Madden 2010 News Post

Whew - PRO-TAK is Much Better Now

06:12 PM - June 6, 2009 by Ian_Cummings

I was a bit concerned with the E3 build (like most of you probably were) that were a lot of times where defenders would just bounce off instead of wrapping up. I am happy to say it is much improved...just played a full game against Donny (I was Vikings, he was Cardinals - he killed me BTW), and it was WAY better ... much more predictable and reliable than the E3 build.

I dug deeper to see what happened and found out that before E3 there was some tuning being done to dictate when gang tackles could be triggered, and the primary criteria was the angle of the ballcarrier in relation to the ground. Meaning, if a player was about to fall / touch the ground, he shouldn't be able to be gang tackled (obviously because he would warp back to upright). Apparently there were a few bugs in this calculation though, so often times it would think he was leaned over when in fact he wasn't. Now it has been tuned much more appropriately, and the gang tackles are really looking great.

As a side note, the momentum in PRO-TAK is also much more pronounced as well (and also finally doesn't stop when the players engage...it keeps moving throughout the tackle) Both Beanie Wells and Peterson really felt like they were carrying those first 2 defenders when they had a head of steam...which looked and felt great. Unfortunately I don't have vids but I'll try to get some soon.

Thought you'd like the update...on to looking at everyone's other favorite issue - the pass rush!

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Member Comments

# 121 ch46647 @ 06/07/09 02:05 PM

AWESOME!! That was a great read LBZ you are the man! Do you have any more of those blogs?

# 122 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolfalconsbeatu


	yeah i hear that--but coming from a CD member is great to hear... I realized EA, and Ian kinda shied away from talking about the touchy topic of Rocket Catching -- and I figured something would change, or be altered to make the physics more realistic because Ian's number 1 goal this year was delivering "Authentic Sim", and him being a madden gamer himself, makes us feel like he's one of us, and realizes our concerns and major issues... but like I said, coming from a person that has actually played a early build of it -- ill take that, and it looks like ill have to wait like that first week before anyone truly knows... Thanks for the info tho!!

I think one of the reasons why it was hard to do in the CD build was due to tighter physics. I think they've had to scale back a little since then because of pursuit issues. But as Ian posted, they've tightened the physics again, so that is refreshing. As long as they are able to keep the physics tight and not have any pursuit bugs and to me I'd like to see more jostling down the field, if they have that, then I think the RC will be something difficult to pull off.

# 123 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ch46647


	AWESOME!! That was a great read LBZ you are the man! Do you have any more of those blogs?

Nahhh, but I'm going to do one when the game comes out. From CD to Release will be the title I think. I'll just focus on what I think has changed, for better or worse. I hope the guys at E3 start talking about playbooks soon. I can't wait to talk about some things

I already have a blog ready to roll for a certain defense

# 124 ch46647 @ 06/07/09 02:08 PM

Where did Ian say it has been tightened since the E3 build? I must have missed that..

# 125 ch46647 @ 06/07/09 02:11 PM

Good to hear LBZ, the playbooks looked almost identical to 09 from the E3 videos. I am a Baltimore guy as well so I hope they have done a lot to the defense!

Im praying that this is the year I can play great defense and field position football and be a very competitive Madden player! I want to build my team from the defensive side of the field

# 126 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ch46647


	Where did Ian say it has been tightened since the E3 build? I must have missed that..

Here it is: locomotion, momentum, and acceleration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA


	Locomotion, momentum, acceleration, etc is all still being worked on so once we get locked in I'll do my best to let everyone know how it panned out (positive and negative). Though the game was more 'weighted' at community day than it is now, it was also the primary cause towards all of our broken gameplay (600+ rush yards per game with fast players, easy money 100% completions on curls and slants, etc). I am still definitely happy with the strides taken this year. Every single person felt the changes immediately at E3...and that was a great goal to reach. Just so you all know, compared to the build at community day, as of right now the turn rates are about 4% tighter, and acceleration/deceleration are about 8% faster. The direction change animations (they are still there) were trimmed to be about 7% shorter. Even with us having to slightly back away from the CD values to help fix all of our AI issues, I just thought it would help to compare the current Madden 10 values against Madden 09.. Turn rates = 46% wider than 09 Acceleration/Deceleration = 32% slower than 09 Direction change animations = can't compare, there really weren't any in 09 I am honestly the most concerned with the actual bugs at this point where players blip around and face the other direction without having to cut or slow down and follow ANY laws of momentum...it is a much more rare occurrence now but it is still happening (mostly with blockers). Momentum is still very important to me though - we are doing our best to balance the game to not have money plays and AI issues while still keeping that "SIM" feel at the fore-front. Will update soon.

# 127 Valdarez @ 06/07/09 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun styles


	Here's the quote Val, uncut and in it's entirety. If this list is still true, this will be a great game. If Ian broke his word then this game will be a shadow of it's true potential.

Ok, then it's not for skill levels, I wasn't sure on those, but I do know in one interview Ian said there is speed alterations with the adaptive AI. I personally don't see this as a bad thing. How else is the game supposed to get more difficult if you don't alter all the ratings, including speed?

# 128 LBzrule @ 06/07/09 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ch46647


	Good to hear LBZ, the playbooks looked almost identical to 09 from the E3 videos. I am a Baltimore guy as well so I hope they have done a lot to the defense! Im praying that this is the year I can play great defense and field position football and be a very competitive Madden player! I want to build my team from the defensive side of the field

I know we should have 3 new defenses in our book. One is shared by a few other teams. As adem pointed out in the run blocking video. Ware is down in a 3 point stance, but it is the 3-4 defense. They are calling it Predator. I can't say the other two just yet, but we share these two with only 1 other team. I wonder if they will do a blog on it.

# 129 Da Bears @ 06/07/09 02:17 PM

Nice blog LB.

# 130 lolfalconsbeatu @ 06/07/09 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	I think one of the reasons why it was hard to do in the CD build was due to tighter physics. I think they've had to scale back a little since then because of pursuit issues. But as Ian posted, they've tightened the physics again, so that is refreshing. As long as they are able to keep the physics tight and not have any pursuit bugs and to me I'd like to see more jostling down the field, if they have that, then I think the RC will be something difficult to pull off.

Well, like you, I also hope the physics stay tight, and they find a 'medium' to fix the pursuit issues, as well was RCing...

And yeah, jostling down field would make it really difficult to pull of a RC, because most of the time, RC is done using a 5-7 yard hitch (curl), or 5-7 year out route, so if the DB's got physical at the line, it would really be difficult for the user to quickly take control of the WR and perform the RC.

Im assuming the technology just isnt there yet, but if the DB could manage to jump with the WR on a RC, and attempt to jar the ball loose or take out the knees when the WR is in the air, the 'spectacular catch' would be fine, and there wouldnt be a such thing as 'Rocket Catch', it just the simple fact that the WR is literally turning on a dime, like "hey look what i've found", and the DB just keeps fading back, and often misses the tackle after the catch has been made..

really frustrating situation if u ask me...

# 131 Blueblood53 @ 06/07/09 02:30 PM

Great news, Ian.

Looking forward to being able to play Online Franchise this year!

# 132 Bump101 @ 06/07/09 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA


	Locomotion, momentum, acceleration, etc is all still being worked on so once we get locked in I'll do my best to let everyone know how it panned out (positive and negative). Though the game was more 'weighted' at community day than it is now, it was also the primary cause towards all of our broken gameplay (600+ rush yards per game with fast players, easy money 100% completions on curls and slants, etc). I am still definitely happy with the strides taken this year. Every single person felt the changes immediately at E3...and that was a great goal to reach. Just so you all know, compared to the build at community day, as of right now the turn rates are about 4% tighter, and acceleration/deceleration are about 8% faster. The direction change animations (they are still there) were trimmed to be about 7% shorter. Even with us having to slightly back away from the CD values to help fix all of our AI issues, I just thought it would help to compare the current Madden 10 values against Madden 09.. Turn rates = 46% wider than 09 Acceleration/Deceleration = 32% slower than 09 Direction change animations = can't compare, there really weren't any in 09 I am honestly the most concerned with the actual bugs at this point where players blip around and face the other direction without having to cut or slow down and follow ANY laws of momentum...it is a much more rare occurrence now but it is still happening (mostly with blockers). Momentum is still very important to me though - we are doing our best to balance the game to not have money plays and AI issues while still keeping that "SIM" feel at the fore-front. Will update soon.

If you you guys can get the halftime(play by play commentating during the halftime show) and weekly wrap up show(actual highlights being shown)right, and can fix the momentum thing that has plagued madden since whenever, this will be the best football game ever made.

# 133 vannwolfhawk @ 06/07/09 03:06 PM

I never said anything about catch up speed, but if Ray Lewis is sprinting to the sideline and barely gets there or is late getting there to meet Chris Johnson then there is a problem. I think guys like Ray Lewis, Urlacher, Willis, etc. should be the exceptions because they are all animals and play sideline to sideline but if Chris Johnson gets a step then it's already over. I'm not saying catch up speed but lateral movement should be a rating and the LB's speed for at least these guys should be higher than your normal MLB and not off of a 40 time.

Speaking of 40 time, ever here of something as game speed. I am a coach and there are kids all the time that are slow as hell, but once they hit the field or court they have that intangible which is game speed. Even though they ran a horrible 40 they were the quickest and best on the field... So what does the 40 time mean? Quickness maybe but speed? What needs to factor in is... Speed, quickness, lateral movement, reaction, awareness, play recognition, etc... The thing is if they say AI is better now and Ray Lewis will read the offense and react that doesn't do me any good if I'm him and playing with him and I read play but still can't beat Chris Johnson running straight for him if he has a 99 in speed and hits the corner. Watch the videos from E3. You can see how fast RB gets to outside and once they beat the defense it's a TD every time. Even Ian posted awhile ago that guys with 88 speed were consistently breaking long td runs when the EA guys play eachother. I like that occassionaly but not all the time with guys of low caliber. Not realistic. There needs to be a happy medium.

Also, as I posted before about D-line and big guys like Albert Haynesworth should be able to be a gamechanger! I know they are trying to differentiate the superstars with lowering ratings but lets not lower them to much. But we do need to have strength moves, smim moves Left and Right, along with swim moves on the Right analog stick to break a block animation at anytime to plug a hole, gap, etc. with either a D-lineman, or linebacker. We need to be able to shed blocks quicker and let defense play a bigger role in this game. Defense wins championships! We always change the offense but rarely make improvements on defense. I love the offensive changes don't get me wrong but we need more defense! I realize that shedding blocks and using your swim moves, spins, power moves, etc would depend on OL strength and blocking ability compared to Dlineman's but he can keep pushing us one way while we are still shedding assuming that we didn't get free off of our spin move...

Following me?

We need to be able to want to pick a DL as a player to be if we so choose and be able to do something with him. I see playing Ngata, J. Williams, Haynesworth, Umenyiora, J. Tuck, Peppers, C. Hampton, etc... and changing a game with them! Make this happen please!

D, D, D, DEFENSE! D, D, D, DEFENSE!

"If it's in the game, it's in the game!"

Thanks for listening! And again, Great job Ian and crew, just throwing out some stuff and some constructive critisicm. I know you guys work hard. Read earlier post on page # 10 in this thread for other ideas... THX!

# 134 vannwolfhawk @ 06/07/09 03:28 PM

1 more thing...

DLineman should have individual ratings such as what i stated before with, swim moves, spin moves, power moves, run stuffing, speed rushing from edge, power, pass rushing strength, shedding blocks, player requires consistent double teaming, etc.

So guys like D. Freeney will have speed rushing as well as a high spin move rating but that is basically it. C. Hampton will have high power moves, strength, and run stuffing abilities. Guys like old M. Strahan would have it all... This would add to the defensive line play and make it realistic. I realize that this might be something for madden 11 though?! Each player (DL) should have individual ratings...

What do you guys think?

# 135 KyGamerLT @ 06/07/09 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk


	1 more thing... DLineman should have individual ratings such as what i stated before with, swim moves, spin moves, power moves, run stuffing, speed rushing from edge, power, pass rushing strength, shedding blocks, player requires consistent double teaming, etc. So guys like D. Freeney will have speed rushing as well as a high spin move rating but that is basically it. C. Hampton will have high power moves, strength, and run stuffing abilities. Guys like old M. Strahan would have it all... This would add to the defensive line play and make it realistic. I realize that this might be something for madden 11 though?! Each player (DL) should have individual ratings... What do you guys think?

Finesse/Power move basically fits all that you named into 2 ratings saving space.

# 136 Valdarez @ 06/07/09 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun styles


	If the physics work properly, and guys are taking the correct angles, you should not need to cheat. Is there a speed cheat in the real NFL? No. Well then how come no one just runs the sweep all day? Because there are many ways to stop it without being superhuman. Run support assignments need to work. Momentum needs to work for both the ball carrier and the defender. You can't catch a pass or take a pitch without slowing down to secure the ball. That gives the defense a step or two to catch up. Difficulty should be increased by making the LBs recognize the play more quickly, pursue more efficiently, and make use of their DL and the sideline to funnel ball carriers to them. The DL needs to penetrate weaker blockers, set the edge, and cut off the rushing lanes. That's how real football works.

Ratings are ratings. To get the items you suggested to work you're altering ratings. All of which make the game less realistic because players are playing above their ability in one area or another. If you're going to allow unrealistic ratings for the other skills then why prejudice against speed? From my perspective, it's all the same. Ratings are ratings, and skills are skills. Once you start mucking around with the skill ratings to make the game more difficult, it's no longer realistic, so why introduce an unnecessary artificial constraint on how that difficulty is increased?

# 137 vannwolfhawk @ 06/07/09 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun styles


	Better to mess around with ratings than to mess around with physics. The adjustments should be to how smart the players are, and how good their technique is, not how strong or fast they are. That's the difference.

Agreed! Game speed doesn't always equal out to 40 times... all the above is a factor as well...

# 138 mikeacard @ 06/08/09 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	I know we should have 3 new defenses in our book. One is shared by a few other teams. As adem pointed out in the run blocking video. Ware is down in a 3 point stance, but it is the 3-4 defense. They are calling it Predator. I can't say the other two just yet, but we share these two with only 1 other team. I wonder if they will do a blog on it.

i am optimistic about the jets chances of being the other team.

# 139 njd.aitken @ 06/08/09 09:18 PM

More good news for Madden, I hope they don't blow it like they always do.

# 140 mars85042 @ 06/08/09 09:28 PM

Thanks for all the hard work, I can't wait for the finished product!

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