAK is also much more pronounced as well (and also finally doesn't stop when the players engage...it keeps moving throughout the tackle) Both Beanie Wells and Peterson really felt like they were carrying those first 2 defenders when they had a head of steam...which looked and felt great. Unfortunately I don't have vids but I'll try to get some soon. Thought you'd like the update...on to looking at everyone's other favorite issue - the pass rush!

O man, thats awsome and all but I got excited when you said Vikings. But there is no video.

# 106 roadman @ 06/07/09 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	Novel worth material, if in length only. This is one of the reasons there should be catch up speed at some level in the game. There is, it's just not by default. Catch up speed is triggered by the adapative AI I believe. One of the silliest things you can do in Madden is grab a fast HB, do a run to the outside, break it for a clean break away and then circle the field with all of the guys chasing you. I lapped the field a couple of times (250+ yards) and never got tackled once just to see if it could be done. Needless to say this could never happen in real life. A lot of this is persuit angles, but a lot of it is speed issues as well.

Sorry, I tried this last night with Jordy Nelson on 09 on All-Pro on a kick return. I didn't go backwards too far at all before being tackled.

# 107 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun styles


	NO NO NO....and um, HELL NO! There is no "catch up speed" in real life, so there shouldn't be any in this game. If you want to stop outside runs, your DL should not allow the end to be sealed, and your LBs should flow to the ball and take good tackling angles. NO MORE CHEATING SPEED. EVER!

I wouldn't say no categorically here. The speed ratings are supposed to be based on 40 times, but they do not account for lateral movement. How else can they account for an aging Ray Lewis vs Chris Johnson on a swing pass? In real life Ray cut him off and blew him up. In Madden however, Johnson easily beats Lewis to the corner and runs up the field (this happened in the CD build actually and it was Lewis but the back was Lawrence Maroney; Lewis just couldn't get out on the swing pass. I was like ummmm we got a problem). They do not have a closing speed rating/attribute, so they have to account for it somewhere or else swing passes with fast HB's would be money.

# 108 KyGamerLT @ 06/07/09 12:46 PM

LB do you know if they will fix the sweeps to the right? The sweeps on that side are still going back to far.

# 109 Valdarez @ 06/07/09 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun styles


	NO NO NO....and um, HELL NO! There is no "catch up speed" in real life, so there shouldn't be any in this game. If you want to stop outside runs, your DL should not allow the end to be sealed, and your LBs should flow to the ball and take good tackling angles. NO MORE CHEATING SPEED. EVER!

It's already in the game. Kicks in with the adaptive AI. Odds are it's there as the difficulty level increases as well though I haven't seen/heard Ian specifically say that's the case.

# 110 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun styles


	I bet a million dollars that it wasn't that simple. If Chris Johnson had a clean run at the edge, and the end was sealed, Ray would have had to give some ground in order to tackle him. I'm willing to bet, though, that Chris was not running full tilt toward the sideline. He may have had to change directions or stutter step. This would give Ray time to catch up. I could tell you why Ray caught him if you posted the video. But one thing I GUARANTEE: It wasn't because Ray had some superhuman "catch up" speed. The speed cheat is the NUMBER ONE SIM KILLER. It should not be allowed to return in ANY FORM.

You are talking about running plays, I'm talking about a swing pass to the back in the flats. It was as simple as I described and in the CD build it wasn't just Lewis. Most MLB's had trouble getting out there on swing passes. That's one reason why I asked them to back them the hell up. So they can take a better angle on the swing passes and not be too far out of position to make the tackle. To really make sure swing passes are not easy gimmie plays like NCAA 2009, they need to have the MLB's/ILB's get a quick boost to at least be out there in the vicinity as the back is receiving the ball, since it is not something they account for by just having 1 speed rating.

# 111 Valdarez @ 06/07/09 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYyankz225


	Come on man stop spreading bull****. That's absolutely impossible on any decent difficulty. That's the stuff you see by people with no lives who edit ratings and play on Rookie just to prove 2k5 is their lord and savior. You're better than that. I understand your gripes with Madden but saying something like this is just laughable. I can say with 100% certainty that that is impossible on All Pro or All Madden difficulties with standard ratings. If you post a video proving that you can do that (and no, don't post one of the doctored videos on youtube) I'll buy you a copy of the game.

It's very doable. I was playing my Madden difficulty setting, so not sure what all the sliders were at, but they were at least All Pro for Running. Once you break away clean the AI just follows, they don't take smart paths towards the player. You can run a circle if you use the whole field. I can say with 100% certainty this is possible. As long as your player is faster than the other players, they can't catch up.

# 112 Valdarez @ 06/07/09 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Sorry, I tried this last night with Jordy Nelson on 09 on All-Pro on a kick return. I didn't go backwards too far at all before being tackled.

I did it after I broke away clean for the TD, I turned at the 10 yard line or so, ran back the other direction, all the way back to my end zone. So I didn't start circling until I had a clean break away for a TD. That's the difference. Without smart tackling angles and no catchup speed, it's going to happen.

# 113 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyGamerLT


	LB do you know if they will fix the sweeps to the right? The sweeps on that side are still going back to far.

I ran it to the left and it worked out fine, but not to the right. I'll ask about it.

# 114 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun styles


	There are a couple of ways to fix this problem WITHOUT resorting to the dreaded SPEED CHEAT. First off, no one catches swing passes at full sprint. That's a pass that requires you to turn and adjust to make the catch. That gives the defense time to catch up. Second, I agree that the LBs should not be right on top of the DL. They should have a few yards of space to operate in. Third, give ground. The LBs should be using good angles and be willing to give up 5 yards to make a tackle rather than giving up 50 yards going for the killshot. This should also be in their ratings. A crappy LB should occasionally get beat for taking a bad angle. Fourth, is anticipation. We have adaptive AI now. If Lewis knows you like to throw swings on 3rd and short, he should be waiting on it. This is so much of what makes Ray great. He sees things BEFORE they happen. Please let the speed cheat die. As long as it's in the game, outside runs will be crap, it will be impossible to run after the catch against the CPU, and the game will generally not produce realistic play results.

Hey, I can agree with these. But with regard to #1 I can see guys complaining about their offensive player having to slow down. Also in relation to this one, QB's do not throw these passes with a lot of velocity on them either so that might also help. Finally, I also think it has to do with the physics too. If the RB had to plant, cut and turn up the field then that would slow his speed down some. Ok you convinced me, we don't need the speed cheat, as long as other elements are implemented and are working properly.

# 115 lolfalconsbeatu @ 06/07/09 01:39 PM

Ian is really on top of things I see...

But can I get any official quote on if the physics of rocket catching have been altered

Not a deal breaker for me (how could it be with how great the game looks)...but just something I've been inquired about since the end of '09...

Anyhow, great job at E3, love the vids, and you have my 60 cash...

...well i actually paid credit, but you got it..

# 116 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolfalconsbeatu


	Ian is really on top of things I see... But can I get any official quote on if the physics of rocket catching have been altered Not a deal breaker for me (how could it be with how great the game looks)...but just something I've been inquired about since the end of '09... Anyhow, great job at E3, love the vids, and you have my 60 cash... ...well i actually paid credit, but you got it..

The only thing people can say is what they were or were not able to do. All EA is going to say is they worked their best to remove that and to their knowledge it is out. For all of us that have played the game, CD and people at E3, no one has been able to do it. Nobody. Now does that mean that somebody out there is not going to play around and try to find a way to do it? Nope, there are no guarantees that people are not going to find a way. But at this point everything seems great, with nobody being able to do it. But of course give people time, like 4 days and 10 hours a day of play and I'm sure somebody is going to find something

I hope not though. We'll see.

# 117 ch46647 @ 06/07/09 01:56 PM

LBZ what is your take on the passing game when you played?

1. Are the velocity of the throws back to where you think they should be?
2. Is the touch passing up to where you think it should be?
3. Could you tell a big difference between the different QB's in terms of accuracy?
4. Could you squeeze a pass in between the LB's and safeties with a touch pass?
5. Whats your general opinon of Madden 10's passing game? (I thought 09 was pretty bad IMO)

EDIT: Could you throw accurate passes off your back foot and on the run on a consistant basis? (I did see a few examples of this in the E3 videos and I am hoping it was just because of the low difficulty settings)

Thanks!

# 118 urlacher51 @ 06/07/09 01:56 PM

What worries me from the E3 vids ive seen so far, the front four dont get any pressure on the QB

. Did anyone else see this too?

# 119 lolfalconsbeatu @ 06/07/09 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	The only thing people can say is what they were or were not able to do. All EA is going to say is they worked their best to remove that and to their knowledge it is out. For all of us that have played the game, CD and people at E3, no one has been able to do it. Nobody. Now does that mean that somebody out there is not going to play around and try to find a way to do it? Nope, there are no guarantees that people are not going to find a way. But at this point everything seems great, with nobody being able to do it. But of course give people time, like 4 days and 10 hours a day of play and I'm sure somebody is going to find something I hope not though. We'll see.

yeah i hear that--but coming from a CD member is great to hear...

I realized EA, and Ian kinda shied away from talking about the touchy topic of Rocket Catching -- and I figured something would change, or be altered to make the physics more realistic because Ian's number 1 goal this year was delivering "Authentic Sim", and him being a madden gamer himself, makes us feel like he's one of us, and realizes our concerns and major issues...

but like I said, coming from a person that has actually played a early build of it -- ill take that, and it looks like ill have to wait like that first week before anyone truly knows...

Thanks for the info tho!!

# 120 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ch46647


	LBZ what is your take on the passing game when you played? 1. Are the velocity of the throws back to where you think they should be? 2. Is the touch passing up to where you think it should be? 3. Could you tell a big difference between the different QB's in terms of accuracy? 4. Could you squeeze a pass in between the LB's and safeties with a touch pass? 5. Whats your general opinon of Madden 10's passing game? (I thought 09 was pretty bad IMO) Thanks!

Here was my CD take. http://www.operationsports.com/LBzru...y-impressions/

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